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Old 04-27-2002, 12:29 AM   #176
sajohnson
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Default Necromancer

A bit testy, eh?!

They don't "All come that way". Mine works fine.

My guess is that human nature being what it is, we aren't hearing from the owners whose WRX's are perfect.
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Old 04-27-2002, 10:55 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Necromancer
[b]Learn to double-clutch. The Subaru tranny is not very nice, but it gets the job done AND THEY ALL COME THAT WAY.
It wouldn't hurt to tone it down Necro.

They *don't* all come that way, and it's *not* how they're made!

My RS - it shifts fine into first gear at any speed in first gear's range if you give the synchros a second to work... No double clutching, no rev matching... in other words, it acts just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should.

My wrx - As it came from the factory, it wouldn't shift into first gear while moving without double clutching. Even with double clutching, you had to be spot on perfect or you'd grind. I had the first and second gear synchros replace by the dealer. Since it's been repaired, it shifts just like the RS - just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should shift.
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Old 04-29-2002, 12:07 AM   #178
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Default Re: Necromancer

Quote:
Originally posted by sajohnson

My guess is that human nature being what it is, we aren't hearing from the owners whose WRX's are perfect.

Actually I think it's more like this...

There have been over 16,000 WRX's sold nationwide and we have a very small percentage on this site. Fortunately most of them are reporting a problem. Which in turn means that it is not an isolated incident where only a few people are having this problem.


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Old 04-29-2002, 10:58 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by Austin
It wouldn't hurt to tone it down Necro.

They *don't* all come that way, and it's *not* how they're made!

My RS - it shifts fine into first gear at any speed in first gear's range if you give the synchros a second to work... No double clutching, no rev matching... in other words, it acts just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should.

My wrx - As it came from the factory, it wouldn't shift into first gear while moving without double clutching. Even with double clutching, you had to be spot on perfect or you'd grind. I had the first and second gear synchros replace by the dealer. Since it's been repaired, it shifts just like the RS - just like a fully synchromeshed transmission should shift.

Here's my guess as to what's going on.

As with most manual transmissions downshifting into 1st puts
added stress on the tranny.

I believe the problem is worse in the rex due to:

* lots of power
* too widely spaced 1st and 2nd gear (meant to allow you to
acheive 60 in 2nd and guarantee the precious 0-60 time in less
than 6 seconds)
* weak syncros.

I think the syncros wear esp. if you don't double clutch and eventually you reach a point wherein they refuse to allow the 2,1
downshift.

My preffered solution?

Free six speeds for everyone.

Meanwhile back on the planet earth -
I recommend you double clutch the 2/1 shift and be gentle with it,
and hopefully the problem won't materalize for you.
That's what I do, and so far (15k+ miles) my 2-1 shift works fine.
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Old 04-29-2002, 01:09 PM   #180
NIN2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by strangerq



Here's my guess as to what's going on.

As with most manual transmissions downshifting into 1st puts
added stress on the tranny.

I believe the problem is worse in the rex due to:

* lots of power
* too widely spaced 1st and 2nd gear (meant to allow you to
acheive 60 in 2nd and guarantee the precious 0-60 time in less
than 6 seconds)
* weak syncros.


It's amazing that even when someone try's to say were all wrong for wanting the problem fixed that guess what? They end up saying the tranny is "weak", "Badly designed", or "They're all that way" lets get it together people.

1. I understand there are a few people out there that are learning how to drive a stick properly and there are some out there that abuse the car.

2. I didn't start this thread to actually try to get a 6 Speed, it would be nice, but I doubt it.

3. I just want to get this resolved. By the end of summer I should have the time to get my new gears in the car. Then you know what? We will just have to see if someone else can build a better gear box than Subaru.

4. When I prove that there is a better designed gear out there that won't produce this problem. I would have to guess that there is only on step after this.

5. We shall see what Subaru has to say to my lawyer. When he slaps them with a class action lawsuit for not resolving a known problem for the Impreza line-up of cars.

6. And to all you supporters of this "WEAK" gear box :monkey:


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Old 04-29-2002, 04:10 PM   #181
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Mine grinds on 2-1 downshift randomly - for 4 different experienced stick drivers in my family.

