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Old 12-05-2006, 11:12 PM   #1
Nixlimited
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Default Does Hydra have CL boost targeting?

I am curious, since hydra is MAP based, does it have the ability to adjust WGDC to hit target boosts like the TurboXS BC-pro? It seems to me that this is just a programming extension of the auto-tune feature taking WB02 feedback and calculating map corrections.

I will be going Hydra soon, very much looking forward to a new toy and no MAF.
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:19 AM   #2
Element Tuning
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Yes the Element Hydra has a PID based closed loop boost control system that you can actually adjust the Proportional, Integral, and the Derivative.



Your boost is set in the Boost Target Map based on RPM. You can also adjust the start RPM for the system to turn on allowing faster boost response or to reduce boost spiking. Adjusting your PID will allow you to make finite adjustments to how the closed loop boost control system interacts with the target. This feature is explained in our tuning guides.



In PWM Map 4 you can adjust the duty cycle of the solenoid. This isn't direct duty values but instead a guide for the system to work with based on how close to the Boost Target Map is to actual boost levels. The Element Hydra also has gear based adjustment so you can reduce over boosting in higher gears and under boosting in lower gears.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:27 AM   #3
Nixlimited
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Thanks Phil, I guess it's good that I just ordered one from element!

Next question, can you tie Defi sensors into the ECU to do things like restrict the boost based on oil temp??? I know the Hydra has analog and digital inputs.
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:39 PM   #4
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question.... is the hydra based boost control system still better than a standalone boost controller...such as the Eboost 2? I have the hydra and the eboost 2 already in the car, but not sure if i am going to keep the eboost 2 to control boost on my rotated setup, or ditch it and reconnect the stock boost solenoid and have hydra run that..
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixlimited View Post
Thanks Phil, I guess it's good that I just ordered one from element!

Next question, can you tie Defi sensors into the ECU to do things like restrict the boost based on oil temp??? I know the Hydra has analog and digital inputs.
You cannot input your Defi gauges into the STI Hydra. Since we design the Hydra to utilize most of the OEM sensors there really aren't very many available inputs that we don't already use for launch control, flat shifting, anti-lag, Hydramist, maps switching, AC, purge control, boost control, etc. It all adds up very quickly.

As the CAN chip in the Hydra is fully developed it shoud allow for more options but for now there aren't too many extra inputs and outputs available.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:28 PM   #6
Nixlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
You cannot input your Defi gauges into the STI Hydra. Since we design the Hydra to utilize most of the OEM sensors there really aren't very many available inputs that we don't already use for launch control, flat shifting, anti-lag, Hydramist, maps switching, AC, purge control, boost control, etc. It all adds up very quickly.

As the CAN chip in the Hydra is fully developed it shoud allow for more options but for now there aren't too many extra inputs and outputs available.

Thanks,
Phil
Tell me more about map switching ... I haven't seen anything official about that.
Also, does the 2.5 have a better WBo2 sensor? I had read several places about the older versions having up to 1 point errors. I do have a LC-1 so I could always calibrate...
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigga View Post
question.... is the hydra based boost control system still better than a standalone boost controller...such as the Eboost 2? I have the hydra and the eboost 2 already in the car, but not sure if i am going to keep the eboost 2 to control boost on my rotated setup, or ditch it and reconnect the stock boost solenoid and have hydra run that..
I prefer my Turbosmart E-Boost 2 as it allows me the ability to adjust boost settings on the fly while racing. This can be very important if you race on wet tracks or when 600 HP is just too much I can also quickly change boost levels when I'm running the Hydramist or when using race fuel. The solenoid is also much improved and have proven extremely reliable when exposed to extreme heat. So if you need to have access to multiple boost levels without downloading a new map, a stand-alone boost controller may be a better choice.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-06-2006, 02:48 PM   #8
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And also if anyone is looking for an Eboost I have a brand new Eboost2 for sale $380 shipp'd

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1149228
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM-04-STi View Post
And also if anyone is looking for an Eboost I have a brand new Eboost2 for sale $380 shipp'd

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1149228
perfect timing!
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:12 PM   #10
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixlimited View Post
Tell me more about map switching ... I haven't seen anything official about that.
Also, does the 2.5 have a better WBo2 sensor? I had read several places about the older versions having up to 1 point errors. I do have a LC-1 so I could always calibrate...
No the Hydra uses the NTK L2H2 sensor which is one of the most accurate and reliable sensors made. This is superior in my opinion to the typical Bosch sensors used in most aftermarket WB systems. The errors encountered were mostly a result of either improper calibration or the transition into the new software which requires calibration of the "Zero Grad Cal" and the "Wego Grad Cal" which I'm sure means nothing to you at this point

Because of this Element Tuning calibrates the WBs now before the Hydra is shipped to ensure proper calibration.

