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Old 12-20-2006, 08:16 PM   #1
Aquamist
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Default Aquamist needs your advice...

When I typed in "aquamist" on google search, a sponsored link comes up.

I clicked on the link that says:

Water injection-Aquamist, Snow performance's European dealer appears.

I delved deeper into the contents by click "view source". Not only did they put in Aquamist System on their Meta header, they also put in Aquamist erl !!!

Do you think they have a right to do this? Any comments are welcomed
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:30 PM   #2
traction issuez
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people been doing that on internet forever though, just like ebay. when you search for a turbo car it shows "NOT TURBO" so it'll ring up when u search the word TURBO.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:54 PM   #3
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ouch.. kinda crafty if you ask me... But i do think however that those looking into such systems will have an idea as to what the real deal Aquamist is, and what the offerings of other companies are.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:23 PM   #4
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we could hunt them down and kill them.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:27 PM   #5
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You need to seek the advice of a UK based attorney for possible trademark infringement. Is your mark protected? If not, you need to get that done...quick answer from an attorney friend of mine.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:57 AM   #6
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I have written to Mr Bodo Shuermann (German Snow Performance dealer) as follows...

Hello Bodo,

I would be grateful if you could remove the "aquamist" header tag on your website. I have had many people complaining to me that when they type in Aquamist on Google, it shows up a www.snowperformance.de link as "Water injection-Aquamist".

Is this an un-intentional mistake?

Regards

Richard
richard@aquamist.co.uk
www.aquamist.co.uk

ERL Ltd
Iroko house
Bolney Avenue
Peacehaven
East Sussex
BN10 8HF
England
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilverSTi View Post
You need to seek the advice of a UK based attorney for possible trademark infringement. Is your mark protected? If not, you need to get that done...quick answer from an attorney friend of mine.
Your friend is correct. If the name is not protected, there is nothing you can do beyond kindly asking them to remove it from their page. If that is the case be sure to go start the trademark process.
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:35 AM   #8
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Default I got a reply...

He Wrote: (notice the signatures he uses to sign off below)

Hello Richard,

nearly ALL waterinjection manufacturer/dealers uses "Aquamist" as Website tag or as description/synonym for a WI-system. It´s grown to a usual synonym for WI-systems and furthermore irrigation systems (aquamist.net)

---
It doesn´t matter where you look - here for example:

www.turbocooler.de (other manufacuturer)
www.boostshop.de (german coolingmist distributor)

Either "aquamist" in tag and/or as Headline/Description. Especially
german speaking people mostly known "aquamist" as an synonym for a waterinjection system - not an ERL-product or any trademark.

coolingmist.com or snowperformance.net uses Google Adwords as well with the keyword "aquamist"


Besides, we´ve much more problems with competitors, such as:

www.snow-performance.de (its the same as turbocooler.de who offers a
copycat-system of the boost cooler - with an interesting market analysis.
The "Turbocooler" system with the Boost Cooler and the ERL Aquamist. - Of course, if you read that (unfortunately only in german), you are thinking that the "Turbocooler"-System is the best of course.

-- Or for example systems called "Basic Cooler 2" instead of our "Boost Cooler 2" etc pp. - with completely snitched functional description, FAQ and even nearly our complete installation instruction. But there´s like no way to take legal steps without high costs and risks.

I was at a lawyer/patent agent last month and it was frustrating. Besides, "Aquamist" is not international brand-protected - its nearly impossible, because in different countries "aquamist" is protected for different products (it can be only international/EU-wide protected if nobody already protected a brand nationally). Here in germany for example,"aquamist" is brand-protected for a fire extinguisher company for about 15 years. (A few years ago I asked them if it´s okay to use the descriptively word "aquamist"

in conjunction with the Boost Cooler Systems.

BTW Nowadays it´s impossible here to brandmark such a word, because it counts as a descriptively term.

BTW2: I spent about 25T€ since the last 3 years for Google Adwords and Overture, make a lot of educational work about waterinjection systems and make it *really* public in ger/at/ch. Many many german forum-entries looks like "I read casually about WI-systems on turbotuning.net, did you ever heard of that? And mostly comes answers from an old stager like:
"yes, (....) but take systems like ERL Aquamist or Boost Cooler... (...)".

In the beginning, the most people never heard of WI, each 2nd sceptical inquiry looks like "does me engine begins to rust? or whats about hydro-lock?"

