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Old 09-12-2006, 02:07 PM   #1
CasopoliS
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Default Vendors - need quote for injection system

I have already been quoted for a Coolingmist system with the varicool controller that is a very good quote, I am interested in all of my options though.

1 - I want clog detection and a check valve - safety valve
2 - I want to mount the tank in my engine bay or use my stock washer fluid tank
3 - I want it to ramp up when I get on boost (kick in at 9 psi, full injection at 16psi or something like that)
4 - I want low-level indicators

So, who on here wants to post their purchase 'experience' with a water/meth injection system. I am not on this forum much and to not interact with vendors here. I am pretty sure the vendor I got a quote from is also on this board. I want to give them my business... I am cool with them... but I also want to hear thoughts and pricing on other kits. Just something I like to do before spending my money.

Thank you in advance for any purchasing advice.

Oh FYI..
yes I am installing this on my own
yes I am getting it tuned (COBB AP)
I am stage II - uppipe, downpipe, stock TMIC, stock turbo, stock CBE
I plan to install the injector on the bottom side of my TMIC exit endtank facing up.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:42 PM   #2
hippy
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For what it's worth, coolingmist has no product for sale that will tell you if a nozzle is clogged(if that's what you're looking for), so you should add the price of that to whatever they quoted you if you didn't already.

peace
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:53 PM   #3
CMTech
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CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTech View Post
CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.
Please explain how your "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" operates?
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:05 PM   #5
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I will. It's a pressure switch(seriously). If the pressure is above a given amount, it thinks everything is ok. If it's not, it doesn't. The problem with this is that it will only detect if there's a problem before the sensor. Since the nozzle is after the sensor(on every system in the world), the "clog nozzle detector"(edit, inserted nozzle) will not be able to tell you if the nozzle is clogged or not. That's why I said that coolingmist doesn't sell anything which can detect if a nozzle is clogged.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-12-2006 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:13 PM   #6
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Please explain how your "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" operates?
The status detector is placed in between the checkvalve and the injector. It will light the led when it flows by detecting the pressure in the line. After you let off the gas and get out of boost the led will go out as the pressure will bleed from the line. If the nozzle is clogged the pressure will be held in the line between the checkvalve and the nozzle as it cant escape from either side.

The clog nozzle/status detector is simply something to tell you if there is an issue. If it doesn't light up when it should or if it is lit up when it should not be there is a problem.

I'm not getting on this site to debate the merrits of the detector. We are simply saying that it does what we say and its an option, if someone doesn't like it, thats fine. There are "Failsafes" on the market that have easily been integrated into our system, for those customers that want to take advantage of our advanced controller , but want a "fail safe" device, it makes a good option.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTech View Post
It will light the led when it flows by detecting the pressure in the line.
............
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:44 PM   #8
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hippy I do not see a problem with that. if an injector is clogged it WILL increase the pressure in the line. Its a means of detection that works. If the nozzle is clogged, and there ISNT a pressure increase.... then you are relieving pressure elsewhere and you have another problem altogether and a clogged nozzle is the least of your issues.

I understand it is not flow based like some I have seen. These are obviously a more robust option that tells you more... and thus they cost more. So there are other options... I understand that and so does CM.

To be honest I am surprised by your 'tone' / attitude. Its like the campaign comercials that just rag on the opponent..... so you sell something better?

Last edited by CasopoliS; 09-12-2006 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
hippy I do not see a problem with that. if an injector is clogged it WILL increase the pressure in the line...
The pressure won't necessarily increase since the system has a max pressure, and when running it might already be at that max pressure. Even if the system was running lower then max pressure before it got upto max pressure for one reason or another, running the max pressure of the system is nothing that people are warned about. This is why coolingmists pressure sensor tells you when the pressure is too low, not too high. A flow sensor can tell you when there's no flow going through the system. A pressure sensor cannot. There are places to get pressure sensors, and no I do not sell them. I'm not trying to sell you anything other then the truth(as I see it), and all it will cost you is a little time.

Someone in a recent thread said he got two flow sensors/switches for $25 off ebay. You can get a pressure sensor/switch for less then $20(that's less then $45 together). Coolingmist sells their "Clog Nozzle/Flow Detector"(quote from website) for $50. It was $70 before I posted on here that it was a pressure sensor/switch, and did not detect flow or if a nozzle was clogged.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-12-2006 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:42 PM   #10
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ok got it. I understand what you are saying. I have not seen pressure switches that low in price before, but I usually deal with transducers and switches direct with the company (like Transducers Direct). Thanks for trying to look out. The things you said will be noted. I understand your intentions now.

It seems a pressure gauge would also get you what you want. Flow is a function of pressure and I think a gauge would show you quite a bit too... I guess an LED is more obvious if something is wrong though.

I agree flow measurement might be ideal. I will look into my different options regarding safety..... and might tackle that on my own... but I still need info on the base systems.

