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Old 11-21-2001, 09:42 AM   #1
bmw_in_a_subaru
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Thumbs down Aem Wrx Cai

From my post on SubaruReview.com:

From Godspeed Inc, Detroit, MI

$240.00

Looks nice, ease of installation (1 hour), GREAT instructions with pictures, nice sounding.

Hindered performance/no improvement in performance (measured using G-tech tool not a "butt-o-meter"). HP: Approx. 3hp loss. 0-60: lost .15/sec. (Even after doing a "reset" of the ECU).

Looks great, frees up room in the engine compartment. HOWEVER...had high hopes for improvement. Can't measure if higher gear's are affected (will try 1/4 mi. test soon). May go back to stock...more concerned about performance not looks/sound.

Perhaps with a new Unichip the unit would be more effective?
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Old 11-26-2001, 09:11 AM   #2
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Unhappy Huh That sucks

I was just about to order this. Has anyone else experiecned these problems? Is there a better solution out there?
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Old 11-26-2001, 12:11 PM   #3
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sorry to hear about the AEM...you'd think with the "reputation" they have they wouldn't try to pull this kind of stuff, but...

the secret to not losing low end power is keeping the stock airbox.

remove the silencer in the fender, put a K&N or amsoil panel filter in, and remove the rubber gasket that seals the airbox to the silencer pipe, then use some foam tape to seal the airbox to the fender well.

cost = 2 hours of work (tops), and whatever the new filter costs...

you get maybe half the hp you would from a "real" CAI, but no loss of torque either...plus it sounds nice, and you get slightly better gas mileage.

just my .02

-adam-
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Old 12-02-2001, 07:52 PM   #4
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umm... just so you know... I had a G-Tech... It's a Liar. Filthy Liar.

Good if you want to know a close estimate of what you times are, however, if your trying to test&tune with it, you are already taking too much of what it says for true.

It's kind of like a radar detector in that manner, you can't rely on it too much, or your just asking for trouble.

I've seen them used all too often for testing & tuning. It's almost as accurate as having your friend sit in the passenger seat with a stopwatch, seriously. Magazines that test with this are either-poor, dumb, or not looking to be exact. I think your putting too much faith in this $100 gizmo.

I don't mean to sound rough, but where I come from, nobody believes those G-Tech Pro times. I've seen automatic cars, using the same exact launch method over and over, pull a completely different time every run no matter how many attempts they made.
Though they were occasionaly close (within a tenth sometimes), the times were never close enough to convince me to call this machine accurate. I always was a little surprised with the answer I got.

I've been seeing alot of people making claims about their cars speed based on a G-Tech's readout, sadfully these are probably all wrong.

remember-it goes both ways too, meaning that it's not always saying your as fast as you really are.

For the people using one = Remember what your parents said; Don't believe eveything you hear, and don't fight with your friends over toys.
They apply here too.

My 1 cent,
Evan J. Kelly
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Old 12-03-2001, 01:58 PM   #5
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Post Methodology of Testing using G-tech

Hey Evan,

Perhaps this would make an interesting thread in itself? I've spoken to Ultimate Performance in Clinton Twp (a shop who does run dynometer tests)....and he did agree that the G-tech is fairly reliable. Also, I'd have to concur with the multitude of other professional publications out there. Anyhow...back to your post.

What you feel may indeed be true...partially though.

I agree that the numbers the G-tech system reports probably aren't 100% reliable. However I do feel there is value in using the device to measure improvement.


For those who want to buy such a device and use it to "tune"...I'd have to say it's a fairly good investment if you're looking at measuring improvement. Key word there...improvement.

Per the testing of before vs. after the AEM modification I saw a decrease in "productivity" of my engine with the AEM installed. So, with that said (following basic rules of statistics, reliability, validity, six sigma, etc.) using the G-tech to establish a baseline and then documenting the results from new modifications is indeed beneficial.

Keeping in mind that the device measures Hp at the wheels (not the flywheel); the baseline tests I ran using the device returned reasonable numbers that were comparable to what the manufacturer has reported.

Hope this helps explain my previous post....I do like the look and sound of the AEM CAI...but I am currently looking into other solutions and will remove then sell the part.

