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Old 09-18-2006, 05:55 PM   #1
dwn2rth
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Unhappy How do I get the deepest sound out of my Subs

I have a 4volt Kenwood deck, Kenwood 9152 amp, and 2 Diamond Audio D3 12" 2ohms Subs rated at 400rms ea - in a spec sealed enclosure with no fill. My problem is that the subs sound are louder on the typical higher boomy bass notes but on the nasty lower tones it's not as "strong". I think I need to either bump up to a better amp with lower frequency boost. For example my amp boost at 40hz and and I'm looking at buying the Fosgate Power 1001BD or MTX 7801 which boost at 30hz and are way cleaner I'm sure than the Kenwood sub amp. Or would building a spec vented enclusure tuned at 30hz do it for me? You're thoughts?
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Old 09-18-2006, 05:56 PM   #2
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I don't even use the boost because it covers up the lower end notes. What up with that?
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:12 PM   #3
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90% of your subs performance is going to be with you box design. Even the most expensive sub/amp combo will sound like crap with an improperly designed box.

Check out the Diamond AUdio site for recommended boxes. You might also want to contact a local shop that has box building software. You tell them what your looking for and they can input your speaker parameters and design the perfect box for your requirements. There are also many software programs that you can use for you yourself. Somenone else might hae a good recommendation in that area.

Good luck!
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:23 PM   #4
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I've got 2 Diamond Audio M3s, think they're rated at 350w rms running on a Hifonics amp that's putting out 750w. No bass boost for me also and I think the crossover is set to 80hz. It's plenty strong on the lower tones and the box I'm using is a prefab that's definitely bigger than the standard dual 12 boxes. A bigger box should give you the lower notes you want. . . the higher ones aren't as punchy for me. Before I swapped boxes, the smaller one definitely hit harder but not as good for the lower notes.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:54 PM   #5
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I thought small sealed boxes offered more flat frequency response down to lower frequency levels? I suppose if you are looking for a bass BOOST then tuning your box down at 18-25hz might work. But why optomize for frequencies that most music will never play?
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:01 PM   #6
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If I'm reading their site right, and have the right product..

You should have 1.5 cu ft per woofer. This gives you a F3 of 44Hz.

Anything below that frequency, it is going to drop off and drop of quickly. However, being in car, there is a natural boost for lower freq.

I'd expect your subs to drop off around 35Hz.

I think one of the following is an issue.

1. box is wrong

2. You have some mismatched X-over settings (head unit has x-over and amp has x-over and both enabled?

3. Bass boost enabled on both amp and headunit (loudness and/or bass EQ setting) and you are going into clipping but can't hear it.

4. Expecting too much, or not knowing what to expect.

5. speakers out of phase?

Most music content is at around the 40Hz range and higher. Stuff below is only on some 25% of music content.

Perhaps take it to a audio shop to troubleshoot, or a reputable friend for a 2nd set of eyes and ears
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCoach View Post
I thought small sealed boxes offered more flat frequency response down to lower frequency levels? I suppose if you are looking for a bass BOOST then tuning your box down at 18-25hz might work. But why optomize for frequencies that most music will never play?
Their recommend ported box is only tuned to 41Hz. You do not want to tune lower then the Fs of a speaker.
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:29 PM   #8
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This is a sealed box....I have NEVER....EVER heard a sealed box that didn't benefit from polyfill.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:50 PM   #9
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smaller sealed boxes=tighter punchier bass at the expense of low frequency extension.

larger sealed boxes=extended deep bass at the expense of loss of output on the upper bass frequencies.

Polyfill is a great way to get a mid-sized (properly sized some might say) box to play deep.

There are 3 factors to consider here as well regarding bass output at certain frequencies.

1. Box type
2. Subwoofer design/output, perhaps the sub doesn't play well down at the frequencies you are wanting
3. Acoustics of the vehicle. Have you tried moving the box around at all (face it forward/backward/sideways/etc...) to see if the overall output changes?
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:06 PM   #10
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Audio control's Epicenter is your friend.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:30 PM   #11
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bah...epicenter is a bass bandaid that messes with the original sound of the recording. Get a 1/3 octave EQ and use an RTA to get the bass weaknesses smoothed out....or use polyfill as has been suggested already.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanH View Post
This is a sealed box....I have NEVER....EVER heard a sealed box that didn't benefit from polyfill.
I second

try adding half a pound per cu.ft first


you also need to look at if you have some blocking, while the lowest frequencies can go thru foam easier as the frequency drop, they can't go thru sheetmetal and box. if there is not enough room for the bass to breath and flow easily to the cabin, it will kill the low-end
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiva-boy View Post
Their recommend ported box is only tuned to 41Hz. You do not want to tune lower then the Fs of a speaker.
A little lower is fine, but most diamond subs have a pretty low Fs anyway, I'd guess that one is in the low 30's
Their recommended box is tuned to 41 because that's what most people want, despite it sounding like ass to people who actually pay attention to how the music sounds.

