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Old 01-09-2011, 08:41 PM   #1201
Krang
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ej207 v8 vf37

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedalrabadi View Post
ok but what about the piston/rod choice which is best STD size most suited for our v8 ej207 ?
Clark already told u, since you dont trust machine shops locally, it would be unwise to even attempt to replace such things because machining is always something you might need to do.

Best answer: leave it stock
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:53 PM   #1202
MConte05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan23 View Post
I love how people just dole out advice without a clue. Do you even have an oil temp gauge in your car? Have you ever auto-x'd a Subaru with an oil temp gauge and monitored your oil temps? I have.

I run an external oil cooler and have zero problems getting my oil temps in to the normal operating range. Buy a thermostatically controlled sandwich plate! I let my car warm up for 10 mins, drive ~1.5 miles in first/second gear (sub 3000 RPM) to the highway and by that time I'm sitting around 75~80 Celsius for oil temps, warmed up.

With that said:

I'm a firm believer in an external oil cooler on any EJ. The rod bearings on these motors are narrow and the oil capacity isn't that great. It doesn't take much work to raise the oil temp up, lower the oil viscosity and potentially spin a bearing. Go buy a quality oil temp gauge, drive your car spirited and watch the oil temps. It will open your eyes. When you've seen enough, come reference this list:

- Mocal thermostatic controlled 20mm sandwich plate $85
- 10 FT of -8an $25
- Two 1/2" ORB fittings for the sandwich plate $20
- Two -8 45's off the sandwich plate, two -8 90's off the cooler $30
- Setrab oil cooler core. I run a 619 core, (11 1/4 inches, 2 inches deep, and 5 3/4 inches high) You can find them on Ebay for anywhere from $50-$200. Fits between my A/C condenser and FMIC.

So for well under $400, you could put together a quality oil cooler kit. It's cheap insurance for an expensive engine. I sit around 80-85C on cruise, and if I'm pushing it on a twisty backroad, I can get it up to 100C. Maybe on the circuit I could push it up to 110C but my cooler keeps temps in check.

Ryan
Even if the Spec-C has the sandwich plate, would you say I should get the Mocal one anyways?
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:21 PM   #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan23 View Post
I love how people just dole out advice without a clue. Do you even have an oil temp gauge in your car? Have you ever auto-x'd a Subaru with an oil temp gauge and monitored your oil temps? I have.

I run an external oil cooler and have zero problems getting my oil temps in to the normal operating range. Buy a thermostatically controlled sandwich plate! I let my car warm up for 10 mins, drive ~1.5 miles in first/second gear (sub 3000 RPM) to the highway and by that time I'm sitting around 75~80 Celsius for oil temps, warmed up.

With that said:

I'm a firm believer in an external oil cooler on any EJ. The rod bearings on these motors are narrow and the oil capacity isn't that great. It doesn't take much work to raise the oil temp up, lower the oil viscosity and potentially spin a bearing. Go buy a quality oil temp gauge, drive your car spirited and watch the oil temps. It will open your eyes. When you've seen enough, come reference this list:

- Mocal thermostatic controlled 20mm sandwich plate $85
- 10 FT of -8an $25
- Two 1/2" ORB fittings for the sandwich plate $20
- Two -8 45's off the sandwich plate, two -8 90's off the cooler $30
- Setrab oil cooler core. I run a 619 core, (11 1/4 inches, 2 inches deep, and 5 3/4 inches high) You can find them on Ebay for anywhere from $50-$200. Fits between my A/C condenser and FMIC.

So for well under $400, you could put together a quality oil cooler kit. It's cheap insurance for an expensive engine. I sit around 80-85C on cruise, and if I'm pushing it on a twisty backroad, I can get it up to 100C. Maybe on the circuit I could push it up to 110C but my cooler keeps temps in check.

