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12-14-2006, 03:43 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
New Car, Hydra, and a few issues.
So I just purchased this built STi, and of course a problem presented itself immediately.
I have a GT35R STi that I just purchased from a guy named Chuck in Illinois. Phil I believe we briefly exchanged some information via email about the car close to a month ago, it was concerning your base maps (specifically the base map installed on the car, which is supposedly a race map.) As of now, when the car left the seller's house he told me it ran perfectly, and giving him the benefit of the doubt, I am now asking advice. The car will be seeing my tuner, Ed@Eqtuning as soon as possible, but I just wanted to be sure that I have as much information for Ed as possible. Here are the details of what is wrong from driving the car for a few miles. First and foremost, the car is very difficult to start, and has a very slow cranking rate compared to my other 05 STi. It does have twin Walboro fuel pumps, so that may be draining cranking power from the battery. So, after it "barley" starts, its idle is very inconsistent, jumping right to about 1,600 rpm dropping to 500 and repeating this cycle until it warms up, then it sticks between 1000-1200. Symptoms: The car below boost with partial throttle is bucking and hesitating with a lot of backfire, and the blow-off valve is venting sporadically, even under acceleration. There is truly a LOT going on at this point, and I am a bit intimidated as it is making more damn noises with that external wastegate and HKS SSQ The mods as described from the seller, but I have no way to confirm the headwork or block...I just hope =) Axis Racing Stage 3 Short Block - 2.5 L STi Semi-Closed Deck Shortblock - Standard Sleeve Liners - Modified Axis Racing Forged Crankshaft - Polished & Balanced to 10,000 RPMS - Pauter 4340 Chrome-Moly Forged Rods - Axis Racing/ CP Forged Pistons - Recommended Max Revolution 8,000 - ARP Head Studs - Cometic Gaskets Axis Racing Stage 1 Valve Train Kit - Ported and Polished - DPR Stage 3 AVCS Cams - Single Spring Valve springs - Titanium Retainers - New Buckets - New Shims (Shim Under Bucket Design) - New Keepers - Oversize Racing Valves : 1/2 mm oversize - Recommended Max Revolution 8,500 Turbo Upgrade and Supporting Modifications: - Kingpin GT35r .82 Turbo Kit - Up Pipe - Down Pipe - Tial 44mm Externally Vented Wastegate - HKS Super Sequential Blow-Off-Valve - Perrin Front Mount Intercooler - Perrin Catch Can - Perrin 3" Exhaust Fuel Delivery System: - Ultimate Racing 1000cc Injectors - Ultimate Racing Fuel Rails - Dual 255lph Walboro Fuel Pumps and Lines Drivetrain: - Cusco Twin Disc Clutch Electronics and Engine Management: - Hydra Nemesis Standalone ECU - Defi BF Series Gauges -Boost -Oil Temperature -Exhaust Gas Temperature - Defi VSD Heads Up Display - AEM UEGO Wideband Gauge Once I slowly climbs the revs to about 4,500rpm's staying out of boost, the bucking and hesitation seems to go away when I gave it about 1/2 throttle. Well, the car was scary fast, but it was reading past 2.0 Bar! I know Chuck said that he had a race gas base map from you, but wouldn't 29+ psi be a little much for any base map? It has 110 leaded but I really hope I didn't do any damage, I am just very frustrated right now. Could it be that something corrupted the flash, he's got all sorts of stereo wires that are hanging all over the damn place, its like he ripped out anything worth keeping and left the rest in shambles, the car didn't even come with the front speakers installed! I posted in this forum because I feel like it is an ECU issue, possibly the car is in limp mode? Although I am searching for any mechanical issues I must admit that I do have little experience with all this equipment.
