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Old 12-06-2006, 04:05 PM   #1
wagonmasta
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Default TD05 16/18/20 Spool Characteristics

i have been doing some reading on this subject for quite a while and havent come upon many helpful results.

i know the TD05 term refers to the compressor housing that the wheel sits in right?.... and know that you can put any of the aformentioned wheels into them. the 7cm^2 and 8cm^2 refers to the hotside housing right?

my question is: if you compare any of the compressor wheels in the TD05 housing with the 7cm^2 hotside housing the spool characteristics are different.... i thought spool was determined by the turbine wheel on the hotside and not determined by the compressor wheel.

do i have my facts all wrong?

thanks

phil
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:08 PM   #2
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On mitsu turbos TD05 refers to the compressor housing but their turbine wheels also use the same names, TD05 for example. Yep it can get confusing.

larger compressor wheels have more mass and require more innertia to spin, thus they take a bit longer to reach the same speeds. We see this as more lag. Also, with all other components being the same, a larger inducer is biting more air per rotation and thus is doing more work. This also causes some additional lag.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by STi Wamper View Post
i have been doing some reading on this subject for quite a while and havent come upon many helpful results.

i know the TD05 term refers to the compressor housing that the wheel sits in right?.... and know that you can put any of the aformentioned wheels into them. the 7cm^2 and 8cm^2 refers to the hotside housing right?

my question is: if you compare any of the compressor wheels in the TD05 housing with the 7cm^2 hotside housing the spool characteristics are different.... i thought spool was determined by the turbine wheel on the hotside and not determined by the compressor wheel.

do i have my facts all wrong?

thanks

phil

the term TD05H, TD06, TD06H is talking about the turbine wheel and the sizes go as they are listed!
they all have the same shaft but different heads and can give measurements if you want!

16G, Big 16G, EVO 3, 18G, 20G, Frank 50, Frank 60 and Frank 35R are reffering to the compressor wheels and side!

7CM, 8CM are reffering to the Turbine housing!

hope that helps
tommy
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:18 PM   #4
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cool thanks!

the difference in spool times shouldnt be that much though with the TD05... as compared to a TD06 turbine wheel ... right?
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:20 PM   #5
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moving from a TD05 to TD06 turbine wheel is a considerable change on a 2.0L yes. However, the difference in spool from a 16G and 20G is a fair bit as well.

Rotational mass makes a big difference, thats why people move to lightweight flywheels and lighter wheels.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:27 PM   #6
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im pretty sure that the TD05 18G is the one for me (i want 300-330 whp with decent spool)

not sure if any of the 16G's would get me there, and the 20G seems like overkill for what i'm looking for
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:56 PM   #7
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I'd go with a TD05H 20g then. I had one on my WRX and it was amazing. 1.45bar by 3,800rpm with a FMIC. Had I known the turbo was going to be that responsive, I would have never bought the EVO3 first.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:02 PM   #8
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I'd go with a TD05H 20g then. I had one on my WRX and it was amazing. 1.45bar by 3,800rpm with a FMIC. Had I known the turbo was going to be that responsive, I would have never bought the EVO3 first.
i REALLY wanna see those logs.

thats like, 21 or so PSI @ 3800rpm... thats when most 18g's come alive. 20g's are typically laggier. hmm. that makes me rethink my plans

(if i could get 20+psi by 4k, i'd run a 20g too!)
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:04 PM   #9
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I'd go with a TD05H 20g then. I had one on my WRX and it was amazing. 1.45bar by 3,800rpm with a FMIC. Had I known the turbo was going to be that responsive, I would have never bought the EVO3 first.
BVM - What kind of numbers were you puting down? (with the evo3 and the 20g)

did you consider the 18G at all, if so... why didnt you choose it?
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:08 PM   #10
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I've seen threads where 20G's get decent dyno numbers, some spool well, others are dogs. But I have yet to see any trap speeds from TD05-20G WRX's, and those real world results are more important than dyno numbers.

On the other hand, there are many trap speed results from 18G's all over NASIOC and they are very promising.

*Edit* At 3800 RPM and 21 psi a 2.0L engine can only flow a bit under 300 CFM(.85 VE). If you look at a compressor map for a 20G, at 2.5 PR the surge limit is around 360 CFM. How were you not surging?

Last edited by WRXShawn; 12-06-2006 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by STi Wamper View Post
BVM - What kind of numbers were you puting down? (with the evo3 and the 20g)

did you consider the 18G at all, if so... why didnt you choose it?
Anyone with a 18g please dont get mad at the following because its my opinion... you can agree or disagree. Its OK I am not going to argue with you.

The step from any of the 16g's to a 18g IMO is silly. The EVO3 flows nearly the same so its not really worth removing one to install a 18g. The only logical step is to go with a TD05 20g.

Below is the only dyno sheet I have with the 20g. You will also note the car was ROAD MAPPED by Richard Bulmer of Tracktive Solutions UK. Richard is the former Managing Director of MOTEC UK. Richard is the man! I was pushing 4.58volts on my MAF with a Hyperflow CAI/3" MAF conversion! Nice!!! The car was tuned very conservatively and had plenty left in it. It pushed 300 WHEEL HP in 5th gear. Hey I argued with Dan at Emerald but with a 4th gear pull on the rollers the car smoked the tires.

