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Old 11-05-2001, 11:06 PM   #1
SubyImprezaRS-T
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Unhappy Need turbo help BAD

OK fellow friends here it is. i've been putting in the turbo all weekend and we finally got the thing back together and it runs but there r a few glitches......
2000 2.5RS

A) Tachometer doesnt work and thus the car is running REAL rich
B) installed a Voltage clamp....not sure if I needed it.... does anyone know
C) have a Vortech Fuel Pressure Regulator but i dont know what to do with the factory regulator... unhook it or leave it connected?
D) how do i find out what the wastegate boost levels r set at? cause as the car is now without really romping on it i can only get it to make 2PSI.....and that is only in 2nd gear in first it makes nothing.....HELP!!!!! hehehe

Any help here would be great especially if you have the forced Air Tech Kit....


Shawn
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:15 PM   #2
kaos200
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Default Re: Need turbo help BAD

Quote:
Originally posted by SubyImprezaRS-T
OK fellow friends here it is. i've been putting in the turbo all weekend and we finally got the thing back together and it runs but there r a few glitches......
2000 2.5RS

A) Tachometer doesnt work and thus the car is running REAL rich
B) installed a Voltage clamp....not sure if I needed it.... does anyone know
C) have a Vortech Fuel Pressure Regulator but i dont know what to do with the factory regulator... unhook it or leave it connected?
D) how do i find out what the wastegate boost levels r set at? cause as the car is now without really romping on it i can only get it to make 2PSI.....and that is only in 2nd gear in first it makes nothing.....HELP!!!!! hehehe

Any help here would be great especially if you have the forced Air Tech Kit....


Shawn

yes you need that Voltage clamp

your tach being disconnected has nothing to do with your car running rich, I would however bet it's because you have TWO FPRs!!
remove the stock one and set the second to about 38psi, do you have a Rising rate fpr as well?

there should be an adjustment nut on the wastegate that will allow you to slightly adjust the pressure. But I dunno if you want to mess with that until you have some other bugs fixed
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:42 PM   #3
SubyImprezaRS-T
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ok not to sound stupid but how do I set the fuel pressure... Im trying to run 12PSI i have a manual boost controller which is still set the way it was when I bought it.... i dont believe i have a rising rate FPR.... the one i have came with the kit and has only 2 fuel lines and a vacumn line on it.... no dials no nuts no nothing.... I think its pressure regulated... and as far as the wastegate goes I assume that you r talking about the nut in the dead center of the disk on the main part of the wastegate.....it is a Deltagate...

Any clues as to why everything but the Tach would work???


thnxs
Shawn
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:55 PM   #4
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if your trying to run 12psi, your gonna need GOD on your side to get there with what you described in terms of products. Your gonna need more than a Forced Air Kit, Vortech FPR and a voltage clamp there.....

A -- Kaos is correct. Tach not working has nothing to do with the car running rich.

B -- a MUST HAVE if you don't have a TEC-II and are doing a kit on a MY00 - 01

C -- Kaos is correct again.

D -- Kaos is correct once again.

***VERY IMPORTANT NOTE. ***
Using a MBC on your car (MY00) will result in you having to spending more money when you will blow your motor. Most likely the pistons. My guess would be #3.

Manual Boost Controler on a RS Turbo setup equals (=) a Recipe for Disaster.
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:56 PM   #5
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You should be carefull trying to run 12psi on a stock engine without the proper fuel and tuning, that is the key. Maybe you should start out with 6# and go from there, 12psi will hurt something if you dont know what you are doing. Just warning you
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:58 PM   #6
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LOL, beat me to it
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Old 11-05-2001, 11:59 PM   #7
SubyImprezaRS-T
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sorry i didnt say it earlier......i swapped out the 10:1 pistons with JE forged 8.5:1 pistons.... so im not all that worried about the motor as i am the tranny but that is next year when the STI 6spd becomes available....

