V8 Swap Questions

[hexadec0079]

There is a slowly dieing (spelling?) 1993 legacy near my house. Slipping clutch and bad paint etc.

Took some measurements and was thinking about a V8 swap.

No,no,no not a version 8 subaru engine, a eight cylinder motor. It will physically hold a ford 302 (5.0L) Switch to carb'd and a R180 rear end and swap fuel pump. Weld in universal motor mounts and use T-5. Same cable clutch, simple wiring, custom gauges, and keep the rest stock. 15 inch steelies and be sleeping. 300hp and 300 lb/ft with minor mods. Simple, maybe.

Just looking for some advice on the feasibility, and is it really as simple as I'm thinking, or am I stupid. Thanks for your opinions.

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[RusEvo]

Well Im afraid I cant answer your question. My car knowledge is limited to changing the oil filter & watching Monster Garage.

I will say that your thinking is interesting.

However isnt it rev-head heresy to put another make of engine under the bonnet?? Then again, its not like there are many Scooby engines to meet your requirements.

Have you thought of doing up a Scooby 3 litre engine to put in it?

Havent there been 3.3 Scooby engines in the past & wouldnt a modern Scooby engine be better than an old stlye V8?

I look forward to hearing what people will say.

[hexadec0079]

Umm yes, I have a EG33 in my possession, its in my SVX, lol. Its staying in there though.

But I was thinking the ease of swapage, removing all wiring that is engine related and running carb'd. Plus the huge range of suspension for Subaru and power range of V8 engines is a great combo

Heresy, perhaps, but cheap, powerful, and effective, hell yeah. Sacrilege or not. People say the V8 Rx-7 swap is crap, but its very popular and effective.

A V8 powered wagon FTW

[Wiscon_Mark]

Well, if you have the space, money, time, and guts...why not?

The EG33 won't actually fit in the Legacy without modification to the radiator...it's a bit longer (6") than any EJ engine.

[gotsol]

with a big enough hammer and a welder anything can happen. good luck

[badbasser98]

One point to remember about the boxer engine is how its built. The engine is fairly light weight (aluminum alloy) compared to many 8 cylinder engines which are normally a cast iron block. Also since the boxer engine is flat, it has a very low center of gravity which helps the handling of the car. Plus you must take into consideration the weight distribution front to rear. A V8 would significantly raise the center of gravity on the car, destroy the weight balance of the Legacy wagons which both are benefits of the wagon's handling. From your post, I assume you want a good handling car. I don't think you'll get one if you slap a V8 in and call it a day. I am not trying to deter you from doing the swap, it would be very interesting to see the results, I just don't feel you are going to be completely happy with the results if its even possible (by possible I mean if it can be done in a reasonable time frame with reasonable amount of money spent, because we all know anything is possible )

If you really want to swap it, I would go for a 30R swap (assuming it fits). Yes the wiring would be a nightmare, but you would have a much more drivable car (power wise and handling) and it wouldn't kill the "balance" quite as much.

Just my $0.02

[Wiscon_Mark]

True enough, the Legacy isn't a good handling platform if you drop that much weight in. Unless you make it a mid engine car

But you can do things to help balance the weight a little bit. relocating the battery to the spare tire well or something like that comes to mind. Not much you can do about the lower center of gravity though...

[MitchGT]

If you have the time, $$$$, and patience....why not?

[KD7000]

Originally Posted by MitchGT

If you have the time, $$$$, and patience....why not?

Because a '93 Leg chassis isn't going to handle the power and weight of a v8 without a crapload of enhancements. If you really want to salvage an older Subaru, then just put a WRX motor in.

The reason why things like dropping a V8 into an RX-7 are popular is that the cars can accommodate it with a minimum of mods & they keep their inherent balance.

What the heck would you do with a RWD, carburated V8 Leg wagon? Just drag race it? You sure aren't going to use it as a daily driver.

This project concept, while surely achievable if you throw tons of money into it, seems really pointless.

[MitchGT]

^^^^ Let me re-phrase:

If you have a rediculous amount of time, $$$, and patience, then why not?

[GTWagon_Phreak]

Little to no traction, handling tossed out the window, and nose heavy to boot. Yep, sounds like a muscle car

[Wiscon_Mark]

Originally Posted by KD7000

Because a '93 Leg chassis isn't going to handle the power and weight of a v8 without a crapload of enhancements. If you really want to salvage an older Subaru, then just put a WRX motor in.

I disagree about the power. I've seen some EJ22Ts that are putting way more power out than a 5.0L V8.

