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Old 11-03-2001, 07:14 PM   #1
FormerSubTech
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Question what's the real deal on headers (equal length vs. borla)

I've scanned the archives and see that there are a few header options available (or available soon). the main difference seems to be ceramic coating and equal length tubes.

I know that traditionally, equal length tubes was the reason one would purchase headers.

with respect to our 2.5 SOHC subie motors, what are the arguments on ewual length vs. stagered like the borla?

thanks
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Old 11-03-2001, 07:15 PM   #2
Eric SS
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Not sure of thedifference but like you mentioned, if you are going ot get a header, make it equal length

Eric
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Old 11-03-2001, 07:24 PM   #3
FormerSubTech
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why? that's the question.
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Old 11-03-2001, 07:45 PM   #4
Eric SS
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Oh, well, equal length headers make sure that the exhaust pulses reach the collectors at a different time so that you don;t have to worry about no pulses hitting the collector and then all of a sudden two pulses hit it at the same time. This is what causes (some) backpressure. The fact that more air is in one area and a lot less is in another area of the exhaust. The idea of an equal length header is to smooth out the amount of air in any given area of the exhaust. THat is it in a nutshell but I can write more info if needed

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Old 11-03-2001, 07:59 PM   #5
FormerSubTech
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so who are the makers of equal lenght headers? hopefully they'll fit a forester as well.
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Old 11-03-2001, 08:01 PM   #6
Eric SS
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I'm not sure if anyone makes an ELH for our cars yet. anyone know?

Eric
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Old 11-03-2001, 09:10 PM   #7
Faraz
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Brullen and SYMS
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Old 11-03-2001, 09:15 PM   #8
Patrick Olsen
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MRT makes an equal length setup for the Legacy and Impreza, not sure about the Forester. Is the underside of the Forester appreciable different than the Impreza? Both vehicles are based on the same platform, so I would think that even if MRT doesn't specifically make a Forester exhaust, the Impreza one should work.

The header comes as part of a full exhaust system (header with integrated hi-flow cat, mid-pipe, and muffler section). Because the header outlet is in a completely different location than the stock header outlet, the exhaust is only sold as a complete kit. However, the outlet of the mid-pipe is the same as stock, so any aftermarket muffler section that bolts up to the stock exhaust will also bolt up to the MRT header/cat/mid-pipe.

I have the full MRT setup on my car and I'm very happy with it. One of these days I'll even get off my lazy butt and get some pictures with the car up on a lift. If you do a search for "MRT exhaust" and the username "Julian" you should find a thread or two that have pictures of his system before install.

Pat Olsen
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Old 11-03-2001, 10:22 PM   #9
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found the thread... sou you're happy with it now? you seemed disappointed in the original thread. so the whole system seems to be only slightly more than just a borla header.

did you ever get the headers coated and did that help the O2 sensor problem?

what happened to low end torque and mid range (my wife will be driving the car most of the time)?
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Old 11-04-2001, 10:16 AM   #10
Patrick Olsen
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Hmmm, I don't remember what I had said in previous posts, but I don't think I was ever disappointed. I never had an O2 sensor problem with mine (no CEL except for the time I was driving around with no downstream O2 sensor at all). Newer cars seem to have the CEL problems, and I think a few guys have never been able to resolve that issue.

I did get the header coated, but that was more for longevity and appearance sake. It cost about $55 to get the cat cut off the header and a flange installed between the header and cat, and then $150 to get the header coated by Airborn Coatings www.airborncoatings.com . I had to get the cat cut off or they would not have been able to do a full internal coating of the header.

I did some testing to see how the MRT affected the powerband - you can read about the results here: http://i-club.com/forums/showthread....&highlight=MRT . I never got around to doing the lower RPM (1750-3000rpm or whatever) testing, but I would say based on seat of the pants that under 2500rpm or so the car feels a bit sluggish. From 2500rpm on up there's no doubt the car has more power.

An AWD dyno recently opened up in Massachusetts, I might (if I get motivated or get a couple guys to help me) take the car there and do runs with stock and MRT exhaust to see what the exhaust really does.

Pat
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Old 11-05-2001, 08:42 AM   #11
DTR00GT
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Guys, there's a GB happening right now for equal lenght headers :


16 Gauge Stainless T304 that's coated w/ a high flow cat. Here is a snipit of the performance gain....

Stock:
0-60 = 8.1 Sec (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 16.14 @ 86 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 115 (average of 3 runs)

Stock + Brullen Cat Back exhaust:
0 - 60 = 7.4 (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 15.39 @ 90 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 121 (average of 3 runs)

Header + 2.25 Cat Back exhaust:
0 - 60 = 6.91 (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 14.94 @ 92 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 136 (average of 3 runs)

Find the rest at :

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=1
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Old 11-05-2001, 10:26 PM   #12
SubaDan
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PHEWW Thats a lot of money. Theres a guy around here called Revolution Motorsports whos making an uneven header for around $250. It will be completely bolt on and unfortunaly uneven but you could save $1000 in the process.
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Old 11-05-2001, 10:56 PM   #13
DTR00GT
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No doubt its coin. But ask yourself, why are you buying headers? Is it not for performance?!

At least with the Brullen, you know what you will be paying for....
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Old 11-05-2001, 10:59 PM   #14
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Then you have to ask yourself, nice dinners for a while or beans and rice for a few month. paying rent or living in the Suby, but if you got the money buy me one too. HEHE I do agree with you its just that that price it really high
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Old 11-06-2001, 02:26 AM   #15
karl_hungus
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubaDan
PHEWW Thats a lot of money. Theres a guy around here called Revolution Motorsports whos making an uneven header for around $250. It will be completely bolt on and unfortunaly uneven but you could save $1000 in the process.
You do realize that the $1250 price was posted in Canadian dollars right??
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Old 11-06-2001, 01:47 PM   #16
SubaDan
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Then what was the US dollars. I acctually thought that they were the same. Stupid me.
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Old 11-06-2001, 02:07 PM   #17
ylexot
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Here's the price info (with comparisons):
Introductory Price: $1125.00 Canadian $749.00 USD
MSRP Standard Price: $1425.00 Canadian $949.00 USD

Current Brullen Owners get an additional discount of $60.00 for a total of $689.00 for the Brullen Header

Note, for comparison sake see below:

SYMS Equal Length Headers from Japan without Cat $1533.00 USD + High Flow Cat $300.00 USD = $1833.00 USD

Borla non equal length headers US $495.00 USD + High Flow Cat $300.00 USD = $795.00 USD ($1192.50 Canadian)

SubaDan - just for future reference, money is controlled by the government, so money from different contries is worth different amounts...even CAD vs USD
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:38 PM   #18
DTR00GT
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Funny, but with your dollar almost worth twice as much in Canadian, I'd think you'ed do all your 'shopping' here.
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