With what i've been told by numerous people with what i have done I should have no problem getting 12psi. once i hit the dyno on the 17th and see what i can lay down... Adrenalin is going to be tuning the **** out of this car... then once i have some money built up again im getting the halltech...
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:02 AM   #8
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you should still be careful even with the lower compression, the engine still needs the proper amount of fuel and tuning, stock injectors cant handle 12 psi so please tell me you changed those out. Do you have a afc or itc or anything for engine management ?
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:05 AM   #9
SubyImprezaRS-T
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i had an AFC but it never worked.... never did a damn thing.... i really need the car to NOT run rich and I need to get ther Tach working..... as it stands now Im not really worried about boost yet... just want to get the car running 100%


Shawn
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:15 AM   #10
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what wires did you mess with on the harness?
I think you may have snipped the crank trigger signal wire and not hooked it back up properly, this will stop your tach from working...
does the SS clamp even touch the CTS?
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:21 AM   #11
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I expect posts from you asking how to fix your broken motor. You are just asking for trouble trying to get that car running with 1) no engine management and 2) no clue about how all the parts work. Good luck!


Ben

PS - Your SAFC likely won't do anything for you on a MY00-01 car except at WOT.
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:34 AM   #12
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again, I'm with others on this.... I look forward to reading your "Holy ****, I've destroyed my motor" posts....

You won't get 12psi out of stock injectors, that's for sure....
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:55 AM   #13
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What's wrong with a MBC? I am planning on getting one.
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Old 11-06-2001, 01:49 AM   #14
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I would highly recommend calling in an expert to help you finish setting up and tuning the car. REALLY!!!!

The Vortech is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator which works in conjunction with the stock FPR. It is hooked up on the fuel return line to block fuel return as boost rises, so the fuel pressure goes up and forces more fuel through the stock injectors. Make sure you have a 5:1 ratio vortech if you are at sea-level (although we use 4:1 up here at 6,000 feet). If you have a 5:1 rise from an approx baseline pressure of 40 psi, then at 8 psi boost you are at about 80 psi fuel pressure. That 80 psi fuel pressure with the stock injectors makes them flow as much as 330cc injectors which is good for about 240hp. That is the limit of your fuel system. With a MY99 and older turbo kit, it is possible to make the injectors exceed 80% duty cycle to support 260-270hp if the injectors go static (not safe).

The S-AFC is not helpful in a 2000+ turbo because the ECU gets nuts when it sees barometric pressure of 35.7 or too high of a MAP voltage, which is about 2-3 psi boost. The best voltage clamp I know of is the Torque Chip which I sell, which clamps the barometric pressure at 32 inches and avoids the "high abs manifold pressure" CE lights and fuel cuts.

Your stock timing advance is still likely to cause detonation as low as 9-10 psi boost with the low compression pistons. This is due to the agressive timing curve of the stock ECU. Do you have a large enough turbo compressor to keep the intake charge air temps cool enough to minimize detonation as boost rises? Do you have an intercooler? Can you run the Sunoco 94 octane or higher?

Don't know why your tach would quit.

Can't help with the external wastegate.

Manual Boost controllers are fine if the car can be tuned for the higher boost levels.

Larry
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Old 11-06-2001, 02:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRS dot com
The Vortech is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator which works in conjunction with the stock FPR. It is hooked up on the fuel return line to block fuel return as boost rises, so the fuel pressure goes up and forces more fuel through the stock injectors.
thats the thing, he never mentioned it was a RRFPR, he just said fpr, dunno what he has for sure???
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Old 11-06-2001, 03:07 AM   #16
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this is how engines blow up. You need to know how every part works before you can try and build a car and there is NO WAY IN HELL the factory injectors will feed a 12PSi setup...and NO WAY the factory engine management will work.

Jeremy
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Old 11-06-2001, 09:23 AM   #17
SubyImprezaRS-T
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Alright guys lets not get in an uproar here i see a few people getting to into it.... here is the setup i have going.... I havent been doing the work... I've had a 30 year race verteran doing almost all of the install.... his only problem is that this will be his first Subaru.... he is more of a domestic guy.... and unfortunately Robert at Forced Air Tech has been unavailable all weekend....and you are all quite correct I myself dont know **** about the car but then im not doing the work.... I have an appointment with a AWD Dyno to tune the car as soon as it is road worthy.... and like i said as soon as I recover from the install I'll be getting the Halltech stand alone....