It'll handle the weight too, it'll just be unbalanced.

[vitai0]

Unsure about the conversion but I know someone on the impreza boards did a V8 subaru WRX. He may be able to help a bit more than us.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855426

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...9&page=1&pp=20

good luck with the swap. Hope to see something new like this idea!!
m.

[GTWagon_Phreak]

Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark

I disagree about the power. I've seen some EJ22Ts that are putting way more power out than a 5.0L V8.

It'll handle the weight too, it'll just be unbalanced.

Super amounts of power being squeezed out of a 2.2L four cylinder is quite different than gobs of torque coming out of an eight cylinder. Not saying it won't work, just pointing out there is quite a difference.

[rougeben83]

comparing a modded turbo 4 to a stock v8? C'mon mark you should know better

[KD7000]

Originally Posted by vitai0

He may be able to help a bit more than us.

I doubt it.

Did you read through either of those links? Apparently, not only is that guy a scammer, but a year after his swap project began, it still wasn't done.

[Wiscon_Mark]

So a 5.0 putting out a flat torque curve is going to do more damage than an EJ22T putting out a peaky, but very large amount of power? I mean, I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't think that the car's chassis will have a problem with it, unless you're going 500+ HP/TQ

[Plays_With_toys]

I'm reminded of an article done by.... car and driver? They tried to make a taurus SHO wagon. The first time they started the motor the whole frame twisted in half.

Will it fit? Will it work? Will it be powerful? Probably. Can the frame take that much torque? I wouldn't think so... Maybe a 6 cylinder would be the better, lighter option?

[KD7000]

Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark

So a 5.0 putting out a flat torque curve is going to do more damage than an EJ22T putting out a peaky, but very large amount of power?

Yes. Large amounts of torque at lower RPM put a much greater strain on the driveline components.

While you're being so damn stubborn about this, Mark, could you post or link to a dyno chart of a 1st Gen Leg putting out 300/300? A car that doesn't also have tons and tons of suspension & chassis mods?

[Wiscon_Mark]

I just don't see how the 1st gen is so much weaker than the 2nd gen. Anthony is putting out well more than 300/300 (well, was). It's pretty much the same chassis with a few small changes.

[KD7000]

And wasn't he breaking drivetrain parts on a monthly basis?

-- Mark, you're missing the point. Sure, if you have enough money, you can cram a small block V8 into a Leg wagon, and make it work. But to what end? What is the point, and what do you do with such a thing? Just because something can be done does not justify the cost or effort, nor does it necessarily make it a good idea.

How much money is it really worth? All the changes, upgrades, modifications, and whatever else you'd need to do are simply not worth investing into a beat up, neglected '93 platform.

You may have a different opinion on the subject, and that's cool with me. But would you really spend your hard-earned money on such a pointless project?

Let me remind you of the original question that was asked:

Originally Posted by hexadec0079

Just looking for some advice on the feasibility, and is it really as simple as I'm thinking, or am I stupid. Thanks for your opinions.

Since you're asking, I vote for stupid.

[hexadec0079]

OK I see your points, but the old Legacy is not exactly a handling vehicle.

Suspension will consist of Cusco coils with uber high spring rates in the front. New bushings etc.

The car will be pretty stripped (Dash, carpet, and 4 seats) No padding, AC, EGR, or any thing unnecassary. Yes, it will be good for dragging and hauling the groceries.

Loud, heavy, questionable, Absolutely.

Fast, cheap, fast, again Absolutely.

But its still up in the air.

[Wiscon_Mark]

Originally Posted by KD7000

And wasn't he breaking drivetrain parts on a monthly basis?

yeah, his Legacy axles weren't holding up. That can't be fixed? I was more referring to the chassis strength. Drivetrain can be upgraded much more easily than that.

I do agree that it's not the best way to do it on a Legacy, but I'm also open to this guy doing what he wants with it. I think a V8 would be kinda cool if done right.

[hexadec0079]

Custom Axles are a phone call way.
They can make Axles as strong as you want.

[vitai0]

I know exactly what you need to do with that Ford motor... Find yourself a Volvo wagon and drop it in that! Those sleepers rock and its easy to do.


Converse Eng. looks like they know what they are doing....
m.

http://www.converseengineering.com/
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ebailey/v8volvo.htm
http://www.geocities.com/southern_co.../emery740.html
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/gi...d/pictures.htm
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Volvo_700_V-8.html
http://www.warrensweb.com/volvo/great_links.htm