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Old 11-21-2001, 09:36 PM   #1
sstyle
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Default NOS Octane Booster?

Well my friend apparantly bought this Octane Booster made by "NOS". It says garanteed performance increase on the bottle which you dumped into your gas tank. Is this a bunch of crap, becasue I laughed at him when he bought it. Anyone try it? Sorry if this is OT.
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Old 11-22-2001, 12:23 AM   #2
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Yup, octane boosters can improve your car's performance slightly just like running 104 octane race gas can. Your friend's butt-dyno will prolly feel the difference.

Be warned: Some of the commercial boosters (including the NOS brand) use MMT which can clog the cat and O2 sensors.

Other good ones like benzene, xylene and toluene are carcinogens - in case you care about such things.

Search the web for "octane booster" and you'll find several sites telling you how to mix up your own using toluene. They also tell you how to calculate how much to use. Much cheaper to buy a gallon of toluene at the paint store than to pay 8 bucks for a small can of NOS brand.

go here for some good info

john

Last edited by p-car; 11-22-2001 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 11-22-2001, 01:03 AM   #3
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When a bottle of octane booster claims to increase octane by 4 to 7 points, it will only increase your octane by 0.4 to 0.7. Another word, if you are using 87 octane, then adding a bottle of octane booster to your gas tank will increase your octane up to 87.4 - 87.7.

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Old 11-22-2001, 01:19 AM   #4
Richard L.
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Quote:
Originally quoted by p-car
go here for some good info
Actually, the equation on that site has an error in it. The original equation posted is:
Quote:
(14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) / 15.6 = 93.4
This equation should be ( (14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) ) / 15.6 = 93.4

Another word, you should divide the sum of the two products by 15.6 instead of dividing just the last product by 15.6.

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Old 11-22-2001, 11:58 PM   #5
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Thanks for the info. Doesn't octane boosters cause your engine to knock?
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Old 11-23-2001, 12:07 AM   #6
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Octane ratings are resistance to detonation. Higher octane == more resistance to detonation (more resistance to igniting at all, really). So, no, raising your octane, even the MINIMAL amount of those little bottles of octane booster, will lower the chances of knock (which is detonation).


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Old 11-23-2001, 01:07 AM   #7
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Yeah, and more octane also decreases your power. Unless you are advancing your timing, have some other mods (cams maybe), or have knocking, don't use high octane fuel.
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Old 11-23-2001, 10:07 AM   #8
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Or if you are running a lot of boost, or it is hot out, or your car is sitting around idling while you wait for a drag or autocross run, or...
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Old 11-23-2001, 05:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
if you are running a lot of boost
True, but refresh my memory. What forum is this? Oh yeah, Normally Aspirated!
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Old 11-23-2001, 05:27 PM   #10
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That doesn't mean we don't mention turbos, genius.
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Old 11-23-2001, 05:48 PM   #11
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Ok, I'll let you mention turbos...this time

I just don't like to see false statements like this:
Quote:
octane boosters can improve your car's performance slightly just like running 104 octane race gas can
I just like to point out that the best octane gas to use is the one with the lowest number that doesn't knock in your engine. After all, octane is an additive that prevents combustion.

Oh, and my official title is Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius
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Old 11-23-2001, 07:42 PM   #12
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Octane is an additive? Hah! Explain the 117 octane rating for PURE xylene. Yes, there is something called octane, and yes it is relevant to the octane rating scale, but there is NO requirement that octane be present for something to be rated on the scale.


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Old 11-23-2001, 07:57 PM   #13
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ok guys, short and sweet. unless you have detonation or are running more boost (or nitrous) at the track than what you are set up for, the main reason to get octane boost for your car is if you get a bad tank of gas and hear detonation.

If you put some octane booster in your NA car because you think it will be quicker at the track, WRONG. it will actually be slower. Like mentioned, the higher the octane rating, the slower the gas wants to ignite and decreases the chance of detonation. But, the slower the gas wants to ignite, the less violent the explosion and the less power you make. So, don't waste your money. Besides, I buy 108 octane gas to go racing, not that cheap octane crap. I'd just as soon put moth balls in my tank

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Old 11-23-2001, 08:09 PM   #14
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Moth ball extract has a very low octane number.
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Old 11-23-2001, 08:32 PM   #15
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exactly

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Old 11-23-2001, 10:52 PM   #16
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Default Hey supergenius...

