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Old 12-21-2007, 01:49 AM   #601
revnseven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
yeah but the 02/03 housing accept the 04+ inserts just fine and they (the inserts) are the same price, thus no need for spacers



<--- 04 wagon + 02/03 donor struts + 04 rear tops
Thanks for that bit of information, it will be nice not to have spacers.

It looks like on another thread I'll be makeing the nuts to fit the cusco camber plates with d specs for a guy in cali.

Brian
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:04 AM   #602
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I'm finally making a little progress. I took the advantage of having the day off to hack up my donor struts that I'm prepping for the Konis. I haven't seen any pics of the left-overs from the stock struts so I thought I'd post them up.



Luckily I didn't have any issues with measuring and cutting. I'll suspect that I'll be doing the install this weekend so I'll make sure to take lots of pic with measurements (I'm doing RCE wagon springs with GroupN tops on all 4 corners).



By the way, the OEM strut oil is nauseating...
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:11 PM   #603
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I finally took the initiative to install the new spring/strut combo yesterday. I took some pics and measurementsÖ





The only mods I have on the car at this moment, other than the springs/struts, are a Whiteline rear strutbar and a FHI 20mm rear swaybar. I am also running some Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S tires on my stock wheels (235-45-17). Perhaps this will put my driving impressions in context.

My initial and overall reaction is extremely positive. I am very satisfied with the look of the drop and the better handling characteristics. High speed turns are extremely controlled where the car is very and stable. During transitions, the car has lost a lot of that floaty feel. The car is so much easier to rotate, feels very agile, and is much more predictable. Keep in mind I havenít done any adjusting of the struts yet. Iím hoping to learn which preference suits my needs best in the next week or two.

There are some issues regarding comfort, that I find personally negligible when compared to the added benefit of better handling, I feel should be addressed before anyone considers purchasing this setup. My initial goal was to choose a very fun setup, that wasnít as harsh as my old Cusco Zero2 or Tanabe SS-Pro coilovers used on my old bugeye wagon, that wouldnít sacrifice daily driving comfort. Iíll just bluntly say that the post compression rebound is a bit jarring at slow speeds over road imperfections (dips, speed bumps, potholes). Itís funny because I find myself slowing down dramatically when nearing these obstacles now. Iím hoping that increasing the dampening will help alleviate the harsh rebound caused by the springs in these slow conditions (5-15mph).

To sum everything up, I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it package with good handling and half decent comfort. The RCE springs have exceeded my expectations because I feel they are very comfortable on the road conditions I use them in. They handle extremely well and make the car a blast to drive. I have no qualms with slowing down, or avoiding obstacles, for the sake having a more comfortable ride around town. I am very happy with these parts.



Moving forward, I have decided that my alignment goal is negative 2 degrees up front and negative 1 degree in the rear, 0 toe all around. I think this will help me have a little fun while preserving tire life. I recently purchased two sets of the Ingallís camber bolts to help with this goal. Does anyone know if these specs are easily attainable with my setup? If not, I guess Iíll just install my sedan control arms.

Here are a couple of links for those who want a more detailed pic of what the drop looks like. Sorry, my camera skills aren't that good...



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Old 12-29-2007, 10:36 PM   #604
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thanks for taking the time to post pics AND measurements

your on Grp N tops front and rear?
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:42 PM   #605
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sixtoo...great post and pictures.

I am assembling my Koni Inserts and RCE Springs tomorrow, I have Group-N's for the rear and RCE Lowering plates for the front.

I plan to install them on Saturday and will get pictures and measurements at that time and post up as well.

Thanks again sixtoo!

-Orion-
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:45 PM   #606
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Thankyou for the great write up. I will be doing the same thing on my 06 wagon this winter.Do you have any trouble with the 235 tires? Your wagon looks 'REAL NICE'.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:57 PM   #607
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Thanks for the informative post, sixtoo. Wagon looks fantastic. What were your dampers set to? And what is the tire size in the pics?

Interesting.. on your stockers, front passenger-to-driver delta was +0.25", and the rear passenger-to-driver delta was -0.25". While the gap for the RCE's remained even side to side .