(By the way...I come from Lake Orion too! lol)
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Old 12-03-2001, 02:05 PM   #6
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Default Investigating CAI solution for WRX

One of the solutions I'm investigating is having a local custom silicone hose shop manufactur a "U" hose that would replace the resonator that Subaru fit in the fenderwell.

I will probably have it built to resemble what the resonator does but not to such a degree. One thing I'll probably do is drill some holes in the tubing at the apex of the bend to allow for water drainage and/or drill holes in the bottom of the stock air box (but to such a size I can plug them with grommets if needed).

Perhaps in using such a system would make the airflow shorter and take advantage of the ram-air effect (even though that doesn't really work until 60mph+). Who knows, maybe coat the whole thing in a cermaic coating/magnesium coating?

When I get around to it...I'll post the results.

Any opinions?
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Old 12-05-2001, 11:48 AM   #7
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Quantifying gains w/ a gtech? That's hilarious. Bring it to a awd dyno or bring the car to the dragstrip. Don't rely on the very unreliable gtech gizmo. JMHO btw.
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Old 12-05-2001, 01:11 PM   #8
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Default Other opinions onf g-tech

To be blunt; I'd be more interested in feedback from others who have a review of the AEM CAI for the WRX (as would most reading this thread I assume).



Indeed I seem to be right...a new forum would be more appropriate. Feel free to begin one yourself...I'd be very interested in hearing the feedback from others in the community.

However, and last time, about the g-tech:

I think you're missing the point. I too am skeptical of the numbers it returns...however, going back to basic statistical analysis from high school; reliability is everything. If a machine reports reliably...you CAN measure improvement/degradation.

Perhaps another comparison is one comparing it's accuracy to what most of the members here seem to be using...their "butt-o-meter".

By the way it could get quite expensive going back and forth to a dyno shop (much less a local AWD shop...can't find any in the state). Furthermore, as this is a machine being used by people, set-up is crucial and should be controlled to the highest extent possible. I'd be curious as to the environment/set-up/test procedures these "nay-sayers" are doing.

Here is some other information I found on here, in order of most informative on the g-tech device (I typically pay particular attention to those in our community with specialist status):


http://www.corral.net/projects/subzero/gtech.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9190/g-tech.html
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=gtech
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=gtech

Last edited by bmw_in_a_subaru; 12-05-2001 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 12-05-2001, 01:40 PM   #9
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Thumbs up

I do have the same system in my rex and liked it a lot, I know this has been said before but i dont feel GTEC'S or remotly reliable. from the feel of the car, and in races. Thw low end remained close to what it was stock. But high end gain was drastic, maybe we own somthing different or maybe we intstaled differently,
The AEM was not very expensive and it did its job.
I felt a strong (240 buck strong not huge) gain in tope end power.
the thing also sounds great (meaningless if it lost power)
but in my opinion it was a good investment.
keep in mind i dont use g-tech or butt-o-meters (haha)
this is from a phisical reaction to driving the car for a couple months with the CAI
the only problem ive had is fenderwell rattle from the piping but this can be fixed for 25 cents and some sponge or foam.
Id love to here you opinion on this and what the driving conditions were when you tested it, my gain was the strongest in 40 degree weather (obviosly, thats when i felt a difference i did not have with the stock air box)
Ive also seen about 3 dyno tests online that showed high end gains with the aem and ingen CAI's, i wish i still had the links, ill post them if i can find um again
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Old 12-05-2001, 02:00 PM   #10
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Default High-end gains of AEM CAI for WRX

Thanks for the reply REX,

May I ask what you mean by top-end power?

I'm assuming you mean speed? If that's the case, I really don't notice a difference in accelaration between 65 - 80/ 65-100 (shhh..don't tell the local police).

However, since I'll be experimenting with the "u-tube" modification listed before, maybe I can do some timed tests in the upper speeds.

Overall, it's a clean piece, and sounds nice.

As far as driving conditions...the pavement was extremely level judging from what our eyes could tell. Temp was 39degrees, with a humidity 54%.

