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Old 11-03-2001, 04:43 PM   #1
KillerTHC
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Unhappy More AEM woes

apparently, not only does the intake not allow for an aftermarket strut bar, it also does not clear the hood well. so under accel, braking or anything else, it rubs against the washer fluid hose mounts and creates this squeaking noise now that the red paint has been removed. so freakin annoying! AEM needs to re-work their intake.
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Old 11-03-2001, 05:09 PM   #2
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Or people need to buy one of the many good intakes on the market instead.


Ben
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Old 11-03-2001, 06:13 PM   #3
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see what happens when you take a honda company and they try to build NON-Honda parts.

That sucks dude, send it back.

jeremy
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Old 11-04-2001, 01:11 AM   #4
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I don't have any problems with the intake clearing the hood. But mine is held down by my strut tower brace. I stuck a piece of soft rubber in to stop it from making any noise. I used to have a some hard rubber there (some left over hose that came with the intake) and it make the nasties, loudest squawks.

On a side note, mine has a dent just past the U bend. Anyone know if this is normal or if mine got messed up during shipping?

~Alan

Here check it out.
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Old 11-05-2001, 12:47 AM   #5
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I haven't had any problems with mine yet, other than the incredible loss of low end power. I've got over two inches of clearance between it and the strut tower brace, and there are no signs of it rubbing against anything.

-Mike
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Old 11-06-2001, 02:55 AM   #6
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Sounds like you need a GanzFlow

Larry
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Old 11-06-2001, 10:53 AM   #7
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until about how many rpm do you loose you low end power?

cause you dont really need low rpm power cause the maximum power is in the higher rpm which the aem improve a lot
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:13 AM   #8
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Sorry, guys, but I dont know where this misnomer came from that you dont need low end power. I mean do you launch your car at 4500 rpm every time. The 2.5 is a torque engine. It will never love life above 5000 rpm. Its cammed for torque, the heads are sized to improve torque. Any intake that causes you to loose low end torque on these cars is like cutting off one of your legs. Our cars must have low end grunt to move our little heavy bottoms off the line and make the car more driveable.

Just a thought folks. But loosing low end power is a serious no no. On a honda, I can see it, they rev clear past 8 grand, but on a RS, I cant see the point of making our lovely broad powerband a small narrow spike. Think torque folks, do anything to increase torque, and HP will come.

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Old 11-06-2001, 06:39 PM   #9
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my AEM clears my whiteline strutbar fine, and it does not rub on anything...was it installed rite? from what i see in the pic posted by doorknob, the hoses that were included in the kit are on wrong but it is working fine for him so thats cool. .the metal tube that comes with the kit goes on the right side of the intake...then you measure and cut the required amount of hose needed....slide the metal tube in the factory hose then the newly cut piece of hose onto the other half of the metal tube and tighten the clamps... then attach to the intake. so now the hose on the right is made longer by the addition of the metal tube and the new piece of hose...the rest of the hose that came with the kit replaces the hose that is on the left side of the intake. and then the last hose, the longer factory hose, fits up to the AEM intake(the long tube section) .....then make sure all the factory air box mounting brackets are removed..there are 2 of them, and the intake is bolted to the engine using one of the bolts that were removed while removing the brackets. i have had no problem with noise, clearance, or performance loss...all gain....just make sure that you installed it properly. doorknob, there are no bends in the j bend, it probably got bent in shipping.
and hndatch627 dont even start this "honda" company building non honda parts crap....because thats BS. honda,mitsu,toyota,nissan, all had products...

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Old 11-06-2001, 10:47 PM   #10
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that's why im asking about until which rpm do you loose power, cause i dont really stand under 3k rpm when driving, only in first, maybe second, but even there. I know the subaru is not a honda and it does not rev until 8k but the purpose of an intake as i see it is to improve the best of what you have, and the max hp is at 5600k and mx torque is at 4k, so low en power is no big deal imho.
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Old 11-07-2001, 11:14 AM   #11
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I agree, the purpose of an intake is to improve what you have. The subaru has a Broad flat torque curve. Thats why it pulls so easily in just about any gear. Even at 1500 rpm in 4th or 5th, the engine can accelerate the car without much fuss. Every engine has a peak, but that is only about 25% of the story of its power band. You need to look into the overall powerband.

For instance...

If you can gain 10 HP with an intake (which of course you wont) at 5600 rpm but in turn you loose 10 HP below 3000, you will probably be a slower car than a car that gained only 5 HP across the rpm band.

I know you mentioned that you never drive below 3 grand. Well I dont think you have really given that much thought. We all drive below 3 grand quite often. Unless you are a race car driver, which of course your not (well I cant say that for sure because I dont know you, but I think its safe to say you hold down a regular job, or are in school), then you probably dont keep your engine on boil all day long. But just for kicks I will drive to lunch today and see if I can keep my engine somewhat above 3 grand. Who knows it may be easier than I think, but I doubt it.

