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10-21-2006, 03:09 AM | #1 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
Car running, no cam signal being picked up on Hydra?
Ok, so this may be related to my usb to serial adapter but I don't get how. I originally thought my car wasn't starting because it wasn't getting cam signal because on crank trigger test I would only get crank trigger info and no cam, now this may actually still be the case, because when I would have issue I would readjust my cam sensor plug and it would seem to help. But even when i would get the car running where it obviously has to have cam signal, I would run a trigger test and still only crank shows up, no cam signal.
So the question is has anyone else had this issue, is it a cable problem? I wont be able to check if it shows up on my sisters laptop for a while(I can download with her laptop to the hydra, my laptop cannot but can view and upload info, both essentially same laptops). Any info would be great. thanks! Ben
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10-21-2006, 09:16 AM | #2 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
Ben,
I know this isn't an Element Tuning Hydra and unfortunately this is where I would say send me your map and let me verify your cam and crank trigger setup. Different Subaru models have different cam and crank pickups and it's likely you do not have yours setup correctly. Contact the person you purchased your Hydra from and they should be able to help you out. It's not likely it has anything to do with the USB cable. Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
10-21-2006, 01:59 PM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
Yea, this is one of the H6 ones that weren't really considered to be your jurisdiction until later I guess, sorry. Got it from andrew cause I didn't know we could even get them from you, just followed the crowd on that one unfortunately.
The reason I think it may be the cable or com link is because I am fairly sure I picked up a signal on a diff laptop. But I guess that wouldn't make sense to pick up one signal on mine and not the other, it should just get both. The question is though, how could it run(smoothly it seems) if the trigger info is incorrect? Hmm, now that I think about it, I have tried to download a couple times with mine just to see if it will work and i get "failed check at end line prompt" and it stops downloading, I am wondering if it got partially downloaded. FWIW my trigger setup wasn't changed from when I got it and it was the same as Jeff Perrin's(unless the downloading changed it/didn't copy it all), I'll have to go check. thanks Ben |
10-22-2006, 09:59 AM | #4 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
The Hydra can fire without the cam signal as as a backup but I believe it fires in batch instead of sequential. If you do a search there is a lengthy post on the cam and crank sync signals of the Hydra EMS. I want to say it was related to cams so it might be in 2.5 factory.
Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
10-22-2006, 08:05 PM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
Thanks Phil, I guess the search for a clear answer continues.
Ben |
10-22-2006, 08:15 PM | #6 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
I think I found it, bboy states that the Hydra will default to batch fire mode if there is no cam sync signal found. That is good for having the car still run but I guess gets me no closer to seeing why I am not getting cam signal.
Ben |
10-23-2006, 05:50 PM | #7 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
Make sure you have "sync pull up enabled" in your map for this motor. The STIs and the new H6 motors have a week cam signal.
Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
10-23-2006, 08:44 PM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
sync pull up is enabled, thanks for the tip.
What is the difference on the "sync after" I compared my trigger info to Perrin's map, now I am almost positive mine hasn't changed since I ran it at PDX(I thought I had cam signal there but now I don't even recall if it was my car I checked it on or if it was the other H6 i checked). But on mine the sync after pull down is blank(I believe this is how it was on the other H6 I worked on and it ran fine and had signal). And on Perrin's car it says Sync after "tooth 0". Would this matter? I saw you mention something in another thread where signal was getting pulled down enough to not show up? I have continuity from the sensor plug signal all the way to the hydra plug. with ignition on i have 12v to the sensor, sensor ground has continuity to chassis ground, there is no continuity between all the three sensor pins(no shorts). Trying to figure out if it could somehow still be the connection or if that somewhat limits it to the hydra interally. I think the only thing left to do is scope the sensor and if it is outputting a signal then I think that narrows it to something in the hydra not picking up the signal. Hmmm...any thoughts anyone? Ben |
10-23-2006, 09:57 PM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 56468
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:04 Improved STI Dirty White |
Yes, scope the sensor. Then you know 1) there is an output from the sensor, and 2) the voltage, shape, etc of the output in case you need to get Andrew involved with triggers.
My issue was a boost controller siphoning off the signal because of mis-wiring. It took a long time to start without the cam signal. |
10-24-2006, 10:50 PM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:1999 RSTI WRB |
I didn't really read your entire posts about the cam and pick up sensors. But try downloading the map multiple times. you shouldn't get any messages and the download bar should go through entirely. ***Even if the bar goes through sometimes the map will not get on the hydra. shut everything off and then upload to make sure its on. then shut it off again. and try to start. But I have had a case even when the map was on I had to re download it to finally start on an EVO. If your wiring and sensors and the hydra harness are all in working order I would try different laptop and cable combos. Windows 98 and an old *ss laptop with basic serial cable works best.
I wouldn't mess with wiriing until I absolutely had to. |
11-06-2006, 05:48 PM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
hmm, so I was thinking about it today. I did some checking again on all the wiring.
CN:could having polarity switched around on the sensor cause my issues? With a probe in B9 on the hydra(sync +) and the other probe grounded I was seeing 10.7v, which seemed kind of odd but thought maybe it was possible. I checked power and ground and again was seeing 11.2 to the sensor, no voltage from signal, to ground at the sensor, again no continuity between each wires or to ground(besides ground). So I went and checked in the service manual it says with ignition on and car not running I should see .275v on the signal wire. I put a scope on the sensor with a the probe in B9 and grounded, and it just stayed at 10.7(dropped to 8.xx when starter activated) obviously the battery is pretty low but i was just looking for a change in voltage(or see it drop to 0). I saw nothing, and I am pretty sure the refresh rate is plenty fast when just spinning the motor with the starter for it to register a square pulse on my scope. So, all this got me thinking and hopefully maybe phil can possibly help confirm this to be the problem. I orignally thought polarity to the sensor was fine because the car started up and ran at PDX when we finally started and tried it, so I think we just assumed it was correct even though it might have just been running on batch fire, for the life of me i can't recall if I actually tried crank trigger test until AFTER we started having issues and then assumed it all the sudden wasn't getting cam. So, we hooked up positive to white and ground to black(logic would make you think thats right). but is it possible, that having them backwards, this would cause the things I am seeing? I am seeing a high voltage on signal and not even getting a signal from the cam on the hydra? I actually don't know what the internal of the sensor is like, but since i tried both sensors and both didnt work its likely both are not bad, and having the wiring swapped around would explain that as well. sorry so long just going through thoughts, any ideas? thanks Ben |
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