Ryan


Actually i'm quite aware of my oil temps during autox condtions. You still don't NEED an external cooler, especially for DD conditions. If that were the case, the factory would have installed the on all v7/v8 variants. I do agree that it is good extra insurance but would benefit more for road race conditions or if you live drive in extreme heat like AZ summers.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:58 PM   #1204
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Yeah.. Kinda pointless on a standard V7 or V8 unless its raced on the track. Mikes car has a Closed deck block and oil cooled turbo so an oil cooler really helped keep this water, and oil temps down.

I never liked the oil thermostats. They open and divert oil to the cooler. Be carefull not to add a big huge cooler to these engines. The oil system is very lacking as it as and putting a big core will only exacerbate the problem. Never run one with an oil pressure gauge tapped into one of the galleys. There is lots of pressure fade up near redline.

C
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:04 PM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krang View Post
Clark already told u, since you dont trust machine shops locally, it would be unwise to even attempt to replace such things because machining is always something you might need to do.

Best answer: leave it stock
not even STD size where i don't have to do any machining ?
but even how
after consulting with my mechanic he told me that swapping pistons and rods with an after market forged ones should be no problem . . .
he advised me with CP for pistons and manely for rods
then clark was like CP isn't the best choice but corrilo rods are
so what would be the best choice for pistons?
and best rods to go along with them ?
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:14 PM   #1206
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and what's the best CR i should be aiming at ?
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:48 PM   #1207
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This guy is determined to Screw up his motor. Just let him be guys.. He is going to take a perfectly good motor and toss some crappy piston slapping, oil burning, Smoking pistons and some rods he does not need into that motor

C
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:19 AM   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Even if the Spec-C has the sandwich plate, would you say I should get the Mocal one anyways?
The standard STi has the sandwich plate, not just Spec C. The only EJ20's I've seen (in Japan) without a sandwich plate have been the EJ205s. I use the stock sandwich plate to space the cooler out on mine. I still run the stock coolant lines through it as it helps initially heat the oil up.

Ryan
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:39 AM   #1209
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The standard Sti has an oil radiator then?
There's confusion, as people want to use "oil cooler" for both the OEM oil to coolant heat exchanger, as well as for the S204 oil to air heat exchanger.
The air exchanger "radiator", would need a pick-up that the S204 has, in the form of a sandwhich.

Idealy, this would be installed above (closer to the block) the oil-to-coolant cooler, if you retain both.

I always wanted to know if the factory's choice, in the case of the S204, was to retain the oil-to-coolant, as it has warming up of the oil properties.

My teory about the S204 was that it probably has a special "combo" sandwhich that in one unit is both an oil to coolant exchanger, as well as has a thermostat and connections for a radiator.

I gave up on the oil radiator, because at the track, I didn't see oil temperatures over 105 Celsius.

This got me suspicious and I started googling to find ANY car owner that complains about high oil temperatures.

Interestingly, the people that come up right away are German owners of BMW M3 that after doing triple digit speeds for extended durations of time, feel that the cooler that those cars have is too small.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:41 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
This guy is determined to Screw up his motor. Just let him be guys.. He is going to take a perfectly good motor and toss some crappy piston slapping, oil burning, Smoking pistons and some rods he does not need into that motor

C
thanks for the concern man
but that's totally the opposite of what i'm trying to do clark, all i want is something to last better that my stocks we have pretty sh***Y gas and even worse ecu flashers man . . . i'm just trying to have the least weak points possible in my build and as every one was telling me that the a good piston/rod is way to do it .
but as you are trying to tell me the stock pistons are rods are more than capable of handling that much of power of a rotated GT30R, then i don't need to do so
wasting money over peace of mind knowing i have better than stock ones is not a problem and i thought that was the case, but if that's gana be a bad move for the build and it's gana be worse,then i don't need that headache
i just want to run that big turbo with not more than 20 psi in some occasions only without feeling sorry over i got cheap pistons and rods and they ruined the motor
i know subaru jdm motors are great that's why i got one i just want to build it and have no weak links in it that's all
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:46 PM   #1211
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If you want to build the block then get a JDM 2.2 Stroker kit for the EJ207. Tommy K, HKS, JUN, ECT... Otherwise, There is not one reason to go into the motor. I have run those motors with 30 and 35Rs with nitrous spraying ontop and they hold up fine.

