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Old 10-11-2006, 04:25 PM   #1
Sleeper in Seattle
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Default Dyno results with Alkycontrol 100% meth kit

I had my car tuned last saturday. Here's the link to the full write up- skip to page four:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1094764&page=4

Here's the results:

Comparison of my base line (stage2 Protune) run and final (PDX stage2 plus Meth Protune)



Here's the PDX stage2 compared with the PDX Meth tune:


I can say that my car is perfect right now. I love it! I think I turned Tim from PDX into a 100% Meth believer!!!!
I am now a meth addict!!!!!
This is on a 06 sti with a COBB Catted downpipe and COBB AP with an ALKYCONTROL kit....
Thank you Tim (PDX Tuning) and Julio (ALKYCONTROL)!!!!!
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #2
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Nice numbers... Aren't you worried about corosion using 100%?
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:35 PM   #3
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Thanks!
Everything in the kit is made to handle 100% meth, so the only things the meth touches that are stock parts are the throttle body, intake manifold, and the combustion chamber. I'm not worried about the Spec C 12L intercoolertank....
With a lot of other kits, the pumps and everything else aren't made to handle 100% meth and corrosion would be a concern. I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
The ALKYCONTROL kit is so thoroughly overbuilt, I have complete confidence in it's capabilities- so no worries here!
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Old 10-14-2006, 07:16 PM   #4
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What kind of dyno. You numbers look a little low.
I just put a vf39 on my 06 wrx with 50/50 meth distilled and I am hoping for over 300whp and around 350ftlb.
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Old 10-14-2006, 11:14 PM   #5
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Very cool, I plan on doing this soon. I already have the spec C tank.
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Old 10-15-2006, 12:14 AM   #6
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That's how I started! Now all you ave to do is get the kit and drive over to Tim and have him tune it for you!
You'll be happy, I can gaurantee it!
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Old 10-15-2006, 08:24 AM   #7
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Keep hoping to reach those numbers. You are a little high.

Jay-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by kn0bby8 View Post
What kind of dyno. You numbers look a little low.
I just put a vf39 on my 06 wrx with 50/50 meth distilled and I am hoping for over 300whp and around 350ftlb.
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Old 10-15-2006, 09:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
There are other kits including ours that can handle 100% methanol right now. Its not Voodoo or rocket science. Its simply the seals in the pump. EPDM or BUNA can handle 100%. Pretty simple simple stuff.
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Old 10-15-2006, 10:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr View Post
Keep hoping to reach those numbers. You are a little high.

Jay-R
Those numbers are very reasonable... 2.5L + VF39 +meth should yeild those numbers...
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Old 10-15-2006, 12:31 PM   #10
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Yep, somehow I missed the 2.5L, you should be at least what you want.

Jay-R

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Originally Posted by nater View Post
Those numbers are very reasonable... 2.5L + VF39 +meth should yeild those numbers...
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Old 10-15-2006, 02:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
That's how I started! Now all you ave to do is get the kit and drive over to Tim and have him tune it for you!
You'll be happy, I can gaurantee it!
Yeah Tim tuned my WRX 4 or 5 times. I have spent way to much money there. Where did you get your kit from?
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Old 10-15-2006, 02:31 PM   #12
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very nice curves, love the tq...
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Old 10-16-2006, 12:28 AM   #13
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The dyno was a new eddy current mustang. I had previously had my car tuned by Christian from COBB on a mustang dyno that is supposedly a low reading dyno and I was only able to put out 289ft/lbs and 270hp on a protune from Christian. I took that same setup to Kito and only put down, around 240ft/lbs and 230hp. It was cooler during the PDX tuning two saturdays ago and my numbers were 49ft/lbs lower and about 40hp lower. I can't imagine that I lost that much hp and torque by adding lighter rims and a carbonfiber driveshaft..... It's definately a difference in the dynos...
Even Tim said that he thought that the numbers seemed low and offered to let me drive down to Portland and have him put it on his dynopack (or whatever dyno he has) for free just to get a comparable reading to the 50/50 kits he tunes all day long. He thought by the way everything was reacting, that my car would probably be up there in the numbers... I'm curious and would like to see what it does on a more generous dyno.
Ultimately, different dynos aren't really comparable- base line runs to final runs on the same day/same car/ constant weather/ same gas/ and all other variables being the same are the only ones that can be compared....
Basically, I love my car's capabilities right now- like my passing power while cruising at 70mph in 6th gear and being able to floor it to go around someone and pass them while thinking, "Damn!!! I'm accellerating really quickly! Look at how fast I just passed them!!!"
I bought my kit from Julio at Alkycontrol.com He's a great guy! There are other kits on the market that can run 100% meth, but when I figure out how to tune the meth on my other car, I'll be buying another kit from Julio at AlkyControl. Everything on the kit is overbuilt, and I like that idea!