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Last edited by Shaved; 12-14-2006 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Spelling |
12-14-2006, 04:04 PM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
You can see pictures of the (ugly) engine bay here: http://woodiesandwheels.com/id19.html
It is my buddies website and he likes to exagerate things a little for the older folk who visit his site, so nevermind the "claimed" horsepower levels I tried to tell him its not making any claimed power yet, . |
12-14-2006, 09:48 PM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 113734
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston SC
Vehicle:2023 FL5 Type R Subaruless |
Thank god you took off that UGLY!!!!!!!!!! RICER!!!! CRAP!!!!!!!! had to be one the UGLIEST STi's out there
Does sound like a map issue |
12-14-2006, 10:15 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
Quote:
It took a combined 16 hours to get all that **** off of there, and there is still a good number of hours left with all the freakin resin left on the paint! It came with a number of surprises, including my favortie, full on NEONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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12-15-2006, 10:51 AM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8512
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: St. Pete, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX chassis... stage-infinity.com |
Yikes, man. That's quite a leap of faith you took there.
* There's nothing wrong with the idle spiking up initially to 1600RPM. That's legit. * Assuming you have a Hydra 2.1 unit, there's nothing wrong with the long cranking time. This is how the 2.1 unit works. The 2.5 unit solves this. There is no upgrade path if you want to fix it (again, assuming you have the 2.1 unit) other than selling yours and buying a whole new 2.5 unit. There are so many possible reasons for the other problems that I won't even begin to speculate. Just drop the car off and let someone professional go over the whole thing with a fine-toothed comb and clean up the mess. |
12-15-2006, 02:24 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
Quote:
Yes, I did take a leap of faith, albeit with some reassurance from Phil @ Element Tuning when we discussed his maps and how versatile and conservative they are... The original owner never had the car tuned, that was always a red flag with me, but like I said, Phil confirmed that he had only given this guy base maps and that they were legit for use on this particular car...I am guessing he knows a little more about tuning than me. |
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12-15-2006, 02:39 PM | #7 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8512
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: St. Pete, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX chassis... stage-infinity.com |
The leap of faith I mentioned wasn't regarding Phil, the Hydra, nor the tune... it was regarding purchasing a high-end STI from someone who had stickered the hell out of it.
Cranking is cranking. Sure, the starter's doing that. Starting the car involves much more than cranking, and until it turns over... all you're gonna do is crank. The issue (if you have a 2.1 box) is that the fuel injection is sequential. Not only that, but I believe the 2.1 boxes also would wait to see a proper/full crank signal before allowing the ignition to fire. You don't start a car without fuel, spark, and something helping turn the engine (starter) If your car takes longer than 3 seconds of cranking to start, it's a different issue. |
12-15-2006, 02:59 PM | #8 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
Quote:
It seems to take longer than 3 seconds to fire up, definitely, but I will look at it closer when I have a chance next week. Finals are closing in on me! And yes, the leap of faith was taken to the next level buying this car with that vinyl, at the time, it was really what seemed like the only complete STi that had any major modifications. |
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12-15-2006, 06:25 PM | #9 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
An engine such as that absolutely needs to be custom tuned. Base maps are for cars without ported heads and cams that aggressive but none the less the base map was the correct base map. This does not however mean it will run well, just run Ported heads, cams, and custom short blocks should be considered finicky race engines that will never ever run on a base map well.
I've just been too busy to schedule any new trips but this car was supposed to be tuned by me in Ohio and it really still needs to be. Tuning such a car is not an easy task and even more difficult to someone not very well experienced with tuning the Hydra EMS. I have concerns with your cam and head package in regards to valve to piston clearance with AVCS. I suggest you unplug the AVCS solenoids to see if the hesitation goes away. Some DPR cams have built in advance along the lines of +4 degrees which means when AVCS is fully advanced you see +19 degrees which is a lot. With bigger valves, possibly tighter head clearance with aftermarket pistons, rods, and 2.0 heads vs. 2.5 heads leaves a lot of questions unanswered. What you should not be in fear of is the car not running properly if you get it tuned by someone such as myself. I don't know where you live but I may have a tune scheduled already in your part of the world. A car like this really needs substantial tuning so if I can't do it for you make sure you do your homework and select a tuner with a great reputation for tuning the impossible as this is what you have. Contact me next week as I'm out of the country and I can at least give you some guidance. Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
12-15-2006, 11:01 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 86730
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:2005 STi 460 WHP @ 28 PSI |
Quote:
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12-16-2006, 02:25 AM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 9960
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: in bed...
Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX WRBlue Perl |
i wonder whether Ron at axis puts some kind of serial number on the blocks so that one can tell what it is supposed to be?
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12-17-2006, 10:42 AM | #12 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
Quote:
I'm actually going to be in TX in January to tune. If you don't have confidence in your tuner then you may want to see if there are any spots available but I only have time for 6 on this trip. There should be a post up in your local forum. Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
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12-17-2006, 10:51 AM | #13 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
Quote:
Thanks, Phil www.elementtuning.com |
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12-17-2006, 01:31 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
Quote:
I must say starting this car is no easy feat (6-8 second turnover, and it needs to be primed and restarted at least twice) but, with that said it drives nicely out of boost and idles very well considering it is a base map, sure hope it has got those cams? Anyway, I think I just made a mistake by ordering a hydramist from Kingpin, I just saw some huge thread about their customer service and wanted to know if they even distribute the Hydramist? I needed the 4" inlet for their kit as the car came with the pathetic 3", and I asked if they carried the Hydramist and they said yes, no problem. Just curious if they carry it, so I know if I am getting scammed. Mark |
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12-17-2006, 04:47 PM | #15 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 86730
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:2005 STi 460 WHP @ 28 PSI |
Quote:
Anyway, I wish I had known you were coming, but I have already committed to a shop to install and tune and I want to give them their shot. If for some reason that doesn't work out, I will catch you on your next trip. Thanks- |
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12-18-2006, 08:18 AM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 11926
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Allen, Tx
Vehicle:2011 Outback Limited Dark Grey |
Noo noone can tune like Phil. There isn't a shop in Texas that can tune the hydra as well. We just don't have the talent here .This is exactly why I am flying Phil in . I have a similar setups as the OP and there is no way i'd let anyone here tune me. I wouldn'd even be comfortable with PDX. PM me if you change your mind.
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12-18-2006, 10:26 AM | #17 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 113734
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston SC
Vehicle:2023 FL5 Type R Subaruless |
Quote:
+123456 for Phil and if you don't, you might as well put those nasty stickers on your car Last edited by THE-95-STi; 12-18-2006 at 10:32 AM. |
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12-18-2006, 11:20 AM | #18 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Vehicle:673 WHP Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine |
Quote:
Thanks, Phil Grabow Element Tuning (240)246.0302 http://www.elementtuning.com Last edited by Element Tuning; 12-18-2006 at 03:12 PM. |
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12-18-2006, 12:15 PM | #19 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 80034
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UC Berkeley, CA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
Quote:
Hey! I am pissed you didn't get the photo of me meditating to the vinyl gods, chanting the mantra "please let this **** come off quickly with no hassle." ...Well...they weren't listening that night! bastards |
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12-18-2006, 08:02 PM | #20 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 86730
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:2005 STi 460 WHP @ 28 PSI |
Quote:
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12-18-2006, 09:37 PM | #21 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 11926
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Allen, Tx
Vehicle:2011 Outback Limited Dark Grey |
I am the coordinator for Phils visit to Texas . My name is Jake .Phil will be in Dallas on Jan 19,20,21 PM me for any other questions. I have a full list but I have 2 people I think might not show up ,so if you are really interested the the deposit is $71 .I will be posting a deadline for deposits to be submitted by Jan 1st. IF you decide to join us just keep an eye out and let me know you want in and I'll try and get you a spot. You need a tune as bad as I do.We have very similar setups.I know how much is invested in your motor and Phil is the hands you want to trust to get the best out of it.
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12-18-2006, 10:09 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 86730
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Austin, TX
Vehicle:2005 STi 460 WHP @ 28 PSI |
Quote:
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