Put some Kelford 207 Cams into the motor and leave it alone.

Never build a motor because you expect a crappy tune. Thats just crazy. Get a Good WB meter and find a tuner that knows these motors well and listen to what he says. Never let some parking lot tune for a big mack idiot with a tactrix cable, Near that JDM ecu.

Let us know if you need help. Alot of us have these motors and have run them to the max.


C
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:30 AM   #1212
MConte05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Get a Good WB meter and find a tuner that knows these motors well and listen to what he says.
Coincidentally, ^ That guy is one of those tuners who knows these motors well and you should listen to what he says.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:36 PM   #1213
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Lightbulb Question about a Swap decision

So I have a 2003 Subaru Impreza TS 2.5 Wagon.

I also own a 2005 Mazda Rx8. I'm selling my Rx8, and if it sells in the next month I'm going to do a swap on my TS. If it doesn't sell within a month then I may get a greddy turbo kit and the mazda maniac upgrade and throw it on the Rx8.

I'm trying to figure out what I should swap into it and whats the best way to do it. I'm thinking a awesome swap would be to take the EJ25 out and put in an EJ20 Turbo with the 6 speed. Possibly the EJ207 since I hear its the best of the bunch. I'm also reading that many people swap in the ej25. Is this the same ej25 that comes in my TS? and if so what do I need to do to it to get it going good? I would most likely still do a swap for a newer ej25 if I did go that route seeing as mine has 158k miles on it.

Who knows how hard this would be, and could give me some advice on getting it done?

I know from some research that pretty much every Subaru engine can be swapped with another Subaru engine as long as it's post 1990 with out an enormous amount of modifications via eastcoastswappers, but is there another engine that would give me more bang for my buck?

Also, which car would be a better idea to work on if the Mazda doesn't sell? Would and STI Wagon be faster that a nearly 400 rwhp Rx8?
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:10 PM   #1214
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I noticed that the NZ people call the 2005 EJ207 a V9 and the 2006-2007 a V10.
This would probably make the GR body EJ207 V11

This is all unofficial, of course, since Subaru dropped the version system.

I think that it has been made clear as far as differences between V7 and 8.
I didn't see much said about V9 and 10 other than they were very similar, except the intercooler was improved.

Is anybody here running a V9 or V10?

I mean, eventually, the supply of V7 and 8 will have to end, and people will have to move to newer engines.

I know that the V11 is dual AVCS and throttle by wire. I also saw photos of the short block that seem to show a more sturdy design with thicker material in the cylinder area. It is still twinscroll.

Is anybody here running a V11? Could a V11 be plug-and-play with a USDM Sti shell, due to throttle by wire OEM?
Of course, the exhaust AVCS would have to be disabled, unless it's going into a 2008+ USDM sti shell.

There should be more 9,10 and 11 on the market than 7 and 8. Eventually, these will have to be cheaper than the 7 and 8.

Edit: Forgot to mention that in the GR body style, only the Spec C and I think that auto version, got a 207. Also, the 9 and 10 were Japan only, I think, as the world started to get 257.

