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Old 11-14-2006, 02:51 PM   #1
TlistGT
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Angry Help with cam seal procedure and SOA

Hi I'm new to the forum, but I need some expert subaru advice. So long sad story short. My brother has a 1996 legacy Gt wagon. He brought it in to a dealership for a timing belt change. They did the belt and cam seals. Approx 5k miles later and driving the car home to Cali from Michigan the passenger side cam pulley bolt broke and the belt skipped, and as you can imagine, internal engine damage.

Now, he has tried to hold the dealership accountable, but is not having much luck yet, without going to court. Their latest claim is that they would not have to take the cam pulley off to replace the cam seal. Now, even though the service manager at the dealership that did the work said he removed it. Wouldn't the standard subaru procedure call for the removal of the pulleys or am I wrong?

He has talked to SOA, and they said at first that the bolt should absolutely never break, but since then they have of course given him the run around and claimed they never said that... What do you guys think?

In my opinion there is no reason a bolt like that should break unless something was done improperly....
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Old 11-14-2006, 05:31 PM   #2
North Ursalia
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Ask them to show you how to fit the cam seal with a 3/4" center opening over the 6" diameter pulley. Tell him if he can do it, you won't hold them responsible.


Brian

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Old 11-14-2006, 09:45 PM   #3
ImprezaVA
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Default Broken Cam bolt

/\ /\

The dealership insulted your intelligence. That bolt, IIRC, should have been torqued to 58 ft-lbs and there is no way to replace the cam seal(s) without removing the pulley(s). With the mechanic telling you he didn't need to remove the pulley for this procedure, well, in my mind, he is admitting fault b/c that is a lie. If he didn't replace the cam seal, well, he lied to you again.

-Charles-
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:45 PM   #4
Tim Sanderson
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The bolt broke? That's a pretty beefy bolt.

I'm surprised they did'nt at least offer to "help out" with the repairs.
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:58 PM   #5
2slofouru
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I can't see that bolt breaking, but if it wasn't tightened, maybe the cam gear worked its way out to the end of the camshaft and sheared the last few threads off when the pulley finally pulled off. They should completely reimburse you for a new shortblock and the labor for repairing it if they actually caused that. That is ridiculous for them to tell you they wouldn't have to remove the cam gear to change the seal!
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:07 PM   #6
TlistGT
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Default

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I thought, I haven't actually done the procedure on that car but it made no sense to me. I also agree with the fact that the bolt is extrememly beefy for a plastic pulley, and there is no logical reason for it to break. I'm a mechanical engineer and I work in the automotive industry, things like this are not designed to break ever. I had hard time trying to figure out what might have caused it.

The cam gear coming off is an interesting idea, does anyone have pictures of the assembly? I'm trying to get my hands on the actual bolt to see how it failed.

I've attached a link to the only pictures i have that were taken by the mechanic who first removed the timing belt cover to see what was wrong.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rovahr...?.dir=/56cdre2
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:20 PM   #7
North Ursalia
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Download this http://www.ravensblade.com/wow/cams.pdf

They are instructions for replacing a camshaft, but they are appropriate for replacing a cam seal as well. The proceedure is essentially the same for this purpose, regardless of SOHC or DOHC motors. The first instructions are to remove the timing belt and all cam pullies.

Print this, take it to the dealership, and tell them to pay up. It is clearly their fault, and they should have used Loctite on that bolt in any event to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen.


Brian
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Old 11-15-2006, 06:15 PM   #8
EeeJay20
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Default

They are at fault 100%.
It is impossible to replace the cam seals without removing the
Cam Pulley first.
They should stand the costs of a full repair - probally bent valves,
damaged guides and damaged Piston Crown(s).
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