It seems to happen more often when driving the car for a while, so it could be that the heat over time thins out the fluid, causing pressure loss and erratic clutch control. I admit that I certainly am no mechanic. The heat problem was the case on my Grand National - after a few runs smoking Vettes and Mustangs, the tranny would start to slip a little on the shifts (yes, it's an auto- not a stick). A big external (secondary) tranny cooler fixed the slipping ...
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Old 04-29-2002, 05:25 PM   #182
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Keep it up Nick!
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Old 04-30-2002, 12:46 PM   #183
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Is this 2-1 downshift problem possibly brought on by the fact that the WRX has a turbocharged engine that makes little torque down low in the rev range?

If people are saying that they're have problems in traffic, I mean most cars can be brought up to speed from a standstill in second gear. Can this not be done in the WRX? Is the compression of the motor too low for a comfortable second gear start from a near-standstill, where the turbo is not on boost?

I'm asking because of a couple reasons:

I have a '99 M3 coming off lease and am seriously considering getting a WRX. I think it's the next E30 BMW M3. The '99 M3 has plenty of torque down low and I almost never go to first, even in bumper to bumper traffic (but I do when it comes to a dead stop). My rule of thumb is start in second if the car is rolling at all. Will the Subie disappoint me? Can it not do this?

I guess what I'm saying is I can't understand downshifting to first while the car is still moving. It's not like it's a performance situation; it usually just means you're coming to a stop. Why wear on the clutch/engine/gearbox like that?

I've driven a couple of WRX's and don't remember noticing a problem. Looks like I'll have to check it out.

edit: Would Redline MTL in the gearbox help? I've seen it work wonders in BMW gearboxes!
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Old 04-30-2002, 05:22 PM   #184
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Quote:
My rule of thumb is start in second if the car is rolling at all. Will the Subie disappoint me? Can it not do this?
Go drive one, if you can shift the car into first at reasonable speeds to you, then you found a good one!
The torque from ~1K-2.3K is on par with many small four cylinder cars, definitely feels anemic compared to the power this motor puts out at higher rpm's. However, mine is able to pull second gear from speeds above 5mph or so (bumper to bumper traffic). I am also able to downshift to first if I rev match...so I guess I got lucky.
Bottom line is to test drive the car you intend to drive off the lot to see if it is acceptable to you.
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Old 05-01-2002, 03:55 PM   #185
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My WRX does this as did my 2000 Honda Civic EX coupe with a 5 speed in it. The 1987 Honda Accord sedan with a 5 speed did not do this, but it had 117k miles on it when I bought it. My WRX and Civic both had problems going into Reverse as well. The Civic still had issues with both after 45k miles and as the WRX still does after 7k miles.

I would say it is normal.

If you are sitting at a light, going into 2nd then into 1st before you pull off. Not sure exactly how this helps, but you can tell a difference pushing the shifter into 1st. I think the ratios are lining up better this way.
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Old 08-15-2002, 10:49 PM   #186
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I'm pretty sure the Subaru's have Closed syncro's in first and reverse and open syncro's every else. I beleive this is a design trait not a problem!!
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Old 08-15-2002, 10:58 PM   #187
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sometimes when im rolling at like 5mph i cant get into 1st gear! thats def. not good, i have to be at a dead stop to put it in 1st gear
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Old 08-16-2002, 01:09 AM   #188
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Default KingFan

I have been able to drive my WRX the way you describe driving your M3--starting in 2nd gear as long as the car is moving. I'm sure that the M3 has loads more torque down low however.

I have found that there are situations where I prefer to shift into 1rst though. For example, a slow corner where I want more acceleration coming out than 2nd gear will provide at 10-15 mph. Luckily, my WRX has absolutely no trouble with the 2-1 downshift at any speed up to 25-30 mph. Just out of curiousity I've even been able to get it into first with just light pressure on the shifter at 32-33 mph (of course I didn't engage the clutch at that speed).

