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Old 11-09-2006, 11:00 AM   #1
NYCshopper
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Default Siemens "Electronic Wedge Brake"

Siemens "Electronic Wedge Brake"



http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../61106011/1065

Quote:
Super Binders
Electronic wedge brakes will change the way we stop

Never heard of the EWB or electronic wedge brake? Donít worry. Chances are youíll be hearing a lot about it in coming years.

Thatís the opinion of German electronics specialist Siemens, which claims the high-tech stoppers, currently being tested for use on upcoming models by Europeís leading carmakers, will revolutionize the safety standards of future generations of road cars by dramatically shortening stopping distances compared with more traditional hydraulic braking systems.

Efforts to improve the efficiency of braking systems have led to some interesting innovations in recent years, including the use of ceramic carbon materials in brake discs and electronic activation of parking brakes. But those developments will seem minor compared to the leap Siemens is claiming for its new electronic wedge brake.

Not to be confused with the electrohydraulic Sensotronic brakes introduced by Mercedes-Benz in 2001 but subsequently removed from sale early this year due to unsolved reliability issues, the electronic wedge brake represents a bigger breakthrough. The idea behind the system is not exactly new, with similarities to the arrangement found on horse-drawn carriages from the 18th century, where a wedge was used to bring the wheel to a standstill. But rather than relying on a hardened piece of wood for a binder, the electronic wedge uses state-of-the-art electronics and an innovative wedge-shaped connection to provide the sort of stopping ability that existing hydraulic units cannot match.

Unlike todayís traditional hydraulic brake, which requires the buildup of forces before the caliper is able to grip the disc, the electronic wedge brake uses a series of interlocking triangular teeth that offset between the caliper and the disc. In all, it is claimed to require just one-tenth the energy used by hydraulic braking. A small electric motor pushes the pad toward the rotor by a lateral movementómuch like how a watermelon seed can be ejected at high velocity by squishing it between your fingers. The entire system runs on the standard 12-volt electrical system found in most cars.

Really clever, however, is that the kinetic energy of the car automatically increases the braking performance. In theory, the faster you are traveling when the brakes are applied, the more powerful they become. When the pad is applied to the disc, the momentum of the rotating disc draws the pad farther up an interlocking series of wedges, applying greater braking pressure and increasing stopping efficiency.

A series of electric motors push in and pull out at an extremely high frequency, while a torque sensor controls the braking force and keeps the wheels from locking up, thus alleviating the need for a conventional antilock braking system. With each brake unit operating independently from the others, it also means the electronic stability control can be programmed to operate on a much finer calibration, without the typical pulsating effect evident in some cars today.

In tests, a prototype with the wedge brakes regularly required less than half the distance to come to a complete stop than the prototype with the standard brakes, a company official said.

As well as providing greatly improved braking ability, wedge brakes are significantly lighter than todayís most advanced hydraulic units. With fewer moving parts, they also could be more reliable and last longer.

When will we see the new brakes begin filtering through to the road? Sources say the first car with wedge brakes, an Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz or Porsche, is planned for launch in 2008.
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Old 11-09-2006, 11:47 AM   #2
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interesting, wish there were more diagrams to see how it works.
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Old 11-09-2006, 11:52 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rapid_Roo View Post
interesting, wish there were more diagrams to see how it works.
more info:

http://www.siemensvdo.com/products_s...technology.htm
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:25 PM   #4
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NYCshopper,

I learn much more about automobile technology here than I do anywhere else because of you

Anyway, this EWB technology is exciting!
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:28 PM   #5
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I dont see any discussion about wear and longevity...
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
I dont see any discussion about wear and longevity...
Quote:
As well as providing greatly improved braking ability, wedge brakes are significantly lighter than today’s most advanced hydraulic units. With fewer moving parts, they also could be more reliable and last longer.
Otherwise it's very interesting - wonder what this will do to the new car market in 2008 and to various racing series. If it does work as advertised, I wonder if it would be possible to retrofit the system.
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:03 PM   #7
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I see it, I've read it, but I don't "get it" exactly.

