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Old 11-12-2001, 12:58 AM   #1
seowitz
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Default HELP! Bad gaskets (2nd time) on a Gen 1 EJ25

I blew my head gaskets on my Gen 1 EJ25 again. 115k miles on a 97 Legacy Outback.

OK, I do not want to put those crappy oem one's in again so they can blow out in 30k miles.

So, I heard Cobb tuning makes a copper head gasket....is this much better than the oem one, who else makes them that won't die, and where do i get them.

I've also heard about o-ringing the block.....would this do anything.....

help!
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:32 AM   #2
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did you replace the headbolts last time you did the head gaskets??

Jeremy
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:37 AM   #3
seowitz
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When the service was done, it was warranty work done by Ambassador Auto in Moscow, Idaho. So if you are ever considering getting anything done there, keep driving. Absolutely the worst auto experience of my life.

But, I checked my service records, and the bolts were not on the parts list.
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:45 AM   #4
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well because IIRC subaru uses stretch bolts which are to be replaced each time the cylinder head is removed. You could try calling SOA but chances are they will just tell you to get lost. I would look into a set of cobb Copper head gaskets...unless you are going boosted you have no use for cylinder o-ringing. Just get a new set of gaskets and have the heads check for warps or cracks.

Jeremy
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:58 AM   #5
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Default .............

ok, so i just remembered that after that the head gasket problem (btw, the gaskets were done twice at the place in idaho), i had cracked headers due to over-tightening.

if they dealership replaced my head gaskets when the heads were re-done, (about 15k ago), but less than a year.....think i'd have a better shot at bad service warranty?

should i talk to a dealership, the dealership that did the work, or just try and find a soa rep?
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Old 11-12-2001, 02:16 AM   #6
seowitz
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ok, so i just remembered that after that the head gasket problem (btw, the gaskets were done twice at the place in idaho), i had cracked headers due to over-tightening.

if they dealership replaced my head gaskets when the heads were re-done, (about 15k ago), but less than a year.....think i'd have a better shot at bad service warranty?

should i talk to a dealership, the dealership that did the work, or just try and find a soa rep?
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Old 11-12-2001, 10:54 AM   #7
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I'm confused. Are you saying you think they may have replaced the head gaskets 15k ago because the headers were cracked? Or were the heads cracked?They would not have replaced the head gaskets in the process of replacing the headers, but they certainly would have (or at least damn well better have) replaced the head gaskets if they replaced a cracked head.

If it's been less than a year since the head gaskets were replaced, you should be covered under and unlimited mileage 12 month parts warranty. That's how I got my head gaskets replaced the 2nd time, even though the car was about 18,000 miles beyond the original 60k warranty.

It definitely can't hurt to call SOA (1800-SUBARU-3) but for now I'd just talk to you local dealer and show them the receipt from the last time the head gaskets were replaced (assuming it's been under 12 months).

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

PS - For some more gasket options, check out http://i-club.com/forums/showthread....t=head+gaskets . Also, I vaguely recall someone telling me that SPO Motorsports might have some better gaskets.
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:46 AM   #8
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Talking SWWWWWEEEEEEETTTTT

OK, thanks for your words of advice Patrick....

The heads were replaced on November 30th of last year. It should be covered if it is the head gaskets. Mine were originally replaced past the 60k warranty, but were covered on the 100k extended warranty. Thank god I had that one!

But due to shotty service I recieved, this whole chain of events, and repairs has happened. I contacted the dealership the work was done at, and if it is the gaskets it should be covered. However, I am going to call SOA today before I bring it in to the dealership.

Second question....
If the dealer does warranty work, do you think there is any way I'd be able to get their machine shop to port/polish the heads??? I figure if the damn heads are off I should get that done....

Thanks again
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:25 PM   #9
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as far as engine work goes, the answer is probably not. becuase they are gonan want to get the car in and out. No more time there then it has to be.

Jeremy
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Old 11-12-2001, 02:11 PM   #10
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you're probably right, but i gotta try anyways
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Old 11-12-2001, 03:08 PM   #11
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plus if anything goes wrong they will deny responsibility saying you had the cylinder heads "modified" from factory form. Good luck.

jeremy
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Old 11-12-2001, 04:06 PM   #12
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Aha! So I'm not alone with this problem! Do I smell a recall?

