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Old 01-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #2451
Computersare8ad
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I apologize if this has been posted already, but anyone know where I can pick up a downpipe to fit twinscoll and a USDM catback?

Thanks!
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:35 PM   #2452
fastnoypi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmsti340 View Post
With this flash will it completely reflash the ecu back to stock no matter what tune is on the ecu? If so is this how the dealerships flash cars with ecutek back to stock roms?
i dont know of any dealerships willing to pay for ecutek keys to flash cars back to stock, too expensive.

If you want to go back to a stock map , you must match your case number with the associated stock rom with opensource.
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:38 PM   #2453
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Yes. If the ecu has ecutek on it, You no longer own it. Ecutek does. It is there property. 32 bit ecus can be brought back to life.

C
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:52 PM   #2454
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Yeah i just want to flash it back to stock.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:45 PM   #2455
Deraj_53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Computersare8ad View Post
I apologize if this has been posted already, but anyone know where I can pick up a downpipe to fit twinscoll and a USDM catback?

Thanks!
That question has been answered here:
Stock Location Aftermarket Twin Scroll Downpipe Compendium
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:27 PM   #2456
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if you can find a oem dp just cut the top 12 inchs off the jdm dp and then cut the same amount off the usdm one you have and weld them together. if you dont have oem jdm one then other options probably easier.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:57 AM   #2457
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Hey guys, need some input/opinions.

I have in my posession both a full twinscroll vf37 with all of the plumbing as well as a vf34.

This car is a daily driver, spirited driving as well as possibly some NASA events down the road.

I've seen some disappointments with the vf37 (mostly late spool complaints- even though its twinscroll.). And my tuner just did a vf37 and he said he was a little disappointed with the spool as well.

If you had the choice, which would you run?
I know the vf34 was on the same motor as spec C in V7, so obviously its a good combo as well.

The other thing is that if I sold the vf37 I could recoup some of my costs. It would cost me roughly $1000 more to run vf37.

Given the two choices, and the intended use, what would you go with?

Any input would be appreciated.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:00 AM   #2458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby
Hey guys, need some input/opinions.

I have in my posession both a full twinscroll vf37 with all of the plumbing as well as a vf34.

This car is a daily driver, spirited driving as well as possibly some NASA events down the road.

I've seen some disappointments with the vf37 (mostly late spool complaints- even though its twinscroll.). And my tuner just did a vf37 and he said he was a little disappointed with the spool as well.

If you had the choice, which would you run?
I know the vf34 was on the same motor as spec C in V7, so obviously its a good combo as well.

The other thing is that if I sold the vf37 I could recoup some of my costs. It would cost me roughly $1000 more to run vf37.

Given the two choices, and the intended use, what would you go with?

Any input would be appreciated.
Easy, VF37. Spools better than a VF34 and makes more power, and it's better for autox/track.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:10 AM   #2459
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Yeah, that's what I thought, but the added cost - is it worth it over the vf34?
Is the ROI worth it? (I suppose that should be a rhetorical question)

What about sound? I'm losing the boxer rumble - I don't want it to sound like a Honda.....(goes to YouTube to find equal length header videos)
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:30 AM   #2460
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I much prefer the sound of a twinscroll setup to the UEL sound. It's also nothing like a honda...at all.

The VF37 is absolutely worth it, there is a lot to it that you cannot see on the dyno, it is much more responsive than a single scroll setup, and more responsive than a VF34. It's a great DD turbo, and will hold pretty well at higher revs too.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:35 AM   #2461
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I thought the vf37 was about the same size as vf34-but you're sure it makes more power?

I'm on crappy 91 octane gas, I know that hinders spool up. I've never had a turbo on this car that spools before 3600 rpms, even my current td04 (with 19t wheel upgrade) it hits 20psi at 3600ish.

My tuner, who just did a vf37 said it didn't hit target boost until 3600, that's not much, if any, quicker than vf single scrolls.

That, for me, wouldn't be worth the extra cash.

I think I'll do vf37, then if I'm not impressed go back to single scroll.
Only cost me the extra tune, and my tuner is very reasonable as far as pricing.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:43 AM   #2462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby
I thought the vf37 was about the same size as vf34-but you're sure it makes more power?

I'm on crappy 91 octane gas, I know that hinders spool up. I've never had a turbo on this car that spools before 3600 rpms, even my current td04 (with 19t wheel upgrade) it hits 20psi at 3600ish.

My tuner, who just did a vf37 said it didn't hit target boost until 3600, that's not much, if any, quicker than vf single scrolls.

That, for me, wouldn't be worth the extra cash.