With sealed, the larger the box, the lower the sub will extend before rolling off.

In a well designed sealed box I wouldn't expect the response to start rolling off until at least 20hz, probably lower. Are you sure you're not just expecting crazy output at these low frequencies that really isn't supposed to be there? Most music has very little content below 30hz.
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwn2rth View Post
I have a 4volt Kenwood deck, Kenwood 9152 amp, and 2 Diamond Audio D3 12" 2ohms Subs rated at 400rms ea - in a spec sealed enclosure with no fill. My problem is that the subs sound are louder on the typical higher boomy bass notes but on the nasty lower tones it's not as "strong". I think I need to either bump up to a better amp with lower frequency boost. For example my amp boost at 40hz and and I'm looking at buying the Fosgate Power 1001BD or MTX 7801 which boost at 30hz and are way cleaner I'm sure than the Kenwood sub amp. Or would building a spec vented enclusure tuned at 30hz do it for me? You're thoughts?

I have that same kenwood amp and i Killed my Alpine Type-R sub. That Amp has plenty. Running 1 ohm stable producing 900 rms.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:12 AM   #15
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definatly use polyfill
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Old 09-19-2006, 10:26 AM   #16
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I have used dynamat inside the sub enclosure. Definatly makes a bit of difference. Have you considered changing/adjusting the ohm?
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:52 AM   #17
dwn2rth
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Default Polyfill

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanH View Post
This is a sealed box....I have NEVER....EVER heard a sealed box that didn't benefit from polyfill.

The shop where I got the install done said no polyfill but then they don't have the same ears I do. I enjoy feeling the deeper end of music along with all the other notes. Like the movies you know?
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:54 AM   #18
dwn2rth
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Default Kenwood Amp

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Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
I have that same kenwood amp and i Killed my Alpine Type-R sub. That Amp has plenty. Running 1 ohm stable producing 900 rms.

No way that's insane. I was told the amp would crash under a 1ohm load, so in all reality this thing could pump out more than the 900watts. The guy at the shop listened to it and was like it's more like 600 true watts. I need at least 400 per woofer
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:56 AM   #19
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Both subs are 2oms ea. So I can only wire it to be either a 2ohm load or .5
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:00 PM   #20
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Default Low freq in truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
A little lower is fine, but most diamond subs have a pretty low Fs anyway, I'd guess that one is in the low 30's
Their recommended box is tuned to 41 because that's what most people want, despite it sounding like ass to people who actually pay attention to how the music sounds.

With sealed, the larger the box, the lower the sub will extend before rolling off.

In a well designed sealed box I wouldn't expect the response to start rolling off until at least 20hz, probably lower. Are you sure you're not just expecting crazy output at these low frequencies that really isn't supposed to be there? Most music has very little content below 30hz.

Ok here's the truth. My girl has attached her sub/amp combo to her Bose system and I swear to GOD it's rediculous. Not loud because she's only running at 500rms but c'mon could Bose come out with a processor to attach to after-market decks? The sound is incredible from every spectrum of the bass note range especially the deeper end it's just super warm and clean. So with everything all aftermarket the sub box and amps have to be tweaked to hell to come 1/3 of the way to get that sound. I believe if she had real power nothing in the world could come close to sounding so true and clean.
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Old 09-19-2006, 12:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
A little lower is fine, but most diamond subs have a pretty low Fs anyway, I'd guess that one is in the low 30's
Their recommended box is tuned to 41 because that's what most people want, despite it sounding like ass to people who actually pay attention to how the music sounds.

With sealed, the larger the box, the lower the sub will extend before rolling off.

In a well designed sealed box I wouldn't expect the response to start rolling off until at least 20hz, probably lower. Are you sure you're not just expecting crazy output at these low frequencies that really isn't supposed to be there? Most music has very little content below 30hz.
Try 38Hz. Not low at all IMO.
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:02 PM   #22
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Did you just say Bose?
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:38 PM   #23
dwn2rth
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Yeah it's not right it's so good!
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:40 PM   #24
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Default Low freq

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Originally Posted by SCoach View Post
I thought small sealed boxes offered more flat frequency response down to lower frequency levels? I suppose if you are looking for a bass BOOST then tuning your box down at 18-25hz might work. But why optomize for frequencies that most music will never play?

So what's the lowest frequency we can actually hear or feel?
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:48 PM   #25
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We're talking movie theatre bass, down low!
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