Last edited by Vlad; 01-17-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:58 PM   #1215
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i'd build the RX8 if i were you, and keep the TS as a winter beater.

a 'nearly 400 rwhp RX8' would kill a ts with an sti motor. unless you're swapping the tranny and doing a lot of work on the chassis and suspension, the RX8 will be faster. consider that the turbo'd RX8 will out power an ej207 by 50+hp in most cases (ej207 with the twin scroll usually put out 320-360 whp... obviously with exceptions), and the RX8 is already a sports car chassis, so in the turns it would kill it too without modifications to the TS. generally speaking, a subaru wouldn't be a chassis i'd want to use as a sports car platform. bad weight distribution, really tall roof, front tires so far behind the engine, etc. BUT they're good for other things, like their interior space, awd, in your case, wagon body style, etc. that's why i'd use it as a dd/winter beater, and build the RX8 as the fast car. just my opinion.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:03 PM   #1216
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oh, and as far as bang for buck - it's not in doing an engine swap and building a TS into a sports car. you'll end up nickel-and-diming yourself into a huge bill if you don't do all the work yourself. if you're looking for bang for buck, consider selling both and getting a used sti or something. or on the extreme end of things, if you really want to go fast for cheap, get a sport bike.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:02 AM   #1217
i2cou4u2
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After reading through all 49 pages of this glorious thread, I have pulled the trigger on a JDM 2003 V8 207 motor for my 2004 WRX Wagon. I got it from a company called EagleJapanMotor.com out of Canada.

Here is what I have for my swap so far...

-Complete JDM V8 EJ207 Long Block with TMIC, turbo...the works
-ECU
-Wiring harness
-IA Performance AVCS wiring kit
-Gates timing belt w/ OEM tensioner and all pulleys
-OEM Water pump
-Custom 3" downpipe for the VF-37 turbo


EQ Tuning in CA will be tuning the car once the engine is installed and everything is working properly. I won't be able to do the swap until around September due to me deploying with the military in February. My question is how do I test the motor while it is out of the car for proper compression and leak-down to ensure that I received a good motor from the supplier since it wont be installed for a while. And what other things should I be looking at to tell if it is a good motor or not?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Tom
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:17 PM   #1218
nedalrabadi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
If you want to build the block then get a JDM 2.2 Stroker kit for the EJ207. Tommy K, HKS, JUN, ECT... Otherwise, There is not one reason to go into the motor. I have run those motors with 30 and 35Rs with nitrous spraying ontop and they hold up fine.

Put some Kelford 207 Cams into the motor and leave it alone.

Never build a motor because you expect a crappy tune. Thats just crazy. Get a Good WB meter and find a tuner that knows these motors well and listen to what he says. Never let some parking lot tune for a big mack idiot with a tactrix cable, Near that JDM ecu.

Let us know if you need help. Alot of us have these motors and have run them to the max.


C
it means alot to me that you are welling to help clark thank you so much and i'll come straight to you when it comes to these motors
i want a built motor to crank up the boost too lol without feeling scared not only the bad tune plus i want the extra torque and high awhp but as i will take your word for it yet i don't understand it why don't you recommend touching the internals ?

the kelfords recommended changing the springs should i take there word for it or leave stock ones ?


i'm gana take your word for it and save up for a short block
but as for the tuning here is the problem clarck and
the only tuner we have is more of an EVO guy he doesn't know our motors well and to make it worse he's the only one in the region who tunes this type of ecu
and i bought an HKS F-CON PRO V unit for an ecu with all the supports from boost trigger all the way to a lunch control mixer and HKS CAMP2
is there any way you can help me with that ?
plus
what do you think should i go the route of a twin scroll or stick to non twin scroll on the GT3076 ? and would it make any deference if i went the rotated path than the stock location ?

Last edited by nedalrabadi; 01-23-2011 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:39 AM   #1219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2cou4u2 View Post
After reading through all 49 pages of this glorious thread, I have pulled the trigger on a JDM 2003 V8 207 motor for my 2004 WRX Wagon. I got it from a company called EagleJapanMotor.com out of Canada.

Here is what I have for my swap so far...