I think I'll do vf37, then if I'm not impressed go back to single scroll.
Only cost me the extra tune, and my tuner is very reasonable as far as pricing.
The problem is you are comparing apples to oranges. You say both hit target boost by 3600, but you need to ask what the difference in flow was. Your current turbo prolly doesn't flow as much, and for a larger turbo to spool as quickly while providing more power is what you need to focus on.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:56 PM   #2463
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So the area under the curve will be larger and shifted to the left more with the vf37 right?

That's what I'm looking for, more useable power in a daily driver.

I'm going to go with the 37 and if I'm not impressed I'll go with 34. I've got both, and I'm not in a hurry so why not.

Has the volume of the exhaust gone up with vf37? Or is it the ej207 juat louder in general?

I don't want to attract any more attention than necessary.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:56 PM   #2464
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the vf37 has a larger hotside i believe because of the twin spool characteristics. when comparing the two you have to take into account how the curve will grow on spool up. they might make very simular power from 4000-7000 rpms but in the 2500-4000 range the graph of a vf37 will be much steeper to hit peak torque compared to a vf34 which will be more gradual. this means that there is more area under the curve for the vf37. also take into account the vf37 TS was matched with a v8 avcs engine originally which helps with low end power and spool up.

here is two efi graphs one of a turboback v8 engine and the other a vf34. you can see with the three port added to the vf34 setup it made boost nearly as quick. put on a stock bcs and it would be shifted right.first vf34 is John Fogg
then look at Greg Svet. he make simular power to the vf37 but look how its all to the right as well as the boost isnt until 4300 rpms. thats a 500rpm slower spool than the vf37.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=kinugawa

here is the link. type in vf34 in the search bar
http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:36 PM   #2465
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Good info, thanks.
500 rpms is nothing to sneeze at.

Last edited by azscooby; 01-31-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:07 PM   #2466
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If you are going to go through all the trouble to retrofit a JDM EJ207 into a USDM chassis. Why limit yourself with the VF37 and not go with a large 20g? With avcs, the engine will have considerably more torque and power down low and your not going to have off boost power issues like the EJ205. So the larger single scroll will still have great low response, but give you "alot" more power up top.

I think the VF37 is a better choice if you are putting it on an EJ205/EJ255 with an automatic. Where getting the response in the sweet spot is more difficult.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:26 PM   #2467
azscooby
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Fiery, I had that as one of my other options, but the lack of power down low is why I ruled it out.

Do you think the ej207 will be noticeably better down low, off boost, even with the larger turbo?

I was under the impression it would still have considerable lag with the larger turbo, though marginally better than the ej205.

My turbo now is a td04 with a 19t wheel upgrade, and I'm very happy with it- though I would not complain if I were to have more top-end. It makes a very fun DD.

I wish I could drive all these options so I knew what I had to choose from.

It's hard to base a decision off of dyno charts, they really don't give you the full story.

Do you think the 20g would feel laggier on the 207 then say a vf34 on an ej205 (sans AVCS?) I know its not possible to give direct comparisons, just looking for a general idea with all other things being equal.

If they did feel similar, I would definitely go with the larger option, why not?

Yeay! More options.....!

Last edited by azscooby; 01-31-2012 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:00 PM   #2468
Fierysun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
Fiery, I had that as one of my other options, but the lack if power down low is why I ruled it out.

You think the ej207 will be noticeably better down low, off boost, even with the larger turbo?

I was under the impression it would still have considerable lag with the larger turbo.

My turbo now is a td04 with a 19t wheel upgrade, and I'm very happy with it- though I would not complain if I were to have more top-end.

I wish I could drive all these options so I knew what I had to choose from.

It's hard to base a decision off of dyno charts, at least for me. And even then they don't give you the full story.

Do you think the 20g would feel laggier on the 207 then say a vf34 on an ej205 (sans AVCS?) I know its not possible to give direct comparisons, just looking for a general idea with all other things being equal.

If they did feel similar, I would definitely go with the larger option, why not?

Yeay! More options.....!
Yes, the EJ207 with working avcs will have "much" better power/torque off boost than the EJ205, even with a larger turbo.

I went through 4 different (TD04, FP green [lag city], PnP VF39, and Tomei 7760) turbo's on my 03 wagon's EJ205, before finding the one that had the right amount of power to lag I can live with. I found the PnP VF39 had considerably more lag and poorer response than the larger Tomei turbo, which isn't reflected on the dyno graph. So it's not just the size, but how well the turbo is designed and manufactured. I'm very impressed with the performance/response of the Tomei turbo on the EJ205 and if i was going to go with a turbo upgrade on the EJ207, i would consider the new Tomei 7960 or the smaller 7760.

