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Old 11-12-2006, 12:41 PM   #1
D-Speed 2.5
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Default EcuTEK with Perrin EBCS Question

EcuTEK tune with Perrin EBCS, 2005 WRX Wagon, stock turbo, ~5,000-11,000 ft in elevation.

I had a great EcuTEK tune done by a guy named Harvey out here in CO. I put down 227whp and 225wtq using the stock turbo at 6,000 ft above sea level. I make peak power at 15lbs but my tune sees 17lbs tapering to around 12.5lbs.

Anyways, I love the Perrin EBCS in that my boost gauge now "sweeps" because it builds boost so fast. However, going up hill, I will spike at around 22lbs and then hold at about 20 in 5th gear. In all other gears my tune stays true to the desired boost level (~17lbs). Also, this only happens going up hill in 5th gear.

Can someone explain to me why boost in 5th gear is acting so wierd and only does so when going up hill? I know it has to do with load and wastegate duty cycle. And, can someone explain to me how my Perrin EBCS fits into this equation and if it may be causing the problem? The whole situation doesn't bother me that much in that I am rarely at full boost in 5th gear but it is still an annoyance.

Thanks.
-D
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:34 AM   #2
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If you ECU have per Gear boost like the STI ones, get the ECUTek Tuner to use it.

You may also look into slacking your actuator some more to control boost and have the ECUTek tuner adjust the wastegate maps for this change.
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:50 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
If you ECU have per Gear boost like the STI ones, get the ECUTek Tuner to use it.

You may also look into slacking your actuator some more to control boost and have the ECUTek tuner adjust the wastegate maps for this change.
Thanks. However, if I adjust the WG duty cycle, I will loose some of my power in other gears. I have come to the conclusion that I am just going to have to live with this and that it is a byproduct of the EBCS, it almost holds boost too well.
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Old 11-14-2006, 07:05 PM   #4
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Thre are way. You may have to reduce the rpm for where the wg curve changes.

post a 3 gear log from 1000 or 1500 rpm to redline at WOT. I will tell you which point would be good to look at to try to get it under control
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Old 11-14-2006, 07:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
Thre are way. You may have to reduce the rpm for where the wg curve changes.

post a 3 gear log from 1000 or 1500 rpm to redline at WOT. I will tell you which point would be good to look at to try to get it under control
I don't have any data logging capabilities right now. I am getting a retune in a couple of weeks and will post my logs/results.
-D
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Old 11-14-2006, 07:14 PM   #6
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the cable cost $91 and the logging software is free
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:09 AM   #7
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This is "normal" as in that it's a common problem. If in the budget, get an AVC-R (even used) and you'll notice a huge difference. You can program per gear, play with boost curves and a whole lot more. It also has a learn function so it custom tailors to each gear. Otherwise, I think you have to find a balance between the duty cycles of each gear to compensate for 5th.

Feel better that you don't have an MBC, those exacerbate that problem.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:06 AM   #8
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the ecu does not know it is going up hill.
the extra load produced from the incline
causes you or cruise control to depress the
accelerator and there by increase the volume
of air / fuel to ingested. the extra air / fuel
now causes the exhaust flow to increase.

where does our beloved boost come from?
exhaust gas energy.

so there you have your boost creep.

class dismissed..you will be quizzed later..
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:05 PM   #9
D-Speed 2.5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackRex View Post
This is "normal" as in that it's a common problem. If in the budget, get an AVC-R (even used) and you'll notice a huge difference. You can program per gear, play with boost curves and a whole lot more. It also has a learn function so it custom tailors to each gear. Otherwise, I think you have to find a balance between the duty cycles of each gear to compensate for 5th.

Feel better that you don't have an MBC, those exacerbate that problem.
Thanks for the info. I think I may just live with the problem for now until my next upgrade which will be a VF39.
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:09 PM   #10
D-Speed 2.5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
the ecu does not know it is going up hill.
the extra load produced from the incline
causes you or cruise control to depress the
accelerator and there by increase the volume
of air / fuel to ingested. the extra air / fuel
now causes the exhaust flow to increase.

where does our beloved boost come from?
exhaust gas energy.

so there you have your boost creep.

class dismissed..you will be quizzed later..
I know all of that, however, the problem does not occur at WOT on a flat stretch of road. It only happens at WOT going up hills. Can you or someone explain to me the effect of load (from a hill) and how it affects the wastegate duty cycle only in 5th gear? I have researched but still don't understand. Maybe I should post a seperate thread.