General question regarding Koni inserts... would the directions for cutting up stock donors be the same, whether you used '04+ vs. '03- donors? I'm getting '04+ konis with '02 donors and just wanted to make sure the measurements for where you make the cuts are the same regardless of which donors are used.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:47 AM   #608
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^ should be exactly the same- there is a minor difference in the spring perch itself on the front struts but has no impact on measurements/cutting
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:47 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
thanks for taking the time to post pics AND measurements

your on Grp N tops front and rear?
No problemo. I probably wouldn't have even attempted this unless Jard posted that Koni thread. We've got some really great people on these boards who are super helpful.

Yup, I've got Grp N tophats on the front and rears. Do you think I'll be able to get -2* of camber up front since my setup is like stock? I'm a little too lazy to do the control arm swap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnser View Post
sixtoo...great post and pictures.

I am assembling my Koni Inserts and RCE Springs tomorrow, I have Group-N's for the rear and RCE Lowering plates for the front.

I plan to install them on Saturday and will get pictures and measurements at that time and post up as well.

Thanks again sixtoo!

-Orion-
This is going to look absolutely perfect plus you'll be able to dial in the perfect caster/camber setting. Also, I think you'll have solved the raked issue that most people dislike. It'll probably look nice and even when you're done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver-duck View Post
Thankyou for the great write up. I will be doing the same thing on my 06 wagon this winter.Do you have any trouble with the 235 tires? Your wagon looks 'REAL NICE'.
No troubles at all with the 235 tires. Keep in mind that with my stock 7" wide wheels, I am exceeding the intended tire size recommendations established by Pirelli. Have a look at this thread, it has a number of great suggestions on tire size recommendations, air pressure settings, and links to some excellent FAQ's put out by tire rack. If you're going to continue to run your stock 06 wheels, my suggestion is that you don't go any wider than a 225 tire.
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:16 PM   #610
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great- just wanted to be sure you weren't running camber plates in front that might skew the ride heights one way or another depending on which ones

you won't get -2.0 w/o "help"- camber bolt in the lower hole or minor slotting of the strut hole (or sedan arms or camber plates)

about -1.3 is the best to hope for w/ the oe eccentric bolt alone
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:46 PM   #611
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Here's a shot of what 235's on 7" wheels looks like. I'm at 34psi up front and 32psi in the rear. Keep in mind that these are cold readings I took this morning.





For safety purposes, it's advised to run this size of a tire on a wheel no smaller than 7.5" wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind View Post
Thanks for the informative post, sixtoo. Wagon looks fantastic. What were your dampers set to? And what is the tire size in the pics?

Interesting.. on your stockers, front passenger-to-driver delta was +0.25", and the rear passenger-to-driver delta was -0.25". While the gap for the RCE's remained even side to side .

General question regarding Koni inserts... would the directions for cutting up stock donors be the same, whether you used '04+ vs. '03- donors? I'm getting '04+ konis with '02 donors and just wanted to make sure the measurements for where you make the cuts are the same regardless of which donors are used.
Thanks for the compliments. I haven't fooled with the dampers yet other than making sure they were all set to full soft. I've noticed a bit of understeer but I'm not really that acclimated to telling easily (perhaps a number of AutoX's well help me out). I plan to stiffen up the rear a couple of turns today to see how things change up a bit.

I took the liberty of scanning the directions so you could take a look. Since you're getting '04+ inserts, the directions will tell you to remove 40mm from the top of your donor struts (see the pic I have above of the stock cartridges in the bucket). Sorry, I'm unsure if the 02/03 housing will be different but my best guess is that you'll have to cut off the same amount. All you really need to do is to make sure the protruding tabs on the Koni insert wedge themselves inside your donor struts and they'll be nice and secure. Enjoy:

Assembly Instructions


Adjustment Directions
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:57 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
great- just wanted to be sure you weren't running camber plates in front that might skew the ride heights one way or another depending on which ones

you won't get -2.0 w/o "help"- camber bolt in the lower hole or minor slotting of the strut hole (or sedan arms or camber plates)

about -1.3 is the best to hope for w/ the oe eccentric bolt alone
Awesome, thanks for the quick response. I guess I'll opt for the sedan arms since I've already got a set lying around.
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Old 12-30-2007, 02:06 PM   #613
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I had some one plug in the numbers (calculated actual suspension frequencies) combined w/ the Koni dyno graphs and at 65% critical damped this came out to very close to full soft front/rear- I'd recommend this as a start. I even ran this at a couple of autox events, with exception of quick transition stuff- slaloms and the like, it felt very good. I've since gone to slightly firmer settings for autox, but run full soft daily driving

