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Old 11-01-2006, 09:11 PM   #1
cyberpirate
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Default American car buyers get a case of amnesia

Sales of big pickup trucks and SUVs went through the roof - doubling from the year before in some cases. Sales of small, fuel efficient cars, meanwhile, remained stagnant. It is as if all that moaning and groaning about price gouging by oil companies never happened.

Actually, it is worse than that. American consumers have reinforced all the stereotypes they are labeled with: short attention spans, lack of social consciousness and thinking with their wallets.

Does anyone seriously believe that having once spiked up to $3 with very little provocation, gasoline prices won't do it again? Have they forgotten about the ongoing instability in the Middle East, where most of our oil comes from? And have they stopped caring about traffic density, scarce resources or global warming? And if they haven't, why aren't they exercising better sense in their vehicle preferences?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/01/maga...ex.htm?cnn=yes
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Old 11-01-2006, 09:39 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by cyberpirate View Post
And if they haven't, why aren't they exercising better sense in their vehicle preferences?
Americans are selfish, period.
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Old 11-01-2006, 09:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Taylor III, Fortune senior editor
Have they forgotten about the ongoing instability in the Middle East, where most of our oil comes from?
That's just plain wrong. In fact, according to the Department of Energy, only around 22% of our oil comes from the Middle East.
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:03 PM   #4
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dude what was this article written by Jermey Clarkson?

sounds like Anti American Propaganda spread by the European Press.
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:21 PM   #5
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You'd think that the Fortune senior editor would do a little fact checking.
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:22 PM   #6
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I think this rings true... jesus though seems like there are more SUVs then cars on the roads these days. What is the worst its some soccer mom all alone in the car talking on the cell phone, and I have to be the one that suffers when my car is destoryed by her empty Tank of a car.
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:58 PM   #7
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Most of the guys at my work all drive trucks (I work in a machine shop). They just don't care what the gas prices are. Although they love to bitch about them. Most of them say they'll never own anything but a truck/SUV.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix96 View Post
That's just plain wrong. In fact, according to the Department of Energy, only around 22% of our oil comes from the Middle East.
22% is HUGE! Do you have any idea how much oil that is or what would happen if we stopped getting it?
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JC View Post
22% is HUGE! Do you have any idea how much oil that is or what would happen if we stopped getting it?
GWB will likely launch an attack North of the border, labelling Alberta and its oil sands as the next axle of evil...
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:40 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jigga View Post
GWB will likely launch an attack North of the border, labelling Alberta and its oil sands as the next axle of evil...
axis of evil?

i dont think parts of cars can be evil.

anyway, i dont like suv's either. not only for the gas issue, it seems like the only people driving them truly are soccer moms on their cell phones who cant even stay in their own lane.
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Old 11-02-2006, 05:43 AM   #11
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i wouldn't put it past bush to say "axle of evil"

hehe
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Old 11-02-2006, 07:36 AM   #12
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Yeah, let's lump all Americans under the same stereotype. I mean everyone of us just went out and bought a V8 SUV, right?

No other country has idiots does it?

Did we really expect sales not to rebound considering people have been holding off new vehicle purchases for the last year to see if gas prices we're going to hit $5-6?
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Old 11-02-2006, 08:17 AM   #13
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If too many Americans are too clueless, too selfish or simply too irresponsible to drive reasonable vehicles, that is where some kind of gas tax to promote more fuel efficiency needs to be added. It is quickly becoming an issue of national security the amount of oil that we need to import simply because some Americans have completely become energy gluttons - if you can't control your energy consumption, then be prepared to get taxed on it.

...OR another solution is possibly a new level of driver's license needs to be created.

If you "must" drive a behemoth over XXXX pounds, then be prepared to take a more rigorous driver's test to make sure that you can actually handle such a vehicle.... along with an extra fee every time you renew your license.

We already have Commercial Driver's Licenses, for people that need to drive larger commerical trucks - I see some suburbanite soccer mom driving an H2 as no different - she needs a higher-grade license.
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Old 11-02-2006, 08:21 AM   #14
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axis of evil?

i dont think parts of cars can be evil.
You've obviously never tried to remove the front driver-side axle nut on a Subaru.
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Old 11-02-2006, 09:42 AM   #15
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It's interesting to note that GM had the biggest increase, and their trucks/SUVs get the best gas mileage in their class. Nissan isn't listed as seeing a big increase and their trucks get the worst gas mileage in their class. So I don't think Americans are completely throwing their worries out the window.

Also, it's easy to have a big increase over last year when sales were so dismal last year.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
and their trucks/SUVs get the best gas mileage in their class
And even worse, the "best gas mileage" is a pathetic number. If they were at least getting GOOD fuel economy, it would be one thing, but to brag about the mpg figures cars get these days is just depressing. Me hatey the SUVs. I literally can't find my little Protege5 sometimes (a WAGON!) because SUVs will park around it and obscure it 100%!!

