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Old 09-29-2006, 07:47 PM   #1
kn0bby8
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Default Meth Corosion

On a local board I read that Meth being used on a daily driver is proabbly not the best thing to do. Basically using meth everyday will casue engine problems sooner or later due to the fact that it is so corrosive. The poster was saying that not all of it gets combusted and it will eat away at the internals of the engine.

I know people have been injecting denaturated for a long time but what about meth?
Whats the deal?
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Last edited by kn0bby8; 09-30-2006 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:59 PM   #2
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Well............there is your solution....use ALKY, it will make a little less power but not nearly as corrosive.
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JMK508 View Post
Well............there is your solution....use ALKY, it will make a little less power but not nearly as corrosive.
My car is getting tuned fo 50/50 meth water. denaturated is also corsive just not as bad as meth. I just may have to change but I will def need some more info before I do.

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Old 09-29-2006, 10:16 PM   #4
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Damn, I guess I knew there had to be a downside to meth/alchy/water injection. How much less corrosive is alchohol compared to methanol? How big of an issue is it really?
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kn0bby8 View Post
On a local board I read that Meth being used on a daily driver is proabbly not the best thing to do. Basically using meth everyday will casue engine problems sooner or later due to the fact that it is so corrosive. The poster was saying that not all of it gets combusted and it will eat away at the internals of the engine.

I know people have been injecting alcohol for a long time but what about meth?
Whats the deal?
I dont see an engine problem with good oil and oil changes.If you are going to run alky meth a lot like ever weekend you can get oil from Motul and outhers that is formulated to fight off more than normal amounts of fuel alcohol nitro ect in you oil.We did run this on a SBC drag car http://www.hilborninjection.com/prod...d=16&CatId=117 on alcohol after ever use the alky line was removed race gas ran and the alky tank removed.If you run corrosive fuel its a lot of maintenance!Brad
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:49 PM   #6
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I plan to spray my meth every day as this car is my daily driver.
How many other out there run meth everyday?
With an oil change every 3000 miles is it safe?
I think I may be getting a tune for 50/50 alcohol water sooner than later.
Someone talk me out of it!
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Old 09-30-2006, 06:16 AM   #7
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From what I've heard, ethonal is better for your car, the economy, and the planet then methonal. You can also make it for less then $2 a gallon.

peace
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Old 09-30-2006, 07:29 AM   #8
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From what I've heard, ethonal is better for your car, the economy, and the planet then methonal. You can also make it for less then $2 a gallon.

peace
Please point in the direction of some good etanl threads or links.
Does it make the same power increase as meth/denaturated?
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Old 09-30-2006, 01:00 PM   #9
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From what I've heard, ethonal is better for your car, the economy, and the planet then methonal. You can also make it for less then $2 a gallon.

peace
.....hippy got him a still goin'.....
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Old 09-30-2006, 02:08 PM   #10
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Anyone on here into chemistry and want to describe the differences in the corrosive properties of ethanol, methanol, and alcohol?
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Old 09-30-2006, 02:59 PM   #11
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Anyone on here into chemistry and want to describe the differences in the corrosive properties of ethanol, methanol, and alcohol?
I know that methanol is more corosive than denaturated alcohol and thats probably all that matters. Denaturated has ben used for a long time and has shown little ill effects. Methanol is fairly new. My main concern is what is gonna happen to my motor if I am running meth/distilled 50/50 every day. How bad am I hurting the motor? Is there anyone out ther that has been using meth on a daily basis for a decent amount of time now?

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Old 09-30-2006, 03:56 PM   #12
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From what I've found methanol and ethanol are both corrosive, even when mixed with water.

I can't find any good info about the corrosive properties about denatured alcohol. Just a lot of people saying its not corrosive like methanol.

The funny thing is denatured alcohol is simply a ethyl alcohol (ethanol) with something added to make it unfit to drink(usually methyl alcohol, methanol).
So why would it not be corrosive?

If it is only 'less corrosive', that means either way you're going to have corrosion. With 50/50 you're only putting at most 10-15 gallons per year thru you engine(80% of which gets combusted, so its really 2-3), I would just say screw it and use methanol for less money and better performance.

Oh I did find find that adding 1%(no omre or less) water to methanol eliminates its corrosive properties. So you crazy people running 100% meth could do that.

Last edited by vica153; 09-30-2006 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 09-30-2006, 04:22 PM   #13
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There are basically 4 kinds of alcohol classified by the molecular stucture, primarily the number of carbons. Methanol is a 1 carbon alcohol. Ethanol is 2, Propanol is 3 and Butanol is 4. When people talk about denatured alcohol it's E100 or 100% ethanol with some meth added to differentiate it from Everclear. It kinda annoys me when people just say alcohol.

Here is a good write up.
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Old 09-30-2006, 04:58 PM   #14
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From Snow's Website:
Quote:
Will water/methanol harm my engine?
In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.
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Old 09-30-2006, 05:37 PM   #15
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From Snow's Website:
What is 2 years? Weekends at the track? Day to day?
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Old 09-30-2006, 06:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by kn0bby8 View Post
Please point in the direction of some good etanl threads or links.
Does it make the same power increase as meth/denaturated?
<edit> Check out methanol and ethanol on wikipedia.com..... From what I've heard methanol is better at cooling things, and ethanol has 32% more energy. Ie-Meth will cool things down more, and ethanol will produce more power when lit. On the subject of corrosiveness, our cars can run fine for a long time(maybe hundreds of thousands of miles) with a given percent of ethanol in the mix, because our cars are made to be able to do that. Methanol on the other hand carries with it the stigma of being able to corrode aluminum parts quickly. Certain oils might help, but from what I've heard, ethonal doesn't carry with it the same stigma. Course that's just what I've heard.....