I think some drivers expect the 2-1 shift to be lightning fast and it isn't--it can take 1-2 seconds of steady light pressure on the shifter.
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Old 08-16-2002, 01:02 PM   #189
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure the Subaru's have Closed syncro's in first and reverse and open syncro's every else.
There are no syncros in reverse.

Last edited by Stanley; 08-19-2002 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 08-16-2002, 11:24 PM   #190
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Default My situation...

I live in NY. I drive in traffic all the time. I don't baby my car, but I don't beat it to death either. The fact of the matter is, whether you own a WRX or a Ferrari, it is a car and has limitations. If you know the car doesn't shift well into 1st from 2nd, why not accept this and figure out a work around?

I now have 4500 miles on my car and have had no problems. I realize that in no means that I will never have any problems, but so far so good.

Drive with some sense fellas. It's a production Subaru, not a Ferrari F-50. Don't be like the midget who expects to dunk over Michael Jordan. Know your limitations.
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Old 08-16-2002, 11:32 PM   #191
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Default ...and just one more thing.

Free 6 speed trannies are a wish that we all have, but a pipe dream nonetheless.

In the words of Frederick Douglas "You may not get all that you pay for, but you will certainly pay for all that you get".

And in the words of Robert Blake while playing the part of Barretta in the late 70's TV series of the same name, "You can take that to da bank".
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Old 08-17-2002, 10:59 PM   #192
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Default Re: My situation...

Quote:
Originally posted by DRMADLAB
Drive with some sense fellas. It's a production Subaru, not a Ferrari F-50. Don't be like the midget who expects to dunk over Michael Jordan. Know your limitations.
Funny the way things are going, I suspect my limitation is due to all luck and no skill. In other words, I may be able to downshift today, I may not tommorow. And when I can't downshift it's just the limitation that subaru built into the car because they just don't know any better, and I should have (known better) before I bought the thing.

Oh, and to expand on your analogy: I didn't order a midget thinking it would dunk on Jordan, I asked for Larry.
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Old 08-18-2002, 03:47 PM   #193
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Talking

when I first got my WRX I couldnt go from second to first,
even if I was in second, slowing to go over a speed bump then trying to get it into first, because I was hardly moving
second the car bogs, even going throug a security gate where you roll through, but not even at 1 MPH
it was annoying, but I have 20K on the car! now it is fine
I think i only noticed it in the winter when i left for work
now it 100 degrees in the AM, so i dont notice
What I do hate about this car, is that I cant stop driving the darn thing maybe its the Hydraulic fluid in the Clutch,
Sometimes I used to double clutch, the WRX clutch is not cable like other cars
maybe first as reverse are just that way. So I can go into first going over a speed bump, but every so often I get that stupid
reverse grind, and putting into second doesnt always correct it
maybe its the design of the slave or master cylinders
maybe these trannies wouldnt blow if they has stronger hydrolics
in addition to the clutch?

just a thought

cheers

Last edited by dolbnyc1; 08-18-2002 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 07:08 PM   #194
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I'm meeting the SOA rep about this problem tomorrow. My first gear grinds fom neutral at a stop. I've never drag raced with this car. I'll let you know what SOA says.
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Old 08-20-2002, 07:54 PM   #195
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Default I truly apologize.

Hey everyone. I sincerely apologize to anyone who is having a real problem with their car. I was never referring to anyone who has a legit mechanical problem. But I think all of us would agree that there are those who abuse what they drive whether it be a Kia or a Bentley, or anything in between.

Since I've read this thread, I have been concious of when I shift and how I shift. I mean hey. I am the first to acknowledge that I don't know every muthaeffin thing.

While I still don't have any problems going from 2nd to 1st, I have noticed that sometimes getting my car into reverse takes some doing. Since I had the same problem with my 98' Outback Sport, I simply chalked it up to being a "Subaru thing".

Let me know if anything materializes with the SOA meeting.

Thanks.

P.S. Typing seems to be a lot easier than talking when one's foot is in his mouth.
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Old 08-20-2002, 08:07 PM   #196
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Default Re: 2002 WRX 2nd to 1st Downshift issue

Cheaper to put in a 6 spd tranny? You forgot little details like federal type approval.

