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Old 11-20-2001, 07:30 PM   #1
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Default (NEW INFO) The dealer pulled this code today.......help

Hi all,

I need some direction on the caode the dealer pulled from my car today.
I had thought it would be a o2 sensor or knock sensor.

The code is PO 170

They said that an exhaust leak right at the front of my muffler was causing a "run lean" condition.....

Could someone PLEASE give me some insight on this and lemme know if this is as much crap as i think it is....

Thank you in advance,
Peas,
AaRoN
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Last edited by Aaron'z 2.5RS; 11-21-2001 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 11-20-2001, 08:52 PM   #2
DustinR
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I don't know anything about he code but i have an obd2 tool that u can use if you want it. Just let me know if you do cause i have to run some stuff up to lee anyway.

-Dustin
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Old 11-20-2001, 09:07 PM   #3
North Ursalia
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I encourage you to ask them how an exhaust leak at the front of the muffler can make your front oxygen sensor go wonky . P0170 is a fuel trim malfunction code, and fuel trim is managed by the ECU through, among other things, the oxygen sensors. P0170 relates to O2 sensor bank one, which IIRC is the front O2 sensor on the Impreza.

Brian
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Old 11-20-2001, 09:17 PM   #4
SubyTechMaster
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PO 170 Fuel trim malfunction
Two consecutive driving cycles with fault
Symptom: Erroneus idleing, Engine stalls, poor driving performance

According to the Trouble Shooting flow chart;

Check Exhaust system for leaks (SM does not specify but I would presume this refers to up-stream of the rear Catalytic Convertor)
Check Air Intake system for leaks
Check Fuel Pressure
Check ECT
Check Mass A/F sensor
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Old 11-20-2001, 09:30 PM   #5
DustinR
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Where do you guys pull that info from?? Sounds like a handy reference to have around.

-dustin
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Old 11-20-2001, 10:33 PM   #6
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Default

Thanks guyz

Dustin.....That would be VERY cool, if i could borrow that. Thats just a cable right?? What about software?? Lee said we could just download it from the net right??

Brian....Thanks for the info, I had a feeling it was the o2 sensor/s, I even told them to check for a leak PRE-cat...i had already known about the leak in front of the muffler. It's always been there and it simply dosen't make sense that a small leak RIGHT in front of a muffler with a 2.5" inlet and 2-3" outlets could cause any problems. A lot more pressure is going out of the muffler than could possibily go out the leak. (path of least resistance)
In that respect, i could pull the muffler off completely and really not change anything as far as the o2 sensers are conserned right???

So it sounds like there trying to take the EASY way out and blaming it in a leak that really has no corralation to the actual problem.?!

SubyTechMaster....Thank you too, for the info. Also what is your opinion on the matter.??


They also mentioned a "run lean" condition, could this be caused by the changing of the midpipe from stock 1 3/4" to 2 1/4" and putting on the free flow muff..??? I also get A LOT of soot comming out of the muffler, that suggests a "run rich" condition to me. Am i wrong..??

I've been trying to sort this out for a LONG time, the dealer (not here but in Buffalo) had tried to blame mu exhaust system for my hesitation problems as well....So any extra info any of ya'll could give would be GREAT....

Thanks again guyz....I donno what i would do without the board...
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Old 11-20-2001, 11:05 PM   #7
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Yeah ya do!

You`d trade the clapt out peice of junk
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Old 11-21-2001, 12:05 AM   #8
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Har har hardy har har
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Old 11-21-2001, 12:11 AM   #9
Wheels
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Hey if ya want me in the car when its moving I`m driving! No if's buts about it. I love my son and I plan to see him os often as poss. And not from a coffin either.

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Old 11-21-2001, 01:02 AM   #10
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Lee.......what the #%&* are you talking about..??

Throw me a bone here.....
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Old 11-21-2001, 03:24 AM   #11
HndaTch627
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well the only P0170/P0171's i see are caused by bad FPR's....an exhaust leak at the muffler?? they are full of it....are you still within warranty??

jeremy
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Old 11-21-2001, 03:51 AM   #12
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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YEP..........57K
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Old 11-21-2001, 03:59 AM   #13
HndaTch627
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yuck...hmm....start with the most likely...check to see if hte FPR is changing fuel pressure at all or staying the same...that'll give ya some kind of an idea.