<# johnny 5> Need more input </# johnny 5"

But it sounds really cool!
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:14 PM   #8
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what happens to Brake feel--or rather the lack thereof. If there's no hydraulic system behind it, where's the feedback come from?
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:34 PM   #9
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what happens to Brake feel--or rather the lack thereof. If there's no hydraulic system behind it, where's the feedback come from?
I wondered the same thing. I guess they could supply some sort of Force Feedback... heck if Logitech can do it...
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:35 PM   #10
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In tests, a prototype with the wedge brakes regularly required less than half the distance to come to a complete stop than the prototype with the standard brakes, a company official said.

WOW!
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Old 11-09-2006, 01:49 PM   #11
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if they think electronic brakes will be quicker, then why is electronic shifting so much slower?

so far nothing electrical on the car that was formally cable or hydraulic has been any better, IMO.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:06 PM   #12
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so far nothing electrical on the car that was formally cable or hydraulic has been any better, IMO.
The tunability is better with the electronic replacements, which is something they mention with these brakes.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:10 PM   #13
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http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=15444



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A radical new electronic braking system will dramatically reduce stopping distances and react in a fraction of the time of current hydraulic systems, according to its inventor Siemens.

Currently being tested by a number of European car makers, the electronic wedge brake, or EWB, works by using the momentum of the car to provide greatly increased braking power. When the driver hits the brakes, the pad is pushed into the brake disc by the wedge. The faster the car is travelling, the greater the force of the wedge on the brake pad. Seimens also says it requires mush less effort from the driver and is quicker to respond, which makes the EWB ideal in emergency situations. It reacts quicker because the EWB does not have to wait for pressure to build in the hydraulic fluid. Instead, a small electric motor pushes the wedge against the pad, taking about a tenth of the time of a hydraulic system. The motor runs off the car's 12-volt electrical supply and can use the stored energy in the car's battery when the engine is not running.

Another advantage of wedge brakes is that each wheel is slowed independently of the others, which allows the braking effort to be distributed more precisely. An electronic sensor monitors how much braking force is being passed through each wheel and acts as an anti-lock device to prevent skidding.

Tests of prototypes fitted with EWB wedge brakes have shown the system can bring a car to a halt in less than half the distance required by cars with hydraulic brakes. Manufacturers are keeping quiet about EWB's development, but it's thought Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are all working on it and expect to launch cars fitted with EWB in 2008
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
The tunability is better with the electronic replacements, which is something they mention with these brakes.
yes, but how realistic is it going to be? i havent seen very many tunable tiptronic parts on the market, or tunable DBW parts. Maybe for racing its great, and if thats what they are going for then I will shut up (since i didnt read the article), but i dont see it as any better for consumer cars.
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:31 PM   #15
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Great. Now electrical problem = unstoppable car.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:13 PM   #16
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I was under the impression that stopping distance was more a function of the weight of the car and the friction with the road (tires & surface). A high performance brake kit like on an STI seemingly has enough force to lock up the wheels regardless of speed, so braking force isn't what limits the stopping distance, right?

So how could they possibly halt a car in half the distance by applying even more braking force? Maybe the electronic torque sensing control to prevent locking up the wheels makes more of a difference than the extra force. Or else there is something else I'm missing here.

Either way, I'm excited about better brakes. Bring them on.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:35 PM   #17
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Each corner would likely be independent of the others to facilitate stability control, so it would take a major central failure to loose braking force. Also, there will always be a backup system, like the emergency brake in current cars.

And I'm guessing pedal feel will be like electronic throttles; adjustable to different applications. I wouldn't be suprised if they add a solenoid/servo to the brake pedal to articulate certain feedback aspects.

Tom
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAX View Post
yes, but how realistic is it going to be? i havent seen very many tunable tiptronic parts on the market, or tunable DBW parts. Maybe for racing its great, and if thats what they are going for then I will shut up (since i didnt read the article), but i dont see it as any better for consumer cars.
Completely different senario. A "tiptronic" transmission is simply an automatic trans with a more manual control of gear selection. It doesn't allow faster shifting without modifying the fluid passage ways or pressures.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:50 PM   #19
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it might sounds good in paper has anyone thought of what would happen if somehow somewhat a tiny pice of rock or dust could have interfer with the electronic motor? as the driver have no way to tell his/her brake is not working
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kukabuka View Post
I was under the impression that stopping distance was more a function of the weight of the car and the friction with the road (tires & surface). A high performance brake kit like on an STI seemingly has enough force to lock up the wheels regardless of speed, so braking force isn't what limits the stopping distance, right?