-D
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Old 12-02-2006, 10:30 AM   #11
jaxscuby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Speed 2.5 View Post
Can you or someone explain to me the effect of load (from a hill) and how it affects the wastegate duty cycle only in 5th gear? I have researched but still don't understand. Maybe I should post a seperate thread.

-D
look at it this way.
when you're cruisung along the highway and want to maintain
a certain speed with cruise control the engine senses the speed
that you desire. so when you go up an incline the ecu applies more gas.
more exhaust flow. so now the wastegate duty cycle is a fixed number
in the wgd table in the ecu. so the ecu only opens the wastegate
the predetermined amount called for in the table. so if there is an
excess of exhaust flow the opening is not enough to bleed off the
remaining excessive exhaust energy.

did that help?
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:57 PM   #12
D-Speed 2.5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
look at it this way.
when you're cruisung along the highway and want to maintain
a certain speed with cruise control the engine senses the speed
that you desire. so when you go up an incline the ecu applies more gas.
more exhaust flow. so now the wastegate duty cycle is a fixed number
in the wgd table in the ecu. so the ecu only opens the wastegate
the predetermined amount called for in the table. so if there is an
excess of exhaust flow the opening is not enough to bleed off the
remaining excessive exhaust energy.

did that help?
Gotcha. Let me make sure I have this right:

So the WGDC values in my reflash are fixed and can no longer be adjusted automatically for increased load conditions by the stock ECU. This means that the wastegate cannot compensate for the increased exhaust flow only experienced in an up hill load situation.

Does this mean that a weakness of the ECUTek software is the fact that wastegate duty values cannot be left to be automatically adjusted by the stock ECU to a value higher than what is in the table? Will raising the value in the table for increased load conditions negatively affect the WGDC numbers for regular load conditions?

Thanks in advance.
-D
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:50 PM   #13
jaxscuby
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OMGHi2U close...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Speed 2.5 View Post
Gotcha. Let me make sure I have this right:

So the WGDC values in my reflash are fixed and can no longer be adjusted automatically for increased load conditions by the stock ECU. This means that the wastegate cannot compensate for the increased exhaust flow only experienced in an up hill load situation.

Does this mean that a weakness of the ECUTek software is the fact that wastegate duty values cannot be left to be automatically adjusted by the stock ECU to a value higher than what is in the table? Will raising the value in the table for increased load conditions negatively affect the WGDC numbers for regular load conditions?

Thanks in advance.
-D
well far as i know there are no ecu that alter wgd maps.
the values are in a table, so fixed.

the values in wgd tables go like this 100 fully closed
and 0 fully open. but 0 is rarely used..more like 20..

so if you entered values that would let the waste gate open
wider you would less boost on level surface.

unless you had a boost map switch..the 02~03 do.
suppossibly there are new ecutek software coming
out to allow the +04 to have 2 boost maps.

clear as mud?
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:08 PM   #14
D-Speed 2.5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
well far as i know there are no ecu that alter wgd maps.
the values are in a table, so fixed.

the values in wgd tables go like this 100 fully closed
and 0 fully open. but 0 is rarely used..more like 20..

so if you entered values that would let the waste gate open
wider you would less boost on level surface.

unless you had a boost map switch..the 02~03 do.
suppossibly there are new ecutek software coming
out to allow the +04 to have 2 boost maps.

clear as mud?
I get it now. Thanks,
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Old 12-19-2006, 03:20 PM   #15
Turbo_Mike
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I can explain.
You see, programmed into your turbo dynamics map, it is set so that you see an increasing amount of WGDC even if the ECU sees that the boost is spot on. This is to counter-act boost hunting during rapid acceleration. At all times this setting works just fine, except when you're going up hill in 5th. Its not because of more or less load, its because of your rate of acceleration. Since you're accelerating at WOT and the ECU is expecting that it needs to continue increasing WGDC to make up for an RPM increase that isnt happening, you overshoot your target and at that point your ECU does not have the authority to turn down the boost enough to get it under control. If your negative values on the turbo dynamics table were decreased ( pull more WGDC ) Problem solved...
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