I think that the complete german speaking market participated from that advertising campaigns. Before it seems to me that WI-Systems were a very specialized product with a relatively small interested range of customers (at least in ger/at/ch). I think thats why here in germany exists 5 (!) different supplier for WI-Systems (I avoid the the word Aquamist-systems
))

- Improbably that you´ve lost turnover the last 2-3+ years (in german speaking countries) - quite the reverse? ;-)

I hope my englisch was not sooo bad. It was really hard to write and I could write more but now I was sit about 1hour for that email, because often I had to look for a translation. Hope you understand my email in that case I wanted to mediate.

Best regards and happy Christmas to you and your family,

Bodo

TTNET - Snow Performance Europe
Boost Cooler Aquamist-Systems
Elbring 45, 21217 Seevetal
T: +49-(0)40 – 3999 2118
F: +49-(0)40 – 3999 2119

info@turbotuning.net
www.turbotuning.net
www.snowperformance.de



Last edited by Aquamist; 12-22-2006 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 12-21-2006, 02:24 PM   #9
poormansporsche
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My pops has this problem with Auto Insulation dealers using "acoustishield". Supposedly it's not legal. He's had some luck, tho i think he had to pursue legal action a few times. He owns the trademark for it. I assume you own the trademark/copyright on Aquamist.

So far Monster Cable® has taken legal action against:
Monster Vintage (a clothing store)
Monster Ski instruction
Disney Entertainment (Monsters Inc.)
and many other Monster Somethings

I'm sure there is a case here in your favor. Good luck.

cheers

garrett
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Old 12-22-2006, 09:51 AM   #10
djerickd
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We all know the REAL Aquamist
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Old 12-22-2006, 10:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poormansporsche View Post
My pops has this problem with Auto Insulation dealers using "acoustishield". Supposedly it's not legal. He's had some luck, tho i think he had to pursue legal action a few times. He owns the trademark for it. I assume you own the trademark/copyright on Aquamist.

So far Monster Cable® has taken legal action against:
Monster Vintage (a clothing store)
Monster Ski instruction
Disney Entertainment (Monsters Inc.)
and many other Monster Somethings

I'm sure there is a case here in your favor. Good luck.

cheers

garrett
It is unfortunate that I do not hold a trademark for aquamist.
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Old 12-22-2006, 10:34 AM   #12
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djerickd View Post
We all know the REAL Aquamist
It is such a shame, what drives anyone to use such tactics.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:43 PM   #13
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my solution would be to find a more complex name

Aqua = water
mist = vaporated fluid

no wonder why eveyrone use this as product description, explaining the response you got from another manufacturer.

I wouldn't start a shop building silencers, and calling my products "quiet muffler" then feel surprised every exhaust manufacturers use there terms to describe their products

In my area, 9 out of 10 people call a snowmobile a "ski-doo" and a refrigerator a "frigidaire" . those brandname are probably protected so others manufacturers can't use these name to describe or promote their products, but it's an easy won fight because at first, the name is not "explicit"
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:23 PM   #14
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Well look on the bright side, Aquamist is a household name now like:

AstroTurf
Baggies
Band-Aid
Beer Nuts
Breathalyzer
Brillo Pads
Coke
Dacron
Dumpster
Frisbee
Hi-Liter
Hula-Hoop
Jacuzzi
Jeep
Jell-O
Jockey Shorts
Kitty Litter
Kleenex
Laundromat
Liquid Paper
Magic Marker
Muzak
Novocain
Ping-Pong
Play-Doh
Popsicle
Post-it Note
Q-Tip
Realtor
Rollerblade
Scotch Tape
Scrabble
Seeing Eye (dog)
Sheetrock
Slim Jim
Styrofoam
Super glue
Technicolor
Teflon
TelePrompTer
Vaseline
Velcro
XEROX
Walkman
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:40 PM   #15
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicEJ25 View Post
my solution would be to find a more complex name

Aqua = water
mist = vaporated fluid

no wonder why eveyrone use this as product description, explaining the response you got from another manufacturer.

I wouldn't start a shop building silencers, and calling my products "quiet muffler" then feel surprised every exhaust manufacturers use there terms to describe their products

In my area, 9 out of 10 people call a snowmobile a "ski-doo" and a refrigerator a "frigidaire" . those brandname are probably protected so others manufacturers can't use these name to describe or promote their products, but it's an easy won fight because at first, the name is not "explicit"
OK, I shall change Aquamist to "watervapourfluid", get it trademarked and start promoting it for the next 15 years, That is how long it took us to get the Aquamist name known.

I think we will just stick with the original name and put up with the unsavory traders such as "snowperformance.de"

Last edited by Aquamist; 12-22-2006 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 03:48 PM   #16
jblaine
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Well, I'll tell you this. I'll be sure to check from now on and you can be sure I won't be buying anything from companies playing games like this.

"Aquamist" as a general term is bull crap. Anyone describing it as such is a snake.

"Water injection" sure.