The car trapped 110mph in the 1/4 on the first and only time I took it down the strip.

20g dyno (my car put down 142WHP when stock on this dyno)


EVO3 dyno



TD05H EVO316g vrs TDO5H 20g

Last edited by BVM; 12-07-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:03 PM   #12
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That boost onset is wayy too slow for me. I can trap high 11's with 18g.

Last edited by hanzo918; 12-07-2006 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 12-06-2006, 09:42 PM   #13
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11's have been run on 7cm 18G's. Ask CoolRex. Trapped over 120 as well.

But those graphs are of an EVO3 16G and 20G so I'm not sure what you're looking at.

If you want to run 11's easier, get a Green, but I hope you have upgraded gears.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:12 AM   #14
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4.58mafv is nothing lol!
i can pull that much air with my big16g...
a 20g will max out the maf sensor...i'm guessing yours was rescaled.
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
4.58mafv is nothing lol!
i can pull that much air with my big16g...
a 20g will max out the maf sensor...i'm guessing yours was rescaled.

Did you miss the 3" big MAF conversion? Honestly read and understand before you post.
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Old 12-07-2006, 04:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by hanzo918 View Post
That boost onset is wayy too slow for me. I can trap high 11's with 18g.
And I can do that with my stock turbo!
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:11 AM   #17
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11's have been run on 7cm 18G's. Ask CoolRex. Trapped over 120 as well.
.
he's on a greddy 18g i believe might be wrong

greddy=equal all the larger housings
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:19 AM   #18
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Did you miss the 3" big MAF conversion? Honestly read and understand before you post.
Oh Ok, you want me to kiss your ****ing feet retard?
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:21 AM   #19
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he's on a greddy 18g i believe might be wrong

greddy=equal all the larger housings
Nope, Deadbolt 7cm TD05-18G. With internal wastegate. 22psi on 93oct and meth.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:11 PM   #20
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Oh Ok, you want me to kiss your ****ing feet retard?
No but I did send you a copy of "Reading comprehension for dummies"!
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Old 12-07-2006, 01:12 PM   #21
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No but I did send you a copy of "Reading comprehension for dummies"!
Poor guy, we're all very sorry for laughing at u after u posted your power and time with a such a big 20g.
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:14 PM   #22
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Poor guy, we're all very sorry for laughing at u after u posted your power and time with a such a big 20g.
Yes, his time was quite pathetic for a 20G. That turbo is capable of flowing 700cfm. And smoking the tires on the dyno in 4th with that sort of power is B.S.
I think someone had the dyno loaded up with too much resistance.
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:20 PM   #23
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Poor guy, we're all very sorry for laughing at u after u posted your power and time with a such a big 20g.
You act as if I should care what you think. I don't consider my WRX a beast by any means. I don't care about peak power or 1/4 mile times. It was a very mild build/tune. At what point did I claim anything of the sort? Hell there are 16g cars in the USA making more WHP than me... I'll tell you what, I'll let you get caught up in the number chasing game. I just want to have fun and enjoy the car as I see fit. MMMkay?

Hey maybe you can send me some of what you are smoking so I can get a 1500whp '08 STi as well?



Back to the OP, speaking from experience with an APS S/R30/EVO316g/TD05H 20g... I would have bought the 20g from the word go if I had known how happy I would be. Jerry @ Deadbolt and Mike @ Blouch both told me I would be upgrading again soon and they were right. I should have went with a good size turbo from the word go. I would have saved a lot of money. Ultimately the choice is yours and you have to find what works for you.
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:26 PM   #24
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Yes, his time was quite pathetic for a 20G. That turbo is capable of flowing 700cfm. And smoking the tires on the dyno in 4th with that sort of power is B.S.
I think someone had the dyno loaded up with too much resistance.
Umm no its not. Its a TDO5 20g with the 2.4inch inlet. If you figure how to get it from its 640 max CFM rating to 700+ you might want to call FP, Deadbolt and Blouch and sell them the information on how to do it!

As far as the 4th gear tire smoke... I didnt see you there during the dyno day... but there were about 30 members of the Mitsubishi Lancer Registry that did witness it. But hey maybe we were all stoned on that stuff hanzo918 is smoking??

Honestly, if you want to get into a pissing contest, do it via PM and lets not hijack this thread. Like I stated above, if you dont like/agree with what I say, thats fine. I'm not here to try and change your mind.
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:30 PM   #25
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Umm no its not. Its a TDO5 20g with the 2.4inch inlet. If you figure how to get it from its 640 max CFM rating to 700+ you might want to call FP, Deadbolt and Blouch and sell them the information on how to do it!

As far as the 4th gear tire smoke... I didnt see you there during the dyno day... but there were about 30 members of the Mitsubishi Lancer Registry that did witness it. But hey maybe we were all stoned on that stuff hanzo918 is smoking??

Honestly, if you want to get into a pissing contest, do it via PM and lets not hijack this thread. Like I stated above, if you dont like/agree with what I say, thats fine. I'm not here to try and change your mind.
Hey kiddo, don't get ur panties in a bunch. All we're trying to point out is that your logic of "no point in the 18g" is entirely incorrect as it's one of the most suitable turbos for the wrx 2.0L. And I'm very sorry u don't like mai super duper 2008 STI in mai profile.
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