CM - thanks for the details. Your newest distributor out in the New England states is promoting the product quite well over at legacygt.com

Snow - thanks for the quote via PM
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
The pressure won't necessarily increase since the system has a max pressure, and when running it might already be at that max pressure. Even if the system was running lower then max pressure before it got upto max pressure for one reason or another, running the max pressure of the system is nothing that people are warned about. This is why coolingmists pressure sensor tells you when the pressure is too low, not too high. A flow sensor can tell you when there's no flow going through the system. A pressure sensor cannot. There are places to get pressure sensors, and no I do not sell them. I'm not trying to sell you anything other then the truth(as I see it), and all it will cost you is a little time.

Someone in a recent thread said he got two flow sensors/switches for $25 off ebay. You can get a pressure sensor/switch for less then $20(that's less then $45 together). Coolingmist sells their "Clog Nozzle/Flow Detector"(quote from website) for $50. It was $70 before I posted on here that it was a pressure sensor/switch, and did not detect flow or if a nozzle was clogged.

peace
For the record, it was NOT $70 before you posted here. We used to sell 2 for $79.95, but discontinued that, had nothing to do with you. Good luck on getting 2 of ours for $25. The ones you get on ebay are plastic and will not handle the high pressure. Ours are made of solid brass and designed for high pressure.

For the record, our detectors are NOT designed to warn you if the flow is too low, they are NOT designed to tell you the flow is TOO HIGH. We never advertised that. They will do the 2 things we discussed in detail earlier.


I have seen you time after time bashing the company I work for. Our clog nozzle detectors work, PERIOD. They will light up when the system is flowing or NOT light up when they should be... and they will indicate a clog when installed correctly. Please get off your ego and let it go.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
.....It seems a pressure gauge would also get you what you want. Flow is a function of pressure and I think a gauge would show you quite a bit too... I guess an LED is more obvious if something is wrong though.

I agree flow measurement might be ideal. I will look into my different options regarding safety..... and might tackle that on my own... but I still need info on the base systems........
Yes, a pressure gauge can show you a lot(not if the system is flowing), help tell you when some things are wrong(not a clogged nozzle, but some things) and/or diagnose a problem. A flow sensor/switch and pressure sensor/switch would help you better know if your system is working normally, and I thought that might have been what you wanted when you said clog detection. <explination>That's why I pointed out that coolingmist doesn't offer flow sensor/switches even though they make it seem like they do.

peace
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:17 PM   #13
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My vote right now is still for CM.

Thanks hippy for your opinion.

Thanks CM for being up front, honest, and informative via PM. Like I said... I understand what I am getting with CM, and what they say is true. And that works for me.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTech View Post
CasopoliS ,

Our "Status/Monitor-clog nozzle detector" will tell you if your system is clogged. its a simple set up and if your nozzle is clogged the system will tell you. We guarantee it or your money back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
My vote right now is still for CM.....

..Thanks CM for being up front, honest, and............what they say is true.......
Think about this. Not only do they lie, but they have you lying about them. It's like some kinda cult.

peace
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:17 AM   #15
Ben Crowson
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Is this pressure switch:
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/112/...e/3460kc1l.gif



similar to the one on the cooling mist site- it appears to work in the same way......

Repeatability: Not rated
Pressure Sensing Element: Buna-N
diaphragm-sealed piston
Single adjustable setpoint with fixed
deadband (see table)
Electrical Switch: SPDT, 10 amps at 125/250 VAC
Pressure Connection: 1/8" NPT male,
1/8" BSPP, or 1/8" BSPT brass
Electrical Connection: 1/4" spade
Temperature Range: Ambient and Process:
-40 to +250 F
Maximum Pressure: 250 psi
UL listed
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:42 AM   #16
hippy
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You mean the one that sells for $19.80 and is adjustable between 20 and 120psi? Yes, that's probably the exact one coolingmist sells. Here's a screen shot I put in a thread about 2 months back. Wish I took a screen shot of the price.

Here's a link to mcmaster, and the part number for anyone who's interested(3460K15). Like I said, less then $20. It's little brothers(3460K11 and 3460K13) which have lower adjustable setpoints can be used to activate systems.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-13-2006 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:47 AM   #17
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FYI Ben,

That is not our switch. We used to use that one a few years ago. That is a company called NAISON. Its the generic version of the one we use. We switched to the better unit after having problems with that one. That is a very good price though and it will serve the same function.

We dont purchase anything from McMaster. We either design our own products and have them manufactured or go to the manufacturer directly for everything.

If anyone cares, the switch we use for the clog nozzle detector is from Transducers Direct.

David
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:00 AM   #18
Richard L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
I have already been quoted for a Coolingmist system with the varicool controller that is a very good quote, I am interested in all of my options though.