-Complete JDM V8 EJ207 Long Block with TMIC, turbo...the works
-ECU
-Wiring harness
-IA Performance AVCS wiring kit
-Gates timing belt w/ OEM tensioner and all pulleys
-OEM Water pump
-Custom 3" downpipe for the VF-37 turbo




EQ Tuning in CA will be tuning the car once the engine is installed and everything is working properly. I won't be able to do the swap until around September due to me deploying with the military in February. My question is how do I test the motor while it is out of the car for proper compression and leak-down to ensure that I received a good motor from the supplier since it wont be installed for a while. And what other things should I be looking at to tell if it is a good motor or not?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Tom

Congrats on the new V8 207, I love my V7 in my RS! I'm not sure you need to have the engine installed to do a compression test. As long as the engine can be advanced manually..i think. I know this is a side note, but Do you have any interest in a used in VG+ condition Spearco TMIC for that engine? I'm selling mine because I have an FMIC now.

Last edited by picturegeek; 01-24-2011 at 02:40 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:20 AM   #1220
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I have just a few questions about the swap, do you use the JDM EJ207 engine harness or did you use the USDM EJ205 engine harness? I have a local tuner shop that is telling me that I need to use my EJ205 engine harness and not the JDM engine harness that came with my V8 EJ207. I was under the impression that the motor is a direct swap. That I use the JDM 207 harness and plug it into my USDM chassis harness and run the IA Performance AVCS harness to use the AVCS system and plug it all into the JDM ECU. Is this correct or am I missing something? I have tried to find a thread that goes over the swap but I have not had any luck. If any one can point me in the right direction that would be awesome.

Thanks

Tom
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:23 AM   #1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2cou4u2 View Post
I have just a few questions about the swap, do you use the JDM EJ207 engine harness or did you use the USDM EJ205 engine harness? I have a local tuner shop that is telling me that I need to use my EJ205 engine harness and not the JDM engine harness that came with my V8 EJ207. I was under the impression that the motor is a direct swap. That I use the JDM 207 harness and plug it into my USDM chassis harness and run the IA Performance AVCS harness to use the AVCS system and plug it all into the JDM ECU. Is this correct or am I missing something? I have tried to find a thread that goes over the swap but I have not had any luck. If any one can point me in the right direction that would be awesome.

Thanks

Tom
Utilize the 207 engine harness and wire in AVCS to your chassis harness using the IA performance kit. Run the JDM ECU. It's really that plug and play.
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:43 AM   #1222
i2cou4u2
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Sounds good!!! Does the V8 EJ207 have the same emission controls as the USDM EJ205? I ask because I live in California and in order to get the JDM motor BAR certified so I wont have to worry about cops, it needs to have the same emission controls as the USDM engine.

Thanks

Tom
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:51 AM   #1223
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for emissions you will have to plug back stock ECU, block CELs
JDM ECU doesn't have the sector in it where USDM have their emissions written
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:55 AM   #1224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
for emissions you will have to plug back stock ECU, block CELs
JDM ECU doesn't have the sector in it where USDM have their emissions written
But what about the emissions hardware on the actual engine its self? Like EGR and PCV Valves.

Tom
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:29 AM   #1225
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The hardware for emissions mandated, should probably be the same hardware which was installed in 2004, on the car you own.
I'm no lawyer, you may want to check this.
In 2004, on your WRX, what do you have?
-PCV, I expect the 207 will have it
-EGR, I don't think the 2004 WRX has that, but check with the factory repair manual, the emissions section.

What your car does probably have OEM is an up-pipe catalytic converter and an EGT probe associated with it.

To do things "by the book", like you're suggesting, you'd have to transfer that to your 207.
Your 207 is a V8, therefore twinscroll. There is no twinscroll catalysed up-pipe.
You would have to revert to your factory single scroll manifold and up-pipe from 2004. You probably don't need to modify the engine harness, as the EGT probe plugs into the body harness, passenger side.

How the JDM EJ207 will run with the single scroll up-pipe and what to tune for that, who knows...

Is it that bad in California for inspection, do you really have to worry about 100% emissions?

To me it kinda defeats the purpose of even having an EJ207.
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