Ed
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Old 11-12-2001, 08:20 PM   #13
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hey dude
i just got my 98rs back from the dealership. 1642 bucks later and nice new oem head gaskets. i hope they last. good luck man
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Old 11-12-2001, 10:30 PM   #14
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Here is what Josh at Cobb said - the copper head gaskets require you to o-ring the block to seal properly. So, now you are looking at porting the heads and o-ringing the block while it is apart.

I wonder if the heads are warped or cracked too.

Larry
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Old 11-14-2001, 03:37 PM   #15
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Okay folks, after 2 days in the shop my Forester is back with new head gasket, water pump gasket and water pump (which hadn't failed but was replaced because "the gasket was impregnated in the pump" ). At any rate I reviewed the parts inventory on the receipt and did not see new stretch bolts included on the list. Should I be concerned, or is this more of an issue for Phase I EJ25s rather than Phase IIs (like I have)? Should I get SoA involved again?

Ed
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Old 11-15-2001, 12:01 AM   #16
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I am assuming part of the old head gasket was in the old water pump. Dunno about the stretch bolts though.

Larry
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Old 11-15-2001, 03:54 PM   #17
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I didn't see anything in the factory service manual about the head bolts being consumable, so I think Jeremy is mistaken.
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Old 11-15-2001, 03:58 PM   #18
seowitz
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So I took the car into the crappy dealership for warranty repair on what I'm thinking is my head gaskets.

For two days they could not get it to overheat on them.
I finally went down to the dealership, and drove it for 2 miles and got it to over heat. I brought it back in to prove it and they are finally looking at the car now.

When I had last brought my car in to them, the heads, and gaskets were done. I just got a call from the service advisor I'm dealing with and he told me that it might not be the head gaskets, could be bad heads, and since they were not done earlier that they would not be covered on the parts warranty.

So I questioned him, reading off the parts listing on my invoice, he started giving me the runaround.
I just spoke to him, and he finally realized that the heads were done, and the heads are supposed to be pulled off today.

I just don't see why they are so difficult to work with for warranty service. Hell, why should the dealership really care? It's paid for by Subaru dammit, doesn't come out of their pocket, the dealership gets paid for it.

Anyways, I think this is the start of a long battle. When I took it in to get the heads done last time, it took 2 weeks to get my car back. I've had so many problems with the tubby bitch (outback) I really have no idea why I still have the thing!
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Old 11-15-2001, 08:56 PM   #19
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Thanks, Larry and Colin, for that info.

Seowitz - good luck.

Ed
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Old 11-16-2001, 02:06 AM   #20
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i might be mistaken...but i coulda sworn when we redid 8complex's engine that they utilized stretch head bolts and they are not to be reused...but then again i could be wrong...and yes with Copper head gaskets you are supposed to o-ring them...most of them say it right on the packaging.

jeremy
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Old 11-16-2001, 09:30 AM   #21
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As for warranty work I think SOA only pays around 35 dollars for labor instead of the 65 must dealers charge. So basicly SOA pays enough to cover the mechanic but not make a proffit for the dealer. So the faster your out the quicker some non-warranty work is.
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Old 11-16-2001, 10:40 AM   #22
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Angry

As of the end of yesterday, they took one of the heads off, and found nothing. I've got a bad feeling they aren't going to find anything, and i'm going to be stuck with like $600 labor bill and still have an overheating car.

They said they're gonna do the other today, and I should know by mid-day where they're going next with this.
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Old 11-16-2001, 11:01 AM   #23
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could be an air bubble in the cooling system.

do a search-- if you don't find anything good post again and I'll find the topics because I've found them before.
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Old 11-16-2001, 12:22 PM   #24
seowitz
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new coolant's been put in by my mechanic and the dealership now, so i don't think that that is it. that was done after the problem started, and it's still overheating. new thermostat was put in as well.

Last edited by seowitz; 11-16-2001 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 11-16-2001, 04:25 PM   #25
seowitz
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Talking it's fixed!

The problem has been fixed. I pick it up later today. I was told it was a blown #2 cylinder. Also, it's going to be covered under the warranty from the previous work putting new heads on.

So they are putting new head gaskets on again, but they would not let me port/polish the heads if i wanted to be done as warranty service. dammit!

Thanks for your advice here?

Soo.....what can cause a blown cylinder

Erik
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