I wish you luck in the long run, I just wanted to give you a valuable peice of advice. Its up to you to either use it or ignore it.

Have a great day!

SCRAPPYDO
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Old 11-07-2001, 09:25 PM   #12
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I lose power until around 3.5-4K. I lose so much that the car is dangerous to drive when pulling out in heavy traffic. Around town, I really have to drive it hard to avoid getting run over. This might have something to do with Cobb Stage 1 cams, though, but I have a feeling it's the intake.

-Mike
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Old 11-07-2001, 11:22 PM   #13
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now that i got numbers

i think i'll forget about aem

looked nice but loose power until 3.5 k too much lost


i tought loosing power until around 2.5k but 3.5 it's too high

thanx
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Old 11-11-2001, 04:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoorKnob
I don't have any problems with the intake clearing the hood. But mine is held down by my strut tower brace. I stuck a piece of soft rubber in to stop it from making any noise. I used to have a some hard rubber there (some left over hose that came with the intake) and it make the nasties, loudest squawks.

On a side note, mine has a dent just past the U bend. Anyone know if this is normal or if mine got messed up during shipping?

~Alan
Wow! I see that you have the STi carbon fiber strut bar. Where did you get yours?
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Old 11-11-2001, 10:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SCRAPPYDO


For instance...

If you can gain 10 HP with an intake (which of course you wont) at 5600 rpm but in turn you loose 10 HP below 3000, you will probably be a slower car than a car that gained only 5 HP across the rpm band.

SCRAPPYDO
stephen
and i wish to give you a valuable piece of advice, that 10hp loss below 3000rpm that you talk about, is exactly why you install a header, to gain the power loss down low back, plus more..



OK, for what i really wanted to know..
Who sells the aem intake, and how much do they go for..
my subaru needs some go fast parts, cuz it doesn't go very fast..
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:02 AM   #16
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Thanks for the advice, interesting peice of information.

I have been playing with cars and engines for quite some time, on the order of 15 years now and counting. Headers USUALLY do not give you anything down low. They are made to free up High RPM horsepower. Larger tube headers, like ALL the ones available for our cars, increase HIGH rpm horsepower with a slight loss of low end. I have yet to see a header for the RS that you would not loose HP down low. By the very nature of the design of a header you usually loose some low end grunt.

The borla has time and time again been said to do nothing or actually loose low end HP.

As for the Brullen, I have serious doubts to its claimed HP numbers and acceleration times. From what I have heard they are extremely optimistic.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I am a realist, and most of what I say is not based on what I have read, but on what I have tried and seen with my own eyes.

If you are relying on a free flowing header to give you 10+ HP down low, then I think you may be extremely disappointed, and a lot lighter in the wallet. I am only trying to tell you this to help. The Honda world has totally skewed peoples thinking on what works and what does not. I think everybody should be forced to build a muscle car, of sorts. A good old fashioned V8 road burner. Everything being done today is just building on what people who have turned wrenches since the 50's already know. Intakes pipes leading to the carb and mufflers were just toys to guys who knew how to build a real engine.
Today we are engulfed with bolt on parts that claim huge HP increases, because the computer has taken the work out of hot rodding. And removed any actual skill that it used to take to build a fast car. Now you just buy an intake, and muffler and you gained 25 HP, WOW! But I digress.
That is a different subject all together. On this I will just say that you should talk to people who have worked around cars for years, and learn what a certain part will do from people who actually have tried. Believing what an article says about a part from somebody selling it is a sure way to end up with an engine that does not do what you are hoping it will do.

My advice is in good faith buddy, I hope it helps.

SCRAPPYDO
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:26 AM   #17
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[quote]Originally posted by synapse79
[b]

and i wish to give you a valuable piece of advice, that 10hp loss below 3000rpm that you talk about, is exactly why you install a header, to gain the power loss down low back, plus more..
posted by synapse79

If you have no clue about what your writing about then don't write it at all!!! Installing a header will lose even more low end torque while adding a bunch more on the top end. Remember that backpressure is what helps lowend torque, and when you decrease backpressure (headers, catback system) you also decrease low end torque. Sorry if this was too harsh but i get angry when people try arguing something that they know nothing or very little about. Please don't fill people's minds with false information.
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:07 PM   #18
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it must of been a sorry 15 years.. and i hate inefficient american ****..

how do you propose you gain torque then, take the stock exhaust manifold off and replace it with half inch pipe.. thats a good idea.. if you look at a any dyno sheet, you will gain torque with a header.. provided you have an intake and a good exhaust system..
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:29 PM   #19
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You know it never ceases to amaze me how when people are intellectually beaten they resort to gross generalizations and foul language. Neither of which is constructive or educational. You continue to show how much you don't know by making statements like this:

"…if you look at a any dyno sheet, you will gain torque with a header.."