Quote:
Originally posted by NIN2001
OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick
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Old 08-20-2002, 08:13 PM   #197
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Default Re: 2002 WRX 2nd to 1st Downshift issue

Cheaper to put in a 6 spd tranny? You forgot little details like federal type approval.

Quote:
Originally posted by NIN2001
OK... I need everyone here that has a new WRX that is having this tranny issue to e-mail me. I am going to go to my regional Subaru rep this month. I had to wait for a month and a half for her to drive my car because the mechanics assesment of the situation wasn't good enough for Subaru Tech. Crap I tell you, well please send me and e-mail if you are experiencing the same trouble as many of us are send and e-mail to Nick@WRXTuner.com I would like to take as many cases of this problem with me if you can include the last 8 digits of your VIN that would be great as well this way they may actually contact you about the problem if they can't resolve it after 3 tries they have to lemon law the car... or if I get my way...our way... I want the STI 6 speed gear box. You see it would be cheaper for them to replace the tranny with the 6 speed then to give me every penny I paid for the car including interest. Just some food for thought. Send me an e-mail so we can fight this thing together maybe we can get a resolution.

Nick
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Old 08-21-2002, 07:30 PM   #198
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Kingfan---I think Redline 70NS90 does help shifting, even the second to first low speed shift (and I think the STI ss kit with kartboy bushings help too). We all know this tranny doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence (the tranny whine off throttle isn't exacly a comforting sound), but it appears sufficient so far for most cars, except for the 2nd to first issue, and most buyers, at least on this web site, were aware of the tranny limitations and the fact this tranny apparantly was designed years ago for cars with far less horsepower than the WRX. You know, everyone thinks the 6 speed is a panacea, but given the history of Subaru and their trannys I think the jury is out even on the new 6-speed. Porsche and BMW,e.g. have devoted years and years and tons of money to develop transmissions commensurate with their motors. I just don't think Subaru has that history. I hope they will develop a more worthy tranny for this car now that they have a foothold in our market for high performance cars. I wouldn't be surprised if they started putting the 6-speed in all WRXs in the future and just forget about this old 5 speed design. Most customers would gladly pay a little more in a WRX to have that tranny. The U.S. customers will be more demanding perhaps than the rest of the world and maybe that's a good thing.
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Old 08-21-2002, 08:26 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Kingfan---I think Redline 70NS90 does help shifting, even the second to first low speed shift (and I think the STI ss kit with kartboy bushings help too). We all know this tranny doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence (the tranny whine off throttle isn't exacly a comforting sound), but it appears sufficient so far for most cars, except for the 2nd to first issue, and most buyers, at least on this web site, were aware of the tranny limitations and the fact this tranny apparantly was designed years ago for cars with far less horsepower than the WRX. You know, everyone thinks the 6 speed is a panacea, but given the history of Subaru and their trannys I think the jury is out even on the new 6-speed. Porsche and BMW,e.g. have devoted years and years and tons of money to develop transmissions commensurate with their motors. I just don't think Subaru has that history. I hope they will develop a more worthy tranny for this car now that they have a foothold in our market for high performance cars. I wouldn't be surprised if they started putting the 6-speed in all WRXs in the future and just forget about this old 5 speed design. Most customers would gladly pay a little more in a WRX to have that tranny. The U.S. customers will be more demanding perhaps than the rest of the world and maybe that's a good thing.
The 5-speed in the WRX is better than the 5-speed was in my 93 RX-7 Twin Turbo.

If the STI repalces the WRX (likely), look for no changes to the WRX. (BTW, expect the STI to be priced about the same as a 350Z and expect it to eprform as well.)

European customers, judging from English magazines, are more demanding than we are.
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Old 08-22-2002, 08:31 AM   #200
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Default STI replacing WRX? NO!!!

If that STI really looks like that picture that was on I-club a few days ago, they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. I would rather keep my present car and modify it so performs even better than that ugly contraption.

On top of it all, I hear all this talk about "limited availability". If it looks like the car I saw, for me it couldn't be limited enough.

Looks like I'll be entering the new STI on the same list as PT Cruiser, Mitsubishi Lancer, and Pontiac Aztec on my list of ugly ***** I'd never buy.
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