Quote:
I just don't like to see false statements...
In a given engine, a fuel that doesn't knock will produce pretty much the same power as the best race gas.
But, how do those of us who are not super genius's really know when we're experiencing detonation? Unless it's pretty extreme, the knock sensor knows b4 we ever hear it and retards the timing. Yeah the car "runs" on 87 but I'm pretty sure that the ECU will allow the timing to advance with a better fuel.

I've run 96 MON race gas after running out of 92(R+M/2) pump gas at the track and my butt dyno felt a difference.

As always, YMMV

Last edited by p-car; 11-23-2001 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 11-23-2001, 11:29 PM   #17
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The equation was fine without the added parenthesis'
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Old 11-23-2001, 11:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally quoted by Monkeyballs
The equation was fine without the added parenthesis'
Try entering the original equation into your calculator. What do you get for an answer? I don't know about you, but I got 1350.5. Don't you know the laws of precedence? Multiplication and division are done first, then addition and subtraction.

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Old 11-23-2001, 11:52 PM   #19
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Math is hard, let's build engines.
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Old 11-24-2001, 01:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally quoted by bsquare
Math is hard, let's build engines.
How are you going to build engines without math? How would you compute compression ratio, displacement, timing, combustion chamber size, cylinder volume, crankshaft stroke, etc... ? Inquiring mind wants to know.

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Old 11-24-2001, 02:26 AM   #21
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It was a joke based on the fact that someone is arguing on this thread, yet isn't familiar with order of operations for basic arithmetic operators.

In short, you can't properly specify a motor without math.
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Old 11-24-2001, 05:40 AM   #22
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i'd also like to point out that race fuels over 100(sometimes 104) are leaded which does a WONDERFUL job of fouling o2 sensors and plugging cats. I run 89 in my car most of the time cause i run it slightly to hard...not that i need to run it but i do...i'll go back to 87 here soon.

Oh yeah subaru knock sensors suck.

THey don't read fer sheeot

jeremy
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Old 11-24-2001, 05:45 AM   #23
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You can get 110 unleaded gas, just fyi. However, most race gas is leaded, which I think I already beat to death as pure evil.
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Old 11-24-2001, 12:02 PM   #24
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Yup, they have 108 unleaded at the track here

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Old 11-24-2001, 02:04 PM   #25
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Engineers understand that a knock-sensor senses the vibration when a cylinder is detonating and retards the timing before a human ever hears it. So, groups like the the SAE and the American Petroleum Institute have done accelleration tests on knock-sensor equiped vehicles to get some real world estimation of octane requirements on modern cars.

I decided to look some stuff up rather than relying on memory...

The API tests on knock-sensor equiped vehicles determined that 89(R+M/2) octane performs better than 87 and that 93 performs better than 89. The tests show .43 second to 1.5 second improvements in accelleration between 40 and 70 mph when comparing 89 octane and 93 octane test runs. The results were similar between the 87 and 89 tests.

Whose butt-dyno won't notice a 1 second improvement in accellerating from 40 to 70?

Whenever you're talking octane numbers like "we have 108 octane unleaded here", you should specify RON, MON or R+M/2. A MON test is more applicable to a race engine because it runs at higher temp, higher RPM and the tester can advance the timing. MON numbers for the same fuel are lower than RON, R+M/2 is an average of the two and is what's posted at the pump in the USA. RON is what you see in other countries, their 96 is ~= our 92 (IIRC). Here in California, 100MON unleaded is about as hi as I've seen and is surely overkill for stock N/A Impreza. Some 76 stations sell "ProPower" unleaded 100(R+M/2) which they say is about 94MON and 106RON.

AFIK, a higher octane fuel does not burn slower than a lower octane fuel - it better resists self-igniting when compressed. The burn speed, energy value(BTU) and cooling ability are all properties that gas manufacturers try to optimize.

Any engineers on the board with more/different facts?
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