Fuel taxes unfairly hurt the poor. I say octuple the "gas guzzler" tax when purchasing the offending vehicles, add the "gas guzzler" tax for every vehicle registration renewal each year, give huge tax incentives to buyers of fuel-efficient cars, and tax incentives to manufacturers to build them. These things can be done quickly and easily.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by scott_gunn View Post
It's interesting to note that GM had the biggest increase, and their trucks/SUVs get the best gas mileage in their class. Nissan isn't listed as seeing a big increase and their trucks get the worst gas mileage in their class. So I don't think Americans are completely throwing their worries out the window.
You simply cannot conclude gas mileage was the only determining factor in a truck/SUV purchase. It could be reliability, value, brand loyalty, etc, and yes better MPG is icing on the cake.
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
If too many Americans are too clueless, too selfish or simply too irresponsible to drive reasonable vehicles, that is where some kind of gas tax to promote more fuel efficiency needs to be added. It is quickly becoming an issue of national security the amount of oil that we need to import simply because some Americans have completely become energy gluttons - if you can't control your energy consumption, then be prepared to get taxed on it.

...OR another solution is possibly a new level of driver's license needs to be created.

If you "must" drive a behemoth over XXXX pounds, then be prepared to take a more rigorous driver's test to make sure that you can actually handle such a vehicle.... along with an extra fee every time you renew your license.

We already have Commercial Driver's Licenses, for people that need to drive larger commerical trucks - I see some suburbanite soccer mom driving an H2 as no different - she needs a higher-grade license.
I agree with you about needing higher gas taxes or simply not subsidizing gas distribution/refining with tax dollars. I don't see why my tax dollars should go towards all these people worthlessly driving SUV's. If you want/need to own one, you should be (mostly) paying for the fuel yourself, not tax payers.
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Old 11-02-2006, 11:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by AllForSRT View Post
sounds like Anti American Propaganda spread by the European Press.
There is reason for all the "anti American" around the world.

Not all Amercian are selfish, i am more important than you, fat bastard. But sadly, there are still too many of them.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:08 PM   #20
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What if vehicles were taxed per weight. Period. Across the board. I think they should tax displacement. It would cover everything.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:22 PM   #21
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The gas situation has not changed. The price is lower now because of the up coming midterm elections. Wait a month or two after November and the gas prices will be back up. Part of Bush's approval rating is related to the gas prices.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:44 PM   #22
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What if vehicles were taxed per weight. Period. Across the board. I think they should tax displacement. It would cover everything.
Taxing vehicles mostly on weight is not a bad idea really.

Hell, right now some of the automakers are purposefully making some of their largest SUVs sooo heavy that they don't fall under EPA regulations anymore - those regulations were setup on the assumption that no NON-commercial vehicle would ever need to be above that weight limit.
Well the EPA was short-sighted in thinking that people actually had some kind of common sense or took any responsibility for their waste.

I can understand that a commercial box-truck will weight XXXX pounds simply because it is used to transport cargo. It is inexcusable that any consumer-grade passenger vehicle should be anywhere near the weight of a box truck when at most it is being used to bring the spoiled kids to school.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:54 PM   #23
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OMG they picked a period of time when sales were at the lowest and said OMG Amerikans are still buying SUVs! Idiots no mention of the following

Quote:
The October sales figure for nearly every manufacturer are out, and as you can see, there's a lot of little green arrows below. The stellar performances this month are most likely due to the fact that last year this time is when the effects of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita combined with the end of big incentives depressed sales across the industry.
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/02/b...-october-2006/

Also GM was just ending sales of their old big SUVs and replacing them with the new ones so maybe that's another reason why sales of that model are up so much.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:55 PM   #24
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since we live in a society of taxation, you might as well have taxation that applies incentives to socially beneficial outcomes.

Taxing a vehicle by weight is a resonable method to encourage some socially beneficial behavior:

It would provide incentives to build lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles, reducing our dependance on oil to an extent

It would reduce demand for vehicles which have greater social costs.

Lighter vehicles will damage the roads less, resulting in better, longer lasting roads.

It would help internalize (make those that create more damage pay for the damage) the social costs of the damage created by large, inefficient vehicles.

Although there are other factors that affect the environment and fuel efficiency, weight is a major factor, and seems to be the primary reason average fuel economy hasn't increased as the level of technology has increased.
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Old 11-02-2006, 02:51 PM   #25
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Taxing a vehicle by weight is a resonable method to encourage some socially beneficial behavior:
Why would you tax by weight? Why not tax by mpg and emissions? For example, high-end supercars don't weight much at all, but get horrendous mpg. Taxing by mpg would punish the monstrous SUVs as well as the supercars, taxing by weight would not. I would rather tax the **** out of a 3000 pound supercar that gets 8 mpg and spews poison everywhere than a 5000 pound SULEV SUV that got 50 mpg.
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