Any dyno sheet I want huh. Think about what an absurd statement that is. The truth is that you WILL gain torque with a header. But at the HIGH end of the RPM band. Nobody said you will loose torque completely. Only down low.

Now to the comment about inefficient American ****. I had no idea about your age or experience level until you wrote that statement. In one sentence you told me a few things:

1) I have never actually built an engine
2) I have never picked up a torque wrench to tighten a set of main bearing caps
3) I believe that an aluminum tube and a muffler are key to building "big" power
4) I have no clue how an engine actually works, and have no desire to
5) I have never actually ridden in a car so fast it will scare you.

You see here is the kicker. Those who cut their teeth building "inefficient American" cars had to do something that kids now a days don't do. We had to learn how an engine works. Intake velocities, cam durations, metallurgy, intake runner length vs RPM powerband. IN short we had to learn what makes an engine good and what makes an engine bad.

The fact American hot rodders don't respect imports is because of people just like yourself. Tell you what will happen. You take your Twin Turbo Supra engine, crank the boost until the turbos glow, then take that engine and put it into a fiberglass tube frame chassis. I will take my 3950 lbs all steel 66 chevelle, powered by a pushrod "low tech" V8 and I will make more power and still stomp that supra into the ground. Inefficient American engines have been making more horsepower and more torque than any Honda, Subaru, Toyota can ever hope to achieve. You don't like American engines because it takes mechanical skill to make power. You cant but a shiny tube turn a hose clamp and call it a "tuned" engine.

Sorry to come off harsh, but when you attack America in any sort of way, it perturbs me. When you insult things that you have no clue of what you are talking about it just plain irritates me. So I would like the moderators to close this forum. It has long since become non productive, and its partially my fault. But I would rather have a tread closed than to have misinformation spread as jbdesros mentioned.

I wish you all the luck, again. I hope some of this sinks in and we can continue to see you on this great board!

SCRAPPYDO
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:17 PM   #20
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.. lemme stick in my few cents here.. *reaches into pocket*

I believe there's a reason why "kids these days" doesn't know about "Intake velocities, cam durations, metallurgy, intake runner length vs RPM powerband." We don't HAVE to. Metallurgy? Why the heck would we know that? Most of the metals that come OEM are of such high-quality that there's little except for the waaaaaaay extreme high-end (think Stephen Papadakis) can reasonably do anything to fix it.

I'll totally agree with you about dumba$$ pseudo-car peeps. I went to a HS where the graduating class had like.. 15 Civic Sis and god knows how many tegs. I think there were maybe, two, myself included, who actually has an inkling of an idea wats goin on.

"Hey.. your car seems to be bouncing a lot."
"yah man, I just bought these slamming springs and cut them."
*sigh*

Although I did'nt live in the "muscle car" era, I'm sure that these simliar posers existed.

As for the inefficiency? The aforementioned Papadakis is running in the low 8s on 2.2liters of displacement and four cylinders. Saruwatari is projected to run in the 6s with his 3.2L 6 cylinder. And, well, Jun just hit 249MPH with a 3.0L six cylinder. Honda was getting 1500+hp from a 1.5L V6 from qualifying engines. A Mustang GT gets what? 320hp from 4.6L = 69.5hp/L. That's about as bad as our beloved 2.5RS! 165hp/2.5 = 66. Heehee, I love her anywayz though.

Don
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:46 PM   #21
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It sounds like you know where I am coming from Don for the most part. But I really dont follow Import drag racing. To me its like watching minor league baseball. They will aways be slower than the "big boys" if you will.

As for the mustang GT vs Honda or Jun, or whoever, lets be fair here. You are comparing a one off professionally built race engine to a mass produced production car engine. Not hardly fair.. ha ha.

If you want to look at race engines to race engines, a top fuel dragsters produce way over 6000 HP. That comes pretty close to 1000 HP per liter, but lets not get too picky. American V8's only produce the power they do becuase we cant all be driving 500 HP cars on the street. The factory just gives us what they feel we need. HP/liter really means nothing. Its a neat tool to argue with and sell cars with, but its a fad. In the old days the magic phrase was HP/cubic inch. Nobody really cares about that any more. Times will change again I am sure.

Well I do have to take issure about what "kids" (sorry for that generalization, I think I am still a kid, so no bad conotations meant) need to know.