You'll note that "Boost Cooler" is trademarked. You should have trademarked Aquamist long ago.
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:58 PM   #17
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If I have a crystal ball 15 years ago, I would have trademarked it. Too late now - only ourselves to blame.

Water injection is a niche market product, I would never have imaged there are over fifteen companies here to date, selling the concept.

To be honest, we are no threat (in business terms) to any one of the companies listed on the "who what...." sticky thread. We are not competitive due to the strong pound, why are we been targeted?

We just like to be left alone and get on making our Aquamist products to those few who enjoys to use it.

Last edited by Aquamist; 12-22-2006 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:46 PM   #18
jaxscuby
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well not to do what they did you.
but how about giving them their own
medicine in return?

or find a unique spelling for aquamist..
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Old 12-22-2006, 07:29 PM   #19
Unabomber
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You are #1 on google for Aquamist and water injection, so be happy! Now get your webmaster cracking to get you #1 spots for methanol injection, alcohol injection, etc. Search engine optimization is not hard or time consuming, but it brings in a TON of visitors to your site. My wife's lowly wallpaper site has probably 100 #1 google hits thanks to me, a little knowledge, and a little time. I could pass along some tips if your webmaster needs them.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:47 PM   #20
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Yeah I found the entire first 2 pages referencing your product when I searched for Aquamist on google. So it doesn't appear to be tooooo out of control yet.

cheers

garrett
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Old 12-23-2006, 09:16 AM   #21
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Unabomber,

Thank for your advice, I will keep working on the other keywords.

If you type in anyone of these names: Coolingmist, Snow performance etc on Google, they all hit #1 spot. Aquamist/aquamist sponsored link never comes up. But when you Google search Aquamist - every tom, dick and harry seemed to want a piece of our flash.

But when a sponsored link comes up as the one below:
(please click on it)

Water Injection-Aquamist

You will immediately notice why.
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Old 12-23-2006, 10:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
It is unfortunate that I do not hold a trademark for aquamist.
You should consider consulting with a lawyer -- in certain countries (e.g., US if memory serves) users of an unregistered trademark have certain rights. I'm not a trademark lawyer but you may want to consider investing an an hour of consult time with a UK attorney.
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Old 12-26-2006, 03:53 PM   #23
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You could always spin it this way...
Aquamist, the name by which ALL others are Judged.

I just got mine installed and I would not have considered any other source for my newly built engine. You guys ROCK!
Hang in there buddy!
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
You are #1 on google for Aquamist and water injection, so be happy! Now get your webmaster cracking to get you #1 spots for methanol injection, alcohol injection, etc. Search engine optimization is not hard or time consuming, but it brings in a TON of visitors to your site. My wife's lowly wallpaper site has probably 100 #1 google hits thanks to me, a little knowledge, and a little time. I could pass along some tips if your webmaster needs them.
Ron,
perhaps some explanation and advice on the differences between the standard hit returns, where Aquamist is doing well, versus the sponsored links?.....where Snow and Coolingmist appear.
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
Unabomber,

Thank for your advice, I will keep working on the other keywords.

If you type in anyone of these names: Coolingmist, Snow performance etc on Google, they all hit #1 spot. Aquamist/aquamist sponsored link never comes up. But when you Google search Aquamist - every tom, dick and harry seemed to want a piece of our flash.

But when a sponsored link comes up as the one below:
(please click on it)

Water Injection-Aquamist

You will immediately notice why.
Richard,
You do see what they're doing, right? They've got the page literally filled with text that they want to return as hits. Then they set the text color to exactly match the background, border, or menu color, thereby rendering it "invisible" while one is normally viewing the page. If you select the whole page, i.e. run your mouse cursor over it as if you are going to select it for printing, etc, you'll see the text show up as it is highlighted.
You can do this same exact sort of thing to your own web pages. As a matter of fact you can make the page taller and add about a gazilliion lines of text where you repeat the word or words of your choice.....such as "Aquamist" to create the same sort of returns.

Another option you might think of is to trademark your logo as a special logo....something such as "Aquamist - by Aquamist".....or "Aquamist - by Richard L"....or even trademark it with an exclamation point or something, such as "Aquamist!" ......you get the idea.
I'd definately seek the advice of a trademark attourney though. I don't think the idea of "Aquamist" as a general market term is correct. As is posted above, I could see "water injection", or "alcohol injection", etc, as general terms. But not "Aquamist".

"Perrin's new alk/water injection system - by Aquamist! (Aquamist! is a registered trademark of Richard L)

That sounds better.

Don't let this slide. You have been very instrumental in bringing novel approaches to the market under the name "Aquamist". Defend it.
Just my opinion.
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