I think there are a lots of folks running much firmer damping than needed
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:15 PM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtoo View Post
I took the liberty of scanning the directions so you could take a look. Since you're getting '04+ inserts, the directions will tell you to remove 40mm from the top of your donor struts (see the pic I have above of the stock cartridges in the bucket). Sorry, I'm unsure if the 02/03 housing will be different but my best guess is that you'll have to cut off the same amount. All you really need to do is to make sure the protruding tabs on the Koni insert wedge themselves inside your donor struts and they'll be nice and secure. Enjoy:
Thanks again, sixtoo. I think the conclusion is that there should be no difference. I can't wait to get these installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
I had some one plug in the numbers (calculated actual suspension frequencies) combined w/ the Koni dyno graphs and at 65% critical damped this came out to very close to full soft front/rear- I'd recommend this as a start. I even ran this at a couple of autox events, with exception of quick transition stuff- slaloms and the like, it felt very good. I've since gone to slightly firmer settings for autox, but run full soft daily driving

I think there are a lots of folks running much firmer damping than needed
Wow, so the Konis at full soft are at 0.65 critical damping for the RCE wagons? Interesting. I'll be running these with the pinks, looks like I'll be pretty "overdamped". Is that 0.65 in compression or rebound?
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:36 PM   #615
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rebound- I was a little surprised by this as well, because I know guys who run Prodrives (which are pretty softish in the WRX offering) w/ the Koni's and no complaints at all

clearly though they are capable of running pretty damn firm rates
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Old 12-31-2007, 08:30 AM   #616
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Looks nice. How much do you cut off the top of the stock struts?
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:04 AM   #617
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Looks nice. How much do you cut off the top of the stock struts?
I cut 40mm off of the stock struts...Please see the illustration in box #4

L1 values = protruding tabs to top length on Koni insert
L2 values = distance you cut off the OEM strut from the top

It's kind of hard to see the table, so I'll just post the values:

L1____L2
36mm 30mm
46mm 40mm
56mm 50mm
66mm 60mm
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:14 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
I had some one plug in the numbers (calculated actual suspension frequencies) combined w/ the Koni dyno graphs and at 65% critical damped this came out to very close to full soft front/rear- I'd recommend this as a start. I even ran this at a couple of autox events, with exception of quick transition stuff- slaloms and the like, it felt very good. I've since gone to slightly firmer settings for autox, but run full soft daily driving

I think there are a lots of folks running much firmer damping than needed

Not sure what critical dampening is yet, but you're suggesting starting off at full soft all around?

I took the car out last night for a spin around a local windy road area...maybe a good 20 mile stretch where I uaually average speeds of 35-40 when coasting through on my stock setup. Last night, I did a full half turn up front and a full turn in the rear (upped the dampening) and I was coasting with the greatest of ease around 45-50mph. It was almost nerve racking to see how much extra speed I could carry through the turns. It was getting late so I didn't have time for a return pass.

It was just a smooth and effortless drive, effortless in regards to how little steering input was needed to make the car rotate. I did notice a touch of oversteer on decreasing angle radius turns. I'm actually considering keeping my 20mm swaybars on the car for now since I'm pretty satisfied with the characteristics.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:22 AM   #619
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I'd start at full soft- front/rear. Definitely play w/ the rebound settings some though= part of the fun of having adj dampers You can influence to some degree overall handling w/ rebound damping by varying the amount front to rear.

The RCE springs are purposely built w/ rear spring rates approaching the fronts, this in itself dials out some understeer
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:38 AM   #620
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sixtoo, thanks for the write up and all the information you provided. It is very helpful as I consider the RCE wagon springs.
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:14 PM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtoo View Post
I finally took the initiative to install the new spring/strut combo yesterday. I took some pics and measurementsÖ





The only mods I have on the car at this moment, other than the springs/struts, are a Whiteline rear strutbar and a FHI 20mm rear swaybar. I am also running some Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S tires on my stock wheels (235-45-17). Perhaps this will put my driving impressions in context.