Yes, i do think a high quality 20g on a EJ207 will not only out perform a VF34 on a EJ205, but will also have better response across the entire RPM band.

Gearing is also important. I noticed after converting to an 05 STI 6MT the response was even better. Having a lower 1st and an extra gear inbetween 1st and 2nd (compared to the 5MT) made a difference.

Here's my EJ205 setup with the Tomei.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=tomei
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:46 PM   #2469
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Thanks for he info, I'll do a bit of research on the larger turbos.

I can always swap turbos for relatively little money since I have a tuner that only charges me $100 for refined.

It might take a couple of setups to nail down what I'm happy with. I guess that's part of the fun with kidding cars, you're never done.

I am curious to see how the ej207 feels off boost down low.
I would be happy with a 20g if the response down low was comparable to my ej205 with say a 16g size turbo. That would seriously kick ass.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:10 PM   #2470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
Thanks for he info, I'll do a bit of research on the larger turbos.

I can always swap turbos for relatively little money since I have a tuner that only charges me $100 for refined.

It might take a couple of setups to nail down what I'm happy with. I guess that's part of the fun with kidding cars, you're never done.

I am curious to see how the ej207 feels off boost down low.
I would be happy with a 20g if the response down low was comparable to my ej205 with say a 16g size turbo. That would seriously kick ass.
I have a twinscroll 20G (not blouch, if I did it again I would have bought blouch's t/s 20G) on a ver8 longblock and drivetrain. 6MT, GC chasis. Can't punch the throttle after 3k rpm anymore if its raining or I'd be floating across the freeway Hope that helps. My tuner was very disappointed with the particular manufacturer of this 20G variant. A blouch unit on a similar setup has made 30-40whp more on his dyno, all things being equal.

Off boost isn't bad, its very calming before 3k rpm. Anything after that is f***in go time though. Keep in mind this is on the very tightly geared JDM 6 speed, so gears are super short. I'm never more than a downshift away from "OMG WHERE IS MY CAR GOING?!"

Hope that helps. I've been on this setup through the winter, tune is holding up nicely.

As a reference, and a reference only. Vf37 tuned at about 290whp. This 20G made 343whp 314wtq. Blouch variant is a "XT" and therefore makes about 30-40whp on this dyno. I realize this is a "high" reading dyno. Take it for what it is, it doesn't matter. Here's your baseline, here's the rate of change from one turbo to the next.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:34 PM   #2471
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When are you hitting full boost?
So is it the vf37 with the bigger wheel stuffed in there? Or is it a new TS turbo altogether.

What's your fuel mileage like on that jdm 6spd? I almost did tranny as well, but decided not to because of the poor fuel mileage. I'm holding out for usdm 6spd.

Sounds like a killer setup!
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:36 PM   #2472
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new control arm installed, need a wheel bearing though. ill grab some pics when I put it on the lift for that
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:48 PM   #2473
blakjak00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azscooby View Post
When are you hitting full boost?
So is it the vf37 with the bigger wheel stuffed in there? Or is it a new TS turbo altogether.

What's your fuel mileage like on that jdm 6spd? I almost did tranny as well, but decided not to because of the poor fuel mileage. I'm holding out for usdm 6spd.

Sounds like a killer setup!
Fuel mileage is God awful. My commute is 80% freeway and I average about 19.5 mpg. Granted I let my car warm up for several minutes before I drive it, but that wouldn't make more than 1-2 mpg difference.

Its a TD06H 20G, not a franken-turbo. New altogether. Dyno plot showed full boost at about 4450. Sounds late, but the proof is on the road. If I punch it at 3k, I'm screaming by 4k. Had to take it nice and easy when the snow hit

Minimal drop in power, still over 300whp at 8k. Let me find the photobucket of the chart. I didn't put it up anywhere like PPB, for obvious reasons.


EDIT: to add link to dyno plot/mod list.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71974089@N06/?saved=1

Last edited by blakjak00; 01-31-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:52 PM   #2474
Fierysun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakjak00 View Post
...Dyno plot showed full boost at about 4450. Sounds late, but the proof is on the road. If I punch it at 3k, I'm screaming by 4k. :
I agree, the dyno plot is only part of the picture and doesn't tell the whole story. You can have two plots that looks the same, but one lags on the road with poor/slow response, while the other is quicker with better response.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:09 PM   #2475
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im very interested to see how my 5mt with taller gears will work with the vf37. will make for minimal shifting for drags and i will build boost faster... but it may feel laggy unlike your monster fierysun. i found a fairly off brand turbo online that had good reviews on here. ppl were knocking on it but i would like to try it still. you should pm me info on it so i dont make the same mistake incase i am thinking the same thing.
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