James
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #14
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So if I read this right, you gained about 60whp across the top end (and more at lower RPMs) versus a protune map? I could see 60whp gain over an off the shelf map, but 60whp over a protune is AMAZING! That means 60whp just from injection. Is injection the only difference between the lines in the top chart?
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klattery View Post
So if I read this right, you gained about 60whp across the top end (and more at lower RPMs) versus a protune map? I could see 60whp gain over an off the shelf map, but 60whp over a protune is AMAZING! That means 60whp just from injection. Is injection the only difference between the lines in the top chart?

not just 'injection', but 100% meth injection, which is like running on race gas
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Subie View Post
not just 'injection', but 100% meth injection, which is like running on race gas
So is a 50/50 mix... There are minimal gains from running 100%
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:18 PM   #17
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I agree with Tasq - we've seen little to show that 100% is much better than 50/50.

Also, the baseline looks low for a stage 2 Protune. 225 whp for a stage 2 protune on an STi is one heck of a heartbreaker dyno. I know stock STis put down 210-215 on tough dynos, and stage 2 OTS can be about 225-235, but I haven't seen a protune Stage 2 that low.

On a stage 2 VF39, where people have two maps (with and without injection)most people aren't seeing that much difference between the two maps. Maybe 15-20 whp at top and a lot of extra torque down low.

The low baseline coupled with the tremendous gain is why I wonder if that baseline is really a stage 2 protune.

Nice results (and no ill will), but I'd like to confirm the baseline.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:11 AM   #18
Sleeper in Seattle
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If you read the linked posts, you will see that my initial Christian from Cobb tuningprotune was really conservative. At the time, he hadn't tuned any 06 sti's and thought maybe the 06's had larger injectors- when in fact they just run a higher fuel pressure. Because of that lack of certainty, he didn't tune my car to it's full potential. So when I had Tim from PDX tune it- he was able to tune much more agressively and was able to get this difference between his protune and Christians:

So that is the difference between the Christian from COBB tuning tune and Tim from PDX.
Now, if you look at the difference between the two different runs on the second of the first two graphs I posted- that is what the difference between a good thorough protune and the meth was.
Here's a qoute from Tim Bailey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
Kito has a great facility.... the staff is great and the AWD dyno the best i've used in the PNW.

4 tunes total. All were without major issues. The real kick in the pants was the alcohol tune on Sleeper in seattle's STi. I'll let him post impressions but the numerical gains were freakin incredible. Then again, i think we used almost a gallon of alcohol for 10 to 12 full 4th gear pulls.

I'm going to put one of these alcohol mass delivery systems into my car.

Cheers
Tim
It can be found here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1094764&page=4
If you are aware of PDX tuning, they are one of the better tuning shops in PNW, and they are full-heartedly supporters of 50/50 injection kits- Tim was as impressed with the results having experienced as much as he has and tuned tons of non-100% kits. But, he's seen the light, and is now going to put one of these systems on his personal car...
Think about it...
Dyno results vary from every dyno- all that really matters is the base line numbers and the final numbers on the same dyno on the same day.
Hopefully, you get my point.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:14 PM   #19
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Thanks for the clarification, and no I didn't read your linked notes - sorry again.