So how could they possibly halt a car in half the distance by applying even more braking force? Maybe the electronic torque sensing control to prevent locking up the wheels makes more of a difference than the extra force. Or else there is something else I'm missing here.

Either way, I'm excited about better brakes. Bring them on.
practical stopping distance is a function of tire grip first, and brake fade after that. Especially for performance cars, as the brakes are sized up a bit to handle heat transfer better. So long as a brake system has the capacity to absorb/transfer/radiate the energy fast enough, stopping distance is independant of car weight. Odd but true. If it was truly half the distance, the vehicle had undersized brakes to start with.

Brakes change kinetic energy into heat through friction. If they are limited in how fast they can do that (small pad/rotor size, pressure, material qualities, etc) then they can only stop so fast. It looks like this system could apply more pressure more quickly (and is self-energizing) to help reduce brake distances.

Something like this seems like it could easily be a retrofit to current cars;the rotor is likely the same, just a different caliper and a wiring harness and voila, a new brake system! If I were an aftermarket brake company I'd be jumping all over this.

Tom
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:54 PM   #21
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it might sounds good in paper has anyone thought of what would happen if somehow somewhat a tiny pice of rock or dust could have interfer with the electronic motor? as the driver have no way to tell his/her brake is not working
If thier brake isn't working they'll know. The motors would be enclosed, no worry. There are loads of federal requirements a new brake system would have to pass, not to mention OEM durability & safety testing.

Tom
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:57 PM   #22
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if they think electronic brakes will be quicker, then why is electronic shifting so much slower?

so far nothing electrical on the car that was formally cable or hydraulic has been any better, IMO.
Are you talking in reference to manual shifting? Automatics shift slower to be smoother. they could bang of shifts (which would actually be more durable), but very few people want that (relatively).

Most manumatic racing transmissions (I'm thinking WRC here) shift much faster than a human could, but I don't know if they are hydraulic or solenoid based.

Tom
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Old 11-09-2006, 05:31 PM   #23
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if they think electronic brakes will be quicker, then why is electronic shifting so much slower?

so far nothing electrical on the car that was formally cable or hydraulic has been any better, IMO.
What about electric radiators? One less belt needed, and no sapping of power from the engine. Electric steering is a great idea, but the feedback you get from the wheel (or lack of) needs to be addresses.

Also, you have to realize that most of these are 1st gen products - time is needed to improve them. I have absolutely no more trust in a plastic hose filled with fluid than I do with a circuit board attached to an electric motor.


And concerning your comment on transmissions - that is not valid. A true clutchless tranny with paddle shifters is many times faster in shifting than even the fastest professional driver.
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:30 PM   #24
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well my point was simple. Consumer electronics in cars have never seemed to outdo hydraulics or cable (belts are another story). Even the transmission is still valid, because even if you compare it to the automatic tranny, a tiptronic is still slower. If electronics sped things up, then a tiptronic should still be faster the regular auto, just like the manutronic racing trannies are faster then a regular manual. Its simply consumers dont get that advantage.

the braking thing basically boils down to DBW and the electic steering like Hazdaz mentioned. I dont think there is anything to gain from electronic braking but you do lose the feel of the pedal, just like you lose the feel of the pedal for DBW. While it can be simulated, IMO, its about as good as a steering wheel and pedals for your computer, and I think we all agree those are not good enough for real world subsitutes. I dont see how this will help anything, while it may be a decent substitute, a claim of changing brakes forever is far-fetched.

But oh well, i dont rule the world so my opinion is merely my own.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:04 AM   #25
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wow roll eyes roll eyes x5

nasioc armchair engineers knows their sh.t as evidenced by this thread.

rooooooooooooooooolls own eyes
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