1 - I want clog detection and a check valve - safety valve
2 - I want to mount the tank in my engine bay or use my stock washer fluid tank
3 - I want it to ramp up when I get on boost (kick in at 9 psi, full injection at 16psi or something like that)
4 - I want low-level indicators

So, who on here wants to post their purchase 'experience' with a water/meth injection system. I am not on this forum much and to not interact with vendors here. I am pretty sure the vendor I got a quote from is also on this board. I want to give them my business... I am cool with them... but I also want to hear thoughts and pricing on other kits. Just something I like to do before spending my money.

Thank you in advance for any purchasing advice.

Oh FYI..
yes I am installing this on my own
yes I am getting it tuned (COBB AP)
I am stage II - uppipe, downpipe, stock TMIC, stock turbo, stock CBE
I plan to install the injector on the bottom side of my TMIC exit endtank facing up.
You have a huge amount of choices, you are looking for a 2-dimensional system where the flow is taged to a single variable such as boost, MAF etc. If Boost is your choosen variable, the system cease to increase flow beyond the wastegate setting as RPM continues to climb.

If you want to consider a setup with a 3-dimensional capabilities where the flow varies with RPM and boost. Aquiamist system is capable of do this.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:07 AM   #19
hippy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMTech View Post
FYI Ben,

That is not our switch. We used to use that one a few years ago. That is a company called NAISON. Its the generic version of the one we use. We switched to the better unit after having problems with that one. That is a very good price though and it will serve the same function.

We dont purchase anything from McMaster. We either design our own products and have them manufactured or go to the manufacturer directly for everything.

If anyone cares, the switch we use for the clog nozzle detector is from Transducers Direct.

David
............$19.80, and it doesn't detect if a nozzle is clogged.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-13-2006 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:53 AM   #20
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ha... Transducer's Direct calls me at least once a month because I got a quote from them on a project I ran last year. That and I talked with them at a trade show and they somehow got my office number.

I have seen and almost used their full lineup. Good products and they put R&D into them.

That being said, $50 is not bad for a Transducer's Direct pressure switch, retail is around $40 for a standard TD switch. They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things. Sure they probably pay less than $40 but who cares. They are a business. You want to make your own kit, make your own kit.

As far as 2-D vs 3-D... I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs. No RPM input or anything. To be perfectly honest I could design my own controller, I have the resources and skills to do so. But I don't want to spend the time and effort and would rather purchase a supported product.
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
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ha... Transducer's Direct calls me at least once a month because I got a quote from them on a project I ran last year. That and I talked with them at a trade show and they somehow got my office number.

I have seen and almost used their full lineup. Good products and they put R&D into them.

That being said, $50 is not bad for a Transducer's Direct pressure switch, retail is around $40 for a standard TD switch. They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things. Sure they probably pay less than $40 but who cares. They are a business. You want to make your own kit, make your own kit.

As far as 2-D vs 3-D... I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs. No RPM input or anything. To be perfectly honest I could design my own controller, I have the resources and skills to do so. But I don't want to spend the time and effort.
Thanks again for your support.

We not only supply the switch, but we supply the T, quick disconnect fittings and the led for the CND.

About our "2d system"

The vari-cool controller has a boost input AND a 0-5 V input. With this you can run the system off Boost only like you want, but in addition you have the following choices as well (some require extra components). You can run using a true 2d MAP using boost as your primary input or your secondary and 1 choice from below.


MAF/TPS
Exhaust Gas Temps
Intake Temperatures
any device that gives a 0-5V linear feed.

And coming soon
Wideband correction.
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:04 PM   #22
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Yea whatever WB I ever get will have a 0-5 output so I can plug that right in, do the math, and have it kick on or off at specific AFRs. So down the road this might prove to be handy.
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
......They (coolingmist) make little money on this component in the grand scheme of things.......
This is why they probably pay less then $19.80 for the sensor, not just less then $40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
...I just want to ramp mist as a funciton of boost (i.e. varicool controller). That would work for my needs.....
The snow performance controller would work for your needs and cost $100 less. They also sell a flow switch which would actually work as a clog nozzle detector. It can be baught with the $100 dollars you save.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-13-2006 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:59 PM   #24
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Hippy,
In your opinion, why does the Snow flow controller work in a manner you deem acceptable as a clogged nozzle detector?
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:23 PM   #25
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Their flow controller doesn't. I was saying that their controller costs $100 less then coolingmists vari-cool controller, and it will effectively do the same thing with boost as an input.

Snows flow sensor/switch(which costs $100 and can be baught with the money saved on controller) will work as a clog nozzle detector because it detects if the flow is above a given level. If the nozzle gets clogged, or there's any other type of problem that causes less then the set flow, the flow switch will know about it. A pressure switch on the other hand will never know what kind of flow is actually going out of the nozzle. The pressure in the line can be fine, but the nozzle can still be clogged. Not saying that a pressure switch is a bad form of warning device, cause it can help people detect certain types of problems, and help them know how much liquid they might be flowing. It's just won't be able to detect if there's no flow because a nozzle is clogged. A flow sensor can.

peace
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