What do you think about taking advantage of the ram-air scoop at the front of the vehicle? I've worked for GM for about four years in their competitive tear-down area (you'd cry at what I saw). While working there, I help develop a course in aerodynamics. Part of the course focused on air intakes/plenums and the affects of aerodynamics on it. So...with THAT said, assuming the Subaru engineers are good, I believe the scoop is in it's position for a reason. If you remove part of the weatherstriping at the front of the hood, you could also free-up some air going through the intake.
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Old 12-06-2001, 03:08 AM   #11
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Yes by top end speed i do mean 3rd-4th gear. I DID notice a difference in acceleration in 3rd above 5000 rpm and a change in 2nd. as for the jump it did absoulutly nothing. 1st gear (minus awd lauch) is sluggish. But keep in mind i have not tested this using any equiptment as i stated before. Just pure gut instict.
But i would not post my reply if i did not feel the AEM CAI was a good product. I have NEVER had a problem with this company (after countless parts on friends cars and 2 of mine) and i belive their rep is well deserved. I wish i had the money to go to a dyno everytime i worked on the car (which i dont even have an awd dyno in my state) but i just dont .
And about removing the water sheild stripping on the bumper vent ...Its a really good idea although the vent is very small. (good engineering or looks?)
But it actually sounds like a really cool idea and hell it cant hurt, its not gonna be hard to do and its free. WHOHOO!
If you do it PLEASE post your reaction. oh.. and feel free to give me a job anytime. Im intering at michlen this summer (hopefully) but that cant even compare to yours!!
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Old 12-06-2001, 03:13 AM   #12
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Wait! i do have one problem with AEM, the bypass valve does NOT WORK. Ive had friends with water logged cars with it on the intake piping.
OTHER WISE AEM IS GREAT!
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:49 AM   #13
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the ABV will work if you cut the pipes a little bit..I posted sometime ago about this...too bad I don't have any pic of the CAI and ABV installed on my Rex..
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:21 PM   #14
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I hate to chime in on this since I don't own one, but have any of you stopped to think about what resetting an ECU does? The car spends a while "learning" your driving style (which is where you took the baseline reading from) then you wipe out its memory and expect a gain? Are you crazy?

The only reliable comparison to believe is one made on a dyno, on the same day, within a few minutes of each other, with the engine temp the same, and withOUT reseting the ECU....

Give the ECU some time to relearn your driving habits and then retest.
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Old 12-14-2001, 11:21 AM   #15
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Post Reset done a week prior

Nope..not crazy. Testing conditions were near identical...outside temps were practically the same, same "test track", same engine temp (according to the in-dash gauge).

These tests were run practically a week AFTER the ECU was reset (simply didn't have the time to test it earlier). I typically drive 50miles/day..so I'd expect the ECU to "learn" my driving style within 350miles. Or am I wrong.

There seems to be much debate about this reset issue. Does anyone have any concrete/reliable information about this?

To me...logic would say that the ECU should be able to adjust itself to any air/fuel modification. Hence the use of oxygen sensors, mass air flow meters, etc.

By the way...still don't notice any improvement...but has yet to be quantified by a dyno.

Also...Sport Compact Car did an article on three modified WRX's...which (if I recall correctly) none had a modification to their air intake.

If anyone from AEM is reading...please do chime in. Furthermore, if anyone wants the unit...make me a resonable offer.
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Old 12-14-2001, 11:48 AM   #16
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Thumbs up

look at the the new Turbo magazine...if I'm not mistaken an xs intake produces 13 hp and 11 lb torque...something around that number..
I can feel the car pulls more strongly after the AEM CAI installed..but I agree, butt dyno is unreliable..I'm hoping somebody can get us the dyno result..
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Old 12-14-2001, 11:55 AM   #17
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If anything, I wouldn't trust the gtech and would probably keep the AEM CAI... here's why

People have been claiming power losses with Ingen intake as well, this isn't new... but, my friend, FreeBMW has been running the ingen and has an OBD2 scanner prog on his palm along w/ the serial connector... Though with the intake alone in you can't tell much of a power gain, but it did decrease the car's intake temp, which I believe is measured at the trottle body, by 10+ degrees-F. This my not show noticeable improvements while daily driving, this also may not show improvements in the top end, but you will feel it in the car's economy w/ gas, and across the rev range... Personally I find it curious that dyno's are claiming the CAI's for the WRX's pulling between 8-11+ horesepower in a 3rd gear run, yet everbody's gtechs say otherwise... curious... I plan on gettin' a nice old CAI just for the benefits of lowering the intake charge temperature which I have clearly seen, as told by the car's ECU.

sherif
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Old 12-14-2001, 12:03 PM   #18
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for what its worth,

i have recently installed this intake, and after a reset, the car felt ions better. keep in mind my mods;