Jeremy
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Old 11-21-2001, 04:00 AM   #14
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cough cough, Umm Burlington Subaru, Cough cough. Hehehehe people wonder how I get band from dealerships. Hehehe I have no tact. I come out and say how I feel. And Burlington subaru are a bunch of monkeys. All they know to do is to wipe a sponge over the body of a car. AND THEY CAN'T DO THAT (without missing bits). Take a look at ya bumper when you go out looks like you have been ploughing snow on the way to work.

Bet it was ya most expensive car wash!!!

60/hr.
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Old 11-21-2001, 04:07 AM   #15
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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This is true......but my car was REALLY dirty
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Old 11-21-2001, 04:15 AM   #16
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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But now that you mention it.....it's still dirty.....they SUCK
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Old 11-21-2001, 11:49 PM   #17
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Default

Called the service manager today with this info, talked to him AND the tech who work on the car via speakerphone.

Without going in to alot of detail (that i can't remember from being up for 20hrs)

They said that with my car NOT being stock (K&N and the exhaust) the car is running LEAN and they CAN'T diagnose the problem correctly. They also told me that if is a o2 sensor that i'll have to pay for it, cause the emmisions warr. is out (3/36) the cat and the ECU are covered till 6/60 i think, so either way it looks like i'm gonna be paying money i DON'T have.

On a better note: I must thank DustinR cause he'z gonna trade me his stock exhaust for mine, (for the time being) and i think he's got a stock air filter not being used due to his COBB......so Kudos to Dustin...

Question to all. If i'm running LEAN like they say i am, would that explane the BAD soot comming out of my muffler....??

Thanks to all.....

And PLEASE keep the info comming..

Peas,
AaRoN
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Old 11-22-2001, 03:21 AM   #18
HndaTch627
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well i don't think the dealer is doing what they really can for you and soot my friend is a sign of running RICH not lean. I bet you could almost do the diagnosis yourself.

Jeremy
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Old 11-22-2001, 02:11 PM   #19
LVSUBARU
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I thought intakes and exaust upgrades makes you alittle rich. Anyway, I'd be checking your MAF sensor. I work for Mercedes, and a PO170=bad MAF sensor for a Benz!
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Old 11-22-2001, 04:20 PM   #20
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How bout some freeze frame data!!

whats your fuel trims look like, I would like to see all the freeze frame data! It would help alot.

soot = rich, dealer = bunch of smackheads.

Jay McDade
Auto Tech--Linocln/Mercury/Jaguar - soon to be Subaru
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Old 11-22-2001, 04:53 PM   #21
HndaTch627
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yeah mc dade i think this dealer is smoking crack...but if he runs WOT alot that would explain the black soot....ther A/F ratio on stock RS's approches 9:1 near redline...talk about a power killer

Jeremy
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Old 11-22-2001, 05:59 PM   #22
munkis
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good point jeremy! are you like WOT hehe

still want to see some freeze frame data!

Jay
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Old 11-22-2001, 07:37 PM   #23
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Hay guyz,

Thanks for the interest in my problem..!!

Dustinr, is going to nice enough to let me borrow his cable and laptop, so i'll be able to get some freez frame data for ya'll soon i hope.


I have had nothing but BAD luck with subaru dealers. They almost remind me of *cough*VW*cough* Totaly clueless and would rather blame a mod for problem rather than fixing them.

Any way, i should get some data for you all soon.

Thanks!!!

AaRoN
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Old 11-22-2001, 09:39 PM   #24
HndaTch627
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aaron i hate to say it but i will i agree with you. Now i NEVER see complaints like this working for honda except geniouses with civic ex's and headers that have either a slow primary O2 response or i have no low end power...well DUH you have an AEM intake and HEader with a full catback...GOODBYE low end. WEll anyhow, i really think they need to do some investigating. I would conact the BBB and let them know your problem, they can be VERY helpful and do have quite a bit of swing in certain areas.

Jeremy
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