My initial and overall reaction is extremely positive. I am very satisfied with the look of the drop and the better handling characteristics. High speed turns are extremely controlled where the car is very and stable. During transitions, the car has lost a lot of that floaty feel. The car is so much easier to rotate, feels very agile, and is much more predictable. Keep in mind I havenít done any adjusting of the struts yet. Iím hoping to learn which preference suits my needs best in the next week or two.

There are some issues regarding comfort, that I find personally negligible when compared to the added benefit of better handling, I feel should be addressed before anyone considers purchasing this setup. My initial goal was to choose a very fun setup, that wasnít as harsh as my old Cusco Zero2 or Tanabe SS-Pro coilovers used on my old bugeye wagon, that wouldnít sacrifice daily driving comfort. Iíll just bluntly say that the post compression rebound is a bit jarring at slow speeds over road imperfections (dips, speed bumps, potholes). Itís funny because I find myself slowing down dramatically when nearing these obstacles now. Iím hoping that increasing the dampening will help alleviate the harsh rebound caused by the springs in these slow conditions (5-15mph).

To sum everything up, I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it package with good handling and half decent comfort. The RCE springs have exceeded my expectations because I feel they are very comfortable on the road conditions I use them in. They handle extremely well and make the car a blast to drive. I have no qualms with slowing down, or avoiding obstacles, for the sake having a more comfortable ride around town. I am very happy with these parts.



Moving forward, I have decided that my alignment goal is negative 2 degrees up front and negative 1 degree in the rear, 0 toe all around. I think this will help me have a little fun while preserving tire life. I recently purchased two sets of the Ingallís camber bolts to help with this goal. Does anyone know if these specs are easily attainable with my setup? If not, I guess Iíll just install my sedan control arms.

Here are a couple of links for those who want a more detailed pic of what the drop looks like. Sorry, my camera skills aren't that good...



Awesome pictures with measurements....i know a lot of people were waiting to see that. Thanks and PM sent.


- Andrew
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:35 PM   #622
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Awesome pictures with measurements....i know a lot of people were waiting to see that. Thanks and PM sent.


- Andrew
PM responded....big, big thanks to RCE for producing such a good spring!
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:30 PM   #623
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I had a chance to do some side-by-side comparisons with a car on the RCE Wagon Springs yesterday.

On the same size tires, my car (RCE Regular Guy & RCE Lowering Plates) was a little lower than his (RCE Wagon Springs & stop top hats). Rear was maybe 1/4" less gap from tire to fender, front was about 5/8" less gap (one additonal finger).
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:33 PM   #624
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Loving that stance on that 06 wagon.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:30 PM   #625
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Hey Fellas!!!

I got my set-up on today!

RCE Wagon Springs
RCE Lowering Front Plates
Group-N Rear Top Hats
Koni Inserts set to full soft

Initial Impressions:

Stiff, but VERY liveable on full soft. The only bumps I noticed a stiffer ride on are "abrupt" bumps (railroad crossings, potholes, things of that nature) for my commute to work it feels very compliant to the stock ride, soaks up some of the long/swoopy bumps VERY well. I found that I was going through turns faster and with more confidence than with the stock set-up.

It's in no way a complete pavement pounder with snow tires and no alignment, but it is free of it's "elephant on a stilts" feel that it came with from the factory.

I also packed 3 other people along with myself into it. me = 175lbs, dave in passenger seat = 225lbs?, Mikie rear driver's side = 210lbs, Ryan rear passenger's side = 150lbs. So it was fairly balanced. Absolutely NO Rubbing at all...

Overall: Very pleased with the set-up at this point. Cannot wait to mate them up with some good sway's.

Next question: I am going to be going in for alignment hopefully by Tuesday. I have been looking around, as a daily driver with 1-10 auto-x's per year, it looks as though -2 camber in the front looks good with minimal tire wear, 0 toe-in all around looks good. But I haven't seen many figures for rear camber settings? Anyone have any suggestions?

I will take pictures after my alignment. I did note that on the driver's side the rear was 13.5" and the front was about 13 9/16 or 13 5/8" it was like right in between. Overall almost the perfect stance in my eyes.

Thanks guys! Pics forthcoming with measurements, both now and stock (if I can find my stock ones?

-Orion-
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