So the bottom chart is what we should compare for with/without injection. Looks like about 40whp improvement across the top. Still very impressive.

Do you know what boost you are running on those two maps (with and without injection on the final PDX maps)?

Also, how is your controller setup for injection kick in and max spray?

Sorry for the questions, but I'd love to improve my setup to run 40whp more like you.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:31 PM   #20
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What does the warning on your pump say?
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:34 AM   #21
Sleeper in Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
What does the warning on your pump say?
It says for use with PAC Controller only. Basically, the kit has a controller that utilizes the pump to it's full potential. The following is just my interpretation- for the correct answer, Julio at ALKYCONTROL.com could answer your questions:
The controller can activate at any boost pressure you desire- most people start giving the pump power around 8psi then have it ramp up to a certain max setting a chosen rate. Only the PAC controller is able to do this flawlessly and without any failures or other issues.
The way I have it set up is somewhat conservative, instead of getting a butt load of torque down low and having it carry all the way to redline, we have it so the alky doesn't come on until about 14psi- that's if I loose my COBB AP and can't change the tune if I were to run out of alky and couldn't change to the non-alky tune- I could drive with less than 14psi and be fine. NOT that I would ever let that happen....
From my understanding, we are only hitting about 19psi or so on the meth- no crazy EVO running 28-30psi. I should ask tim. He told me and I forgot... I think the meth tune stays at 19psi for most of the rev range before tapering off to 14 or 15 psi. I think the non meth tune brushes up to 19psi very briefly and then dropps down to safer levels. There was a lot of timing added by tim- I kept watching his face as he kept trying to find max torque, and it was similar to c16 tunes he's done.
My best advice, is get a tuner that can tune really well and go with 100% meth. If you are after great numbers, have it start to come on at 6psi and have it hold higher boost (20-22psi) longer in the rpm band, but be forwarned, as Tim repeatedly told me, if something goes wrong, you have about half a second to hear and react. Of course, with my "Mass meth deliery system, Tim said it may be possible that without the Meth, my car might not be able to even ignite the trace fuel fumes and nothing might happen....
Do whatever you feel comfortable with, I didn't want to go very aggressive becuase this is my daily driver... I know there is a lot more left in the kit, but I feel comfortable at where it is at. Not bad for a stock midpipe and catback!
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:42 AM   #22
Sleeper in Seattle
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This last weekend I went on a trip and followed some friends (another STI and an RX8) along some windy back roads leading towards the coast. It was a two hour drive, of full throttle second and third gear shifting up and down- It was absolutely incredible! We pretty much only stopped to let my friend let his girlfriend who has never gotten car sick before in her life, get some fresh air. It seriously was the most fun I've had in my car!
I also did a whole bunch of 0-130 runs, and a couple spirited drives here and there and ended up using about 3 gallons of METH. So I definately go through the stuff! I always carry an extra 1.5 gallons in addition to my 12L tank.
I really love my car!
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:02 AM   #23
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Another Update:
The car is running great! I don't floor it as much as I used to , and on these cold nights, I still think my car is very fast.
When driving on the freeway, I leave it in sixth gear and don't bother to downshift to pass people, even when I need to pass quickly- the car has that much torque in sixth gear!
I love it!
I seem to be going through about 3 1/2 gallons of meth per month and I fill up my gas tank every 4-5 days averaging about 240-260 miles per tank. This weekend, I've only gotten 80 miles on the first half a tank of gas- but I've been having a little fun now that the snow is gone.
I'd say that I am still loving meth!
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
Thanks!
Everything in the kit is made to handle 100% meth, so the only things the meth touches that are stock parts are the throttle body, intake manifold, and the combustion chamber. I'm not worried about the Spec C 12L intercoolertank....
With a lot of other kits, the pumps and everything else aren't made to handle 100% meth and corrosion would be a concern. I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
The ALKYCONTROL kit is so thoroughly overbuilt, I have complete confidence in it's capabilities- so no worries here!
The SMC kit has been able to handle straight methanol for years.
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