Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday August 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-21-2006, 09:15 PM   #1
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default Alky: On-Off vs. Boost Regulated vs. Computer Regulated

#1 There are those kits that come on and spray the same amount of water regardless of how much boost is run.

#2 There are those that increase water spray pressure based on increased boost.

#3 There are those that are (sp) controlled by tuner input.

#1 is like the ebay systems and Stage 1 packages of some better known systems: Boost hits a set point the spray begins. #2 is like what you get with an SMC system: Boost hits a set point, spray begins and spray pressure increases as boost increases to a set higher point. #3 is what you get with a Stage II Coolmist system (and maybe a Hydramist): It's plugged into a computer and spray can be custom regulated at various points.

For me, #1 is a no go. #2 is what I was about to buy...an SMC kit to be precise, but the local shop didn't have one in stock and after a little research it appears getting a kit from a place that doesn't have it in stock will take a long time and SMC customer service isn't very responsive. [I don't know firsthand if that is true.] This lead me to looking at the Coolmist Stage 2 which I can get cheaper than the SMC and it's more controllable. The question is, is that much control really necessary? I know what the SMC kit is capable of and the control box has better aesthetics (sp) for in-view mounting. You can howerever control the Coolmist in the same manner as the SMC kit.., i.e. in cabin without computer. Part of my attractions to the SMC kit is that its very simple and uses the ww tank and replaces it with a smaller one. To do the same with the Coolmist would require some custom work.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by metoo; 10-22-2006 at 10:50 AM.
metoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 06:51 PM   #2
Ultimate Collision Center
Vendor
 
Member#: 69072
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Peekskill
Default

stage 1 kits are really ok to use if you have a fast spooling turbo...I actually recommend it to those that are on a budget...ultimately what type of kit should be decided by your tuner as its up to him what style of spray he likes to tune for...
Ultimate Collision Center is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 09:32 PM   #3
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

The only difference between a number 1 and 2-3 is the addition of a controller, and not only is a controller not needed, but a 2 stage number 1 could help an engine perform better then a number 2-3 by having a better range of flow when it's needed. This is because most people with number 2's use the boost to control flow, and they get the same flow no matter what rpm the engine is at. A number 1 can have 2 flows(if it has 2 stages) making the water/fuel ratio more consistent throughout the rpm range. If I were you, I'd get(or peice together) a number 1 with a dds3. It would cost about the same as a number two, could perform better then a number 2-3, and be safer.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 10-23-2006 at 04:40 PM.
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 09:40 PM   #4
Ultimate Collision Center
Vendor
 
Member#: 69072
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Peekskill
Default

+1 to that, I have my progessive unit on my evo set to start spraying at 8psi and full pressure is reached at 14psi so its not really that big of a deal...I could have easily used a stage 1 but I have plans to upgrade to a much laggier turbo at some point and a progressive controller will come in handy...
Ultimate Collision Center is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 10:13 PM   #5
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

I don't think it really matters what size turbo is run. With boost based flow control(numbers 2-3), you only get 1 flow no matter what rpm you're at. Let's say you want 8gph at 7000rpm and 20psi. You will also get 8gph at 4000rpm and 20psi because the boost is the same, and the flow is based on boost. Let's say you have a 2 stage number 1 with 2 4gph nozzles(or a 5 and a 3, or 6 and 2, or whatever). At 4000rpm you'd get 4gph instead of 8, and at 5500rpm or whatever, the second nozzle could kick in giving the same flow. This second flow makes it so the water/fuel ratio can be more consistent throughout the rpm range, and this could help an engine perform better.

A few things to think about when deciding what kit to get..... People don't usually adjust their controllers once they're tuned and what not. This is cause cars are tuned for a given amount of injection, and changing that would warrant another tune. Because of this, having the controller be accessable isn't really necessary, and it might even be more dangerous then anything(like if a setting gets changed by mistake). Another thing to note is that the engine compartment is a hot place. It might be nice to mount a windshield washer tank and pump there, but your engine doesn't rely on windshield washer fluid to servive. I know you say to yourself, "it must be ok since this company has it like that", but some kits were made more with cost and ease of installation in mind then funtion, safety, and reliability. Just some food for thought I guess.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 10-23-2006 at 04:39 PM.
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:16 PM   #6
metoo
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4764
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston
Vehicle:
2004 STi sold :(
forizzle

Default

Why would you want flow based on rpm instead of boost? Isn't the point of the alky to cool? More boost more heat more cooling needed. Plus if it is not progressive, you could have too much flow when you don't need it, causing hesitation. AmI not correct about this?
metoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 12:38 AM   #7
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

Your second question is the answer to your first..... Progressive does not equal better or anti-hesitating, even though some progressive kits might live upto those myths when used correctly on the right setup. A 2 stage #1 could give less and more flow when needed compared to a #2 or 3 that's based only on boost. This basically means the 2 stage #1 would have less chance of creating hesitation and more chance of helping the engine perform better compared to the #2-3. It also costs less.

peace

Last edited by hippy; 10-23-2006 at 04:38 PM.
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 01:00 PM   #8
Token-Negro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81659
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Sammamish
Vehicle:
2010 Fozzy XT
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

After building a few of these kits and my own dual stage kit, I cant imagine why anyone would do a controller kit other then the Aquamist kit’s HSV. The HSV is the best solution hands down. You get a consistent % of liquid to fuel ratio all the way through the rpm range. I don’t see any other controllers doing this anywhere close to this well. I have yet to get just the HSV myself but Richard posted a diagram of how to implement one into a system with a Shurflo pump. You can get great results with a cheaper simpler kit just using (BPS) to start flow, then a controller based kit.
Token-Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 03:33 PM   #9
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

The hsv is nice, but it's like a boost based controller in the way that it's not needed, and costs a lot of money. Although I have an hsv, if I had to do it all over again, I would go with a basic dual or single stage system. Not saying that I don't like the hsv, but the good old bang for the buck question comes up. If I could spend $500 instead of $1000 and get 90+ of the effectiveness, should I do it? Do I need the possible extra 10%? If I can spend $250 instead of $500 and possibly get better effectiveness, should I do it?

peace

Last edited by hippy; 10-23-2006 at 04:58 PM.
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
taking off on ramps v.boost lag? etc BlackC4rb0n Newbies & FAQs 3 12-11-2008 06:45 AM
Power cuts on/off under *LIGHT* boost ChuChi Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 1 12-19-2007 04:51 PM
Looking for work? Can you turn a Computer on/off? Click here! (Lexington, MA) Fish New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 10 10-25-2007 03:28 PM
Throttle postion vs boost on stock ecu map UM-WRXer Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 1 02-12-2004 10:20 PM
Leaving a Computer on All Day vs. Turning It On/Off Everytime xfactor834 Off-Topic 19 08-26-2003 02:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.