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Old 09-12-2006, 11:58 AM   #1
busky2k
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Default Preparing methanol 50/50.. strange reaction?

Hey guys.

I've been using denatured but today I found a cheap source for methanol at a local speed shop. Woohoo!

But when I poured the distilled water into the methanol in my mixing bottle, I noticed it went cloudy, started to aerate a bit and also got warm? I started to freak out a bit. Nevertheless it worked a charm in the car. Anyone notice this when they dilute their methanol? Damn I don't even remember this happening at uni lab work..
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:09 PM   #2
jays05
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Haha, I had the same thing when mixing HEET drygas (99% meth) with distilled h2o. I put em in a 1 gal container and shook it up... the container got warm real quick, and when I opened up the cap it released pressure. I thought I was going crazy...
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:30 PM   #3
tasq
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Do you guys have a system for getting a perfect 50/50 mix everytime?
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:43 PM   #4
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yea.

i have a 1 gallon beeker, pour one part H20 in to race fuel can, then repeat with the meth. i use 100% pure meth so for the average tuner it is very expensive.

my race fuel cans are able to be air tigh sealed, meth does evaporate faster than water. so if it sits for a long time it is possible you ratio could be off
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BREWPUBEAVER View Post
yea.

i have a 1 gallon beeker, pour one part H20 in to race fuel can, then repeat with the meth. i use 100% pure meth so for the average tuner it is very expensive.

my race fuel cans are able to be air tigh sealed, meth does evaporate faster than water. so if it sits for a long time it is possible you ratio could be off
Thanks for the info! Where can I get some nice air tight cans?
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:05 PM   #6
zymurguy
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You can get some aluminum fuel containers/cells from backpacking supply places. They make them in varying sizes... or I guess you could use a white fuel can (coleman fuel).
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Old 09-12-2006, 01:13 PM   #7
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I think the there's a hydrogenation chemical reaction when you poured the water in. You are creating more water and the reaction is exothermic, hence the warmth. Don't quote me on this, it's been a while since I had organic chemistry.
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:36 PM   #8
busky2k
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Ah yes so if we are creating more water, it really isnt a 50/50 mix then is it?

Might have to find out the "k" of the reaction, to see how much water we are getting when we mix em!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busky2k View Post
Ah yes so if we are creating more water, it really isnt a 50/50 mix then is it?

Might have to find out the "k" of the reaction, to see how much water we are getting when we mix em!
Keep us posted on what you find!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:57 PM   #10
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I think the k should be pretty close to one, since the reverse reaction is also happening but probably slower. It's going to be hard to pour in the exact amount so it reaches 50/50 at equalibrium.
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:07 PM   #11
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I get my meth in a 5gal metal can so i just mix it as i need 1gal at a time. I use a old windshield washer container to mix with i have it already pre set so i poor in the wate to the water line,and the meth to the meth line. and if i dont use it all i can put a cap on it.
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:13 AM   #12
benw
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you could do what I am planning on doing. get 2 5 gallon containers. fill one with alcohol, and buy 5 distilled water jugs of 1 gal. each. Then pour half of the alcohol into the empty jug, leaving 1/2 full in each. then use the water to fill the jugs each. it becomes 10 gallons of 50-50 mix. Around here, methanol from the racing fuel store is only $1.30 per gallon, so its no big deal.
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:16 PM   #13
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Anyone who has a dehumidifier, is producing distilled water, @ n/c. Save it.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:25 AM   #14
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If thats true, here in Michigan I would have a ton of water from my basement. Then I wouldn't be so pissy about the humid summers.
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Old 09-24-2006, 05:46 PM   #15
pieces
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gte123v View Post
I think the there's a hydrogenation chemical reaction when you poured the water in. You are creating more water and the reaction is exothermic, hence the warmth. Don't quote me on this, it's been a while since I had organic chemistry.
Better explanation is entropy of mixing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_of_mixing

There would be a small component of the acid base reaction (not hydrogenation) but instead:
MeOH + H2O = MeO- + H3O+
I doubt it is the major player though since methanol is pretty weak acid. (If anyone wants to calculate that one to prove me wrong please do so- I'm a very lazy person)

The pressure you generated was from the low vapor pressure of methanol and the change of temperature (you've made more methanol gas). If paranoid about a 50/50 mix let your solution cool back to ambient so the methanol can go back in, but really there isn't much leaving.

As far as the cloudiness. I'm not going to kill myself trying to answer without actually doing the experiment and seeing it, but it is most likely just the result of the two not initially mixing. This can make very small little drops of methanol or water which are small enough to refract light. An emulsion if you will. It is either that or it may just be you entraining air into the mix by shaking.
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