Vishnu stage 0
uppipe, unichip, underdrive pulley
AEM CAI
Apexi Turbo Back 80mm exhaust
Samco hoses (i cant imagine these do much but on the upper end)

Before the reset, i drove the car for about 2 days. I felt the same way at first. seemed doggy at the higer rms where i expected bigger gains. after the reset, the car felt totally different. the high end ripped, and the turbo spools a bit faster. I have not retuned the chip for this mod yet either. just the basic stage 0 maps at the moment.

one thing that i have observed about my car, is how touchy it is to environmental changes. A SLIGHT change in humidity, and this car becomes a dog (not really, it just doesnt feel as strong). I would compare it to getting a bad tank of gas every so often, but it caused by minor changes in temp, pressure and humidity. So regardless if the weather seemed identical, it proly wasn't. Until someone throws this CAI on a dyno, I wouldn't trust any gtech or butt dyno data, not even mine.

josh
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Old 12-14-2001, 01:05 PM   #19
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Default Affirmations abound

Thanks for your reply Josh,

I'm waiting for a reply from Mark at XS Turbo about buying a unichip application. You happen to know if it takes him a LOONG time to respond to e-mails.

What you had said affirmed my predictions....the CAI alone is probably near worthless without modifying the ECU (i.e. via Unichip).

I will however investigate further into that "u-pipe" idea...a shop in Troy, MI is looking to the materials they have and molds they have in stock. We'll see.

Anyhow...as soon as that's wrapped up I'll simply sell the unit.

What do you think I should ask for it if it retails for $240?
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Old 12-17-2001, 10:19 AM   #20
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Smile I Just Installed my AEM CAI

I installed the CAI in about an hour and a half. The Install instructions where great. Fitment was perfect. Finish left a little to be desired( the aem sticker was upside down). I reset the ECU before going on a test run. Once I got the car on the road I love it. The turbo spool sound and dump valve are great. I notice maybe a very small gain, but only expected a small to nothing gain. The one thing I think that people need to understand is that tuning a car is a long process. Its not going to be one mod that gives you crazy fast cars, but several good mods put together. I am now waiting for my Samco intake hose and Intercooler hoses and my intake will be done.
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Old 12-17-2001, 01:04 PM   #21
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Thumbs up Aem Wrx Cai

I installed the CAI in about an hour and a half. The Install instructions where great. Fitment was perfect. Finish left a little to be desired( the aem sticker was upside down). I reset the ECU before going on a test run. Once I got the car on the road I love it. The turbo spool sound and dump valve are great. I notice maybe a very small gain, but only expected a small to nothing gain.
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Old 12-17-2001, 01:46 PM   #22
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Post A small suggestion..

If you are really trying to judge the effectiveness of any modification, you might want to reset the computer before the install, and then drive around for a while! For something as minor as a new intake, there is a good possibility that a lot of the benefit people are feeling is from resetting the computer as much as from the modification itself! Reset again after the mod.. Then you can try to notice any real difference..
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Old 12-17-2001, 03:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Reset done a week prior

Quote:
Originally posted by bmw_in_a_subaru
[b]To me...logic would say that the ECU should be able to adjust itself to any air/fuel modification. Hence the use of oxygen sensors, mass air flow meters, etc.
FWIW.... This is based off of a 5th gen Prelude (1998 I believe)...

Person instaled Adjustable Cam gears.... dyno tuned them.... made like 13HP over the base reading....

Went back 2 weeks later to redyno... the car had returned to the original power figures....

The ECUs in modern day cars are fairly intelligent.... Want real power from mods? Might I suggest a Tec2?
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Old 12-18-2001, 12:36 PM   #24
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Talking Just talked to AEM

I just got off of the phone with AEM. They are sending me a new sticker for the front because mine was sent with the sticker upside down. Just thought that I would share the info. Drove thru the rain last night and had no problems.
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Old 03-12-2002, 11:43 PM   #25
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AEM CAIs are proven stuff. They test like no one else I know before they release something. We have been selling them for DSMs for a long time. Lots of data to support that they are worthwhile.
We have them for WRXs now! Would love some feedback or hard numbers on WRX version.

ROAD/RACE Motorsports
http://www.roadracemotorsports.com/
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