peace

Last edited by hippy; 09-30-2006 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:19 PM   #17
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somewhat anecdotal but still on topic, i've run countless racecars on straight methanol and the only detrimental thing i've ever seen was the cam gears of a remote mount fuel pump seize from corrosion because the methanol stayed in it for about two years, after having run on another car for countless previous years. usually i just see clean combustion chambers if anything.

in practical applications like meth/H2o inj. the only drawback i could see is replacing the inj. components over time, and i mean like over three years w/ the components most kits are made from.

believe it or not there is more corrosion associated w/ an improper mix of propyleneglycol in engine coolant, corroding the cylinder liners, water pump, and any alluminum components than any corrosion in intake runners, and combustion chambers from meth/H2o inj.
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Old 10-03-2006, 04:35 PM   #18
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If you run methanol daily use a mixture, when mixed with water its corrosive properties decrease quite a bit, but it still is corrosive. There is a reason companies like snow performance only warrantee their pumps for 50% methanol...I believe the benefits outwieght the negatives because your motor will run better on meth, ie it won't knock, more power with safer tune, etc...I have been running meth daily about 50+ gallons so far through my evo and I have seen zero ill effects so far, but thats not to say eventually I won't...
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Old 10-04-2006, 12:05 PM   #19
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Even in a daily driver you are not using it daily. Only when you hit target boost, say 7psi, so in theory you are only using it when you get on it. The rest of the time it is not being injected in the engine.
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Old 10-09-2006, 09:34 AM   #20
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Okay --- enough already !

Meth is the street slang for an illegal drug Methamphetamine, would you guys please take the 2 seconds and spell out Methanol. If you don't have the attention span to do that you probably should not be tuning an engine!

Alcohol without any qualification, refers to an entire class of chemicals and is useless when discussing the differences in the various alcohols. This is no different than the term petroleum, which includes gasoline, but is in no way is useful to discuss the differences between gasoline and kerosine and diesel fuel.

Methanol and Ethanol are essentially equal as far as antidetonation injection is concerned with regard to performance. In WWII military aircraft they were considered interchangable.

The difference in performance between them is not worth worrying about.

Denatured alcohol is simply ethanol blended with a chemical like Methanol that makes it unfit to drink and difficult to purify for use a consumable alcohol.


A large number of the Turbo Grand National Buick folks run common rubbing alcohol which is a mixture of water and isopropanol ( also called isopropyl alcohol). Rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) is not interchangable with methanol or ethanol for antidetonation injection uses. It requires different tuning and mixtures to get the same results.

It does work quite well and easily available at the corner drug store or any large grocery store, and if tuned properly for will give very good results. Substituting isopropanol for methanol or ethanol without making tuning changes can result in engine failure.

Methanol is significantly more agressive than ethanol in its corrosive behavior, but the specific behavior of these mixes depends on how they are used. Methanol especially is very agressive with the softer white metals like Magnesium, and Zinc, and will also corrode un-anodized aluminum if it is used in high concentrations and the aluminum is continuously wetted by the mixture.

Plated steel fittings should not be used with methanol mixtures (my plated steel fittings rusted very badly in only a few weeks of use.) Nickel plated Brass is nearly as good as stainless steels, as are anodized aluminum fittings.

Methanol does not play well with some seal materials at high concentrations and likewise some pumps designed for use with methanol do not cope well with ethanol.

Larry
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Old 10-09-2006, 09:54 AM   #21
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Okay --- enough already !

Meth is the street slang for an illegal drug Methamphetamine, would you guys please take the 2 seconds and spell out Methanol. If you don't have the attention span to do that you probably should not be tuning an engine!
Dur?

By the way, the rest of your post was a repetition of things other people said earlier in the thread. Try reading the thread before you start attempting to drop science on everyone.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:47 AM   #22
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By the way, the rest of your post was a repetition of things other people said earlier in the thread. Try reading the thread before you start attempting to drop science on everyone.
....and YOU would do well to be more respectful of Larry and his posts, here.

GOT IT.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:50 AM   #23
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Uncle Scotty: **** you. You're a big part of the reason why this forum blows. HTH.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:09 PM   #24
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Uncle Scotty: **** you. You're a big part of the reason why this forum blows. HTH.
Pathetic. GROW UP.
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
By the way, the rest of your post was a repetition of things other people said earlier in the thread. Try reading the thread before you start attempting to drop science on everyone.
I did --- now would you like to point out where the info about isopropanol requiring different tuning than methanol and ethanol and the wwII experience with blown engines was already posted ?

Would you like to point out where the info that ethanol and methanol were tested and found to be identical performance wise in highly controlled engine dyno tests?

Would you like to point out where the specifics regarding which metals has the most corrosion problems associated with them and methanol.

Would you like to point out who posted first hand experience with plated steel fittings in a water alcohol injection system, and who mentioned that the pump seals in different systems are not all suitable for either methanol or ethanol.

Aquamist for example explicitly designs their pumps for use with methanol and specifically cautions against use of ethanol. The stock seals you get in over the counter shurflo pumps will not tolerate high mixtures of methanol for long ( ie over a few weeks) before they break down, but shureflo does have alternate seals you can order to fix the problem of the water/methanol mix getting into the pressure switch and ruining it.

The folks here are asking questions and the need useful info from people with first hand experience with these systems. If you are not willing to contribute useful info please go to OT.

Larry
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