The Hydra can map switch on the fly which is what we use to switch maps to when using the Hydramist water/methanol injection system. You can read up on it here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1091801

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:25 PM   #11
Nixlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
No the Hydra uses the NTK L2H2 sensor which is one of the most accurate and reliable sensors made. This is superior in my opinion to the typical Bosch sensors used in most aftermarket WB systems. The errors encountered were mostly a result of either improper calibration or the transition into the new software which requires calibration of the "Zero Grad Cal" and the "Wego Grad Cal" which I'm sure means nothing to you at this point

Because of this Element Tuning calibrates the WBs now before the Hydra is shipped to ensure proper calibration.

The Hydra can map switch on the fly which is what we use to switch maps to when using the Hydramist water/methanol injection system. You can read up on it here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1091801

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Great to hear, but I guess my question is, can it switch maps on the fly minus the hydramist? I.e. can I rig a switch somehow?
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixlimited View Post
Tell me more about map switching ... I haven't seen anything official about that.
Also, does the 2.5 have a better WBo2 sensor? I had read several places about the older versions having up to 1 point errors. I do have a LC-1 so I could always calibrate...
As I recall, there was a post or release note somewhere that indicated there was in fact an "issue" with older releases that would cause AFRs to fluctuate from 14.1 to 14.7 with closed loop enabled.

It was a, "So THAT's what I have been trying to figure out for 6 months now." kind of revelation for me when I read it. I have a 2.1 unit. I recently got the firmware update but have not checked to see if it is fixed there. I doubt 2.5 boxes have the issue.

Of course, I cannot currently find the quote/post at hydraems.com.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:03 PM   #13
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixlimited View Post
Great to hear, but I guess my question is, can it switch maps on the fly minus the hydramist? I.e. can I rig a switch somehow?
It's a little more complicated than that but essentially yes you can. You just need the Accessory Harness for $59 and then you can use a switch instead of the Hydramist to activate another MAP.
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Old 12-06-2006, 07:35 PM   #14
Nixlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
It's a little more complicated than that but essentially yes you can. You just need the Accessory Harness for $59 and then you can use a switch instead of the Hydramist to activate another MAP.
Don't get me wrong, I want the Hydramist, but currently law school and being a new home owner owns my finances.

Of course, you may ask, then why are you getting a Hydra. My answer is: ...

I'll get back to you.
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:43 PM   #15
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The errors encountered were mostly a result of either improper calibration or the transition into the new software which requires calibration of the "Zero Grad Cal" and the "Wego Grad Cal" which I'm sure means nothing to you at this point

Because of this Element Tuning calibrates the WBs now before the Hydra is shipped to ensure proper calibration.

Phil,

Does this apply to when i bough my hydra as well? i remember not being able to calibrate the WB sensor due to Hydra changing the model. I never really changed the "ZGC" set it at 128 as you specified and adjusted the WGC to calibrate it.

Orlando
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:53 PM   #16
Element Tuning
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Orlando,

Right after the sensor change is when I started calibrating them. You need to calibrate your sensor as your purchase was before I started. You would see a notation in your "Edit Comments" area if I had calibrated it.

Read my calibration instructions on www.elementtuning.com as it's updated with the latest calibration method.
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM-04-STi View Post
And also if anyone is looking for an Eboost I have a brand new Eboost2 for sale $380 shipp'd

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1149228
Quote:
Originally Posted by jigga View Post
perfect timing!
anytaker's???
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Old 12-08-2006, 02:19 PM   #18
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Orlando,

Right after the sensor change is when I started calibrating them. You need to calibrate your sensor as your purchase was before I started. You would see a notation in your "Edit Comments" area if I had calibrated it.

Read my calibration instructions on www.elementtuning.com as it's updated with the latest calibration method.
Thank You!

Last edited by ocorzo; 12-08-2006 at 02:19 PM. Reason: misspelling
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