Kids need to know these things becasue it helps them understand whats going on inside an engine. It helps them in seperating gimic parts from actual performance parts. It lets them know that Headers dont give you massive gains in low end performance. Metallurgy is essencial. Piston material, valve properties, metal weight vs strength trade offs are all important in putting together a powerful package that will last longer than a week.

You cant have to much knowledge. The more you know about the internals of the engine the more educated you can purchase parts, and the more you will seperate yourself from the magazine tuners, the bolt on superheros, and the name droppers out their. If you truely understand the physics of the engine and the dynamics of the parts inside it you can automatically move yourself up into a level of tuning that all the chrome, aluminum, and decals cant reach.

Dont rule out "old" technology. Todays engines are just a few derivations from the old flathead Fords of 60 years ago. All the lights, wires, and sensors are just ways to do the same old job with less pollution. They still have pistons, heads, and cranks. The means to make power have not changed, just the means to produce that power has become far cleaner.

All I ask is to keep an open mind. Learn about these things. Learn about the forces and physics inside your engine. You will build faster, and more reliable and driveable cars! That I promise you.

SCRAPPYDO
stephen

Take care!
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Old 11-12-2001, 02:31 PM   #22
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Heh, what I wouldn't do to have my scooby injector free and put in a carburator!

I really actually never knew a whole lot about the workings of a car until I got the Impreza.

I know what you mean about some of the folks hanging around the import scene. I would have been the same guy if I hadn't read up on some stuff before I started. I thought I was going to get an RS and just bolt on a turbo and boost it until I had 300hp! Now I know that you need to prep the internals, or you will be shopping for a new engine. I now understand compression ratios, rotational mass, backpressure and low end torque. Just some of the things us gear head (wannabes too) need to know about.

But don't necessarily think American Muscle is the end all be all of the world of tuning. I think the Italians, Germans, and English can still show us a thing or two...

jm2c

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Old 11-12-2001, 03:28 PM   #23
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Scrappydo, I agree with you completely as far as the need for old cars go. my first car was a 1970 lincoln continental mark III that some nutjob dropped a 429 cobra jet into. I can't imagine how many horsies that 7-liter pushrod monstrosity was pushing, but it was plenty. I think everyone should start with one of these types of cars. You learn a lot about everything cause its like playing with building blocks. everything's real big, real tough, and real easy to manipulate. I never used a socket smaller than 10mm (hell, I didn't even use metric sockets back then) till I got an import. There's tons of space to move around in, and the parts are dirt cheap. Sure there's no grace or ergonomics with it all, but I know so much more about cars than I ever would have if my first car was a Honda.

My power steering pump went out on my lincoln. it would have been a 700 dollar job to have the system replaced in the shop. I went to the pick-apart yard with a bag full of tools. I tore a power steering box off an old T-bird, spent 20 bucks at the gate, and then a few curse-filled hours taking apart half the systems in my car trying to take out the old one and put in the new one. Even before the NM-12 foxcars, the t-bird, cougar, and lincoln mark were basically the same car. What did I learn from all this? just how almost half the systems on my car worked. I was 17 at the time, and 2 weeks into car ownership of any sort. going into the job, I knew how to change oil, rotate tires, and put in a set of sparks. Not only did I gain valuable car knowledge, I also saved quite a bit of cash. $680 aint too shabby any way you slice it.

If something breaks, you fix it or replace it. Don't know what the he|| you're doing? look in the shop manual. No good instructions in teh shop manual? learn how. Thats how learnning happens. what do you think the people that wrote the shop manuals did? on every Chilton's manual it says "based on a complete teardown and rebuild. all you need is a little testosterone and elbow grease. beer helps. borrow some from your trunkmonkey. BTW, back in the day, they were trunk gorillas. they drank it by the keg.

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Old 11-12-2001, 05:43 PM   #24
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i have built/re-built a b18a from the ground up with new bearings cams adj, cam gears, and a felpro gasket set, oh and total seal piston rings, among other mods. and i ran it in scca street mod for two years and did fairly well.. i would consitantly get my ass kicked by a civic with a limited slip kaaz diff, but thats besides the point..

i then realized that i could only go so far with cars, and the parts cost was getting out of hand so i sold the car and bought a motorcycle, road bike.. i was going to get into club racing but i wrecked the bike twice before i was able to go to a racing school for a racing liscens.. so then i bought a 98 subaru cuz my diamante was starting to blow smoke, and i didn't want to deal with that.. now im saving to buy another bike in the spring, and trying to get some performance parts for my suby here and there..

and that brings me to you telling me i don't know anything about anything, yet you haven't told me anything knowledgeable but you seem to talk like you know everything..

i still think pushrod eights are a waste of time.. kind of like nascar..
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Old 11-13-2001, 09:45 AM   #25
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I agree on teh NASCAR point, Synapse. Gimme LeMans any day.

-IggDawg
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