JE Forged 8.5:1 pistons
Garrett T3/T4
Top Mount Intercooler
Vortech...Rising rate FPR << one of the things i didnt know
Deltagate External Wastegate
Walbro Fuel Pump
440cc Injectors
Split Second Volatge Clanp
Extreme Manual Boost Controller.
Autometer Boost Guage
Autometer Air/Fuel meter

I think thats it for things that would get me where I want to be... NOW.... I have talked to Robert at forced air alot about this and according to him as well as Andrew at Rallispec (Before the closed) I could run this car just fine on the stock ECU up to the 12PSI i want... and could probably go more but im staying at about 12psi for reasons that i dont want to blow up my tranny.... if the motor blows up it blows I have another crate motor waiting just in case..... but I dont think it will based on what i have learned from both people that have done it to there cars and the people who make these kits..... But like I said I asked for help and I appreiciate the help you've given me but im getting conflicting advice about the FPR one person said leave the stiock one attached and one said disconnect it???? which one is it

And the one real thing I need to find out is why doesnt my freaking tach work ggrrrrrr and why is it running so rich.....

Shawn
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:38 AM   #18
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It's running rich because you're dumping a whole bunch of fuel into the motor, even when it's off boost, with no way to tune it out. My RS does the same thing. I think that mine has more to do with my front O2 sensor being messed up. (Don't ask me how I did it, but it was my fault )

Oh yeah...you are going to get a clutch right?
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:42 AM   #19
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Are you sure your voltage clamp is hooked up to the right wire - that would be my first guess on why your tach doesn't work.

If you are using a Vortech FMU which is a rising rate fuel pressure riser, you must use your stock FPR also. The Vortech FMU only increases fuel pressure on boost.

You are probably running rich because you have a big fuel pump AND 440 cc injectors. Your stock ECU is giving the same signal it thinks you should have stock, so more fuel is going in. You'll have to dial fuel out with the Haltech when that goes in.

It is possible to run 12 psi with this set up.

I've done it. Accidentally.

Dunno how long it would last.
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:44 AM   #20
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Make sure the large grey plug at the back of the engine (near the turbo) is plugged in. If it's not, the tach won't work.

Ken M
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Old 11-06-2001, 11:50 AM   #21
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#1 your running rich because of the factory FPR and the Walbro fule pump. Get a SVX FPR (the stock FPR is the brass canister looking thing on the rear of the passneger side of the intake "spider." This pic isn't the best, but you can see the top of it. Follow the steel braided line coming from the turbo, you should see a little brass can with a hose coming from it. That's the FPR. The stock one can't handle the increased pressure of the Pump.


#2 You cannot "tell" how much boost the wastegate is set for without driving it. Ask the company who you got the turbo from what kind of spring the wastegate came with. It's prolly a weaker spring. To up the boost, remove the nut and the threaded screw from the top of the waste gate (the screw has a hole in it for an allen wrench and is thru the bolt). Tighten the screw in the bolt, then put it back in the wastegate. I don't have a picture, sorry.

#3 Do NOT use a MBC, they're not good for low boost apps, even with your setup. Spring for a real EBC, you'll be happier in the end.

#4 The Tach not working is probably because when you removed the SAFC you didn't remove it right and prolly cut the wire. Check the ECU plugs, make sure you didn't snip the wire, the tach wire is on the bottom most plug if you're looking at the ECU while it's still bolted down.

#5 BE CAREFUL, and be sure to be cautious, run on the safe side untill the car is totally in working order.
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:10 PM   #22
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yes MBC's are tooo inaccurate for low boost applications. Well i wouldn't run one under 10 PSI. Chances are you turbo has a 5-7 PSI spring in it so you will definitely need to change that.

Jeremy
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Old 11-06-2001, 08:05 PM   #23
SubyImprezaRS-T
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Well guys my installers got the car running well today I took all of your advice and printed it out and gave it to them and combined with what they knew they were able to get everything running and got the tach running.... I am currently set at 5psi and the car runs ok.... i have a little hesitation under boost but it goes away... i am going to drive it for a while and let the ECU get used to being a turbo motor.... thnx guys for all your help i def needed a push in the right direction.... and to answer someone elses question yes i have a clutch and flywheel but i didnt think it was important to list as it wouldnt effect the motor.....


Again thnx alot to everyone who posted.... I'll keep you all updated if anything changes.....


Happy Boosting
Shawn
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