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Old 10-27-2010, 01:30 PM   #826
T_Racer69
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Well, hmmm. I could be wrong, didn't realize that some cars have constant or near constant bumpstop contact. Just doesn't compute to me, but I am also not a susp. engineer.

Travis
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:38 PM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Also - is it right that in looking at the rear coils with the suspension loaded, there should be 4-5 coils touching? the front doesn't have any touching and are fairly spaced out.

Thanks - Ed
I cut my bumpstops down by the smallest nub.

I'll have to check my coils to be sure, but I think that they do touch.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:31 PM   #828
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Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
my stock bumps up front were ~3" ish tall the are cut down to like an ~1" IIRC

T_Racer69 I disagree with you assessment modern bump stops are some times in contact or near contact t stock hide hight.

ezil71 is the ride overly harsh up front?

R-

Hard for me to say for sure re: harsh - my stock setup was blown and I've been riding that way for who knows how long

the ride now is firmer, but smoother - I feel the road more, but it isn't a hard impact (granted, I'm at 5 TFFS f/r for the break in on the dspecs)

I'm going to go pull the front wheel and see if I'm on the stops.
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:09 PM   #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Racer69 View Post
Well, hmmm. I could be wrong, didn't realize that some cars have constant or near constant bumpstop contact. Just doesn't compute to me, but I am also not a susp. engineer.

Travis
The stock STi setup is very near to the bumpstops, there's not much travel at all.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:10 PM   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Hard for me to say for sure re: harsh - my stock setup was blown and I've been riding that way for who knows how long

the ride now is firmer, but smoother - I feel the road more, but it isn't a hard impact (granted, I'm at 5 TFFS f/r for the break in on the dspecs)

I'm going to go pull the front wheel and see if I'm on the stops.
If you pull the wheels and dont have weight of the car on the springs you wont be on the bump stops.

Ideally you would turn the wheel with the car on ramps or ground and then pull the boot up and see if the bumps are touching. This may be imposable but if you take the wight off the wheel you wont be on the bump stop.

R-
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #831
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Raise the front, jack stand it on the pinch weld. With a block of wood on the jack cradle, you could jack up the control arm and be able to fully see the spring, strut, bumpstop, etc. to see what is going on.

Travis
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:17 PM   #832
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Yep, that was the problem, although for some reason the passenger side is still higher

Long story short, not only was I riding on the bumpstops, but they had managed to do the "impossible" (according to Clint, who was helping me try to sort this out)

I cut the large cone part off (1") but on the pass side, the cone part had inverted into the upper part of the stop!

How the heck that happened, I can't say, but man that was a huge PITA to get off/down. I couldn't pull the stop down with all my strength/weight on it - finally put some wd 40 up there and after a ton of pulling, got it down to where I could get to the stop. Started cutting it and out popped the rest of the stop from up inside the upper section....

I'm now at 13.5 on both rears, 14 on the driver front and 14.4 or so on the passenger front. I'm assuming it will settle after a bit, but I supposed I can cut more after a week or so if it doesn't. I went for a 10 minute drive to see if it would settle, but just that side didn't.

Of course the good news now - wow- I've been riding on a crapped up stock setup for a while, because this is soooooo much smoother and not harsh at all, just firm.

riding on the stops had changed the steering feel too, which was heavier, and is now much better.

Now for the fun of dialing in the dspecs settings!
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:20 PM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Yep, that was the problem, although for some reason the passenger side is still higher

Long story short, not only was I riding on the bumpstops, but they had managed to do the "impossible" (according to Clint, who was helping me try to sort this out)

I cut the large cone part off (1") but on the pass side, the cone part had inverted into the upper part of the stop!

How the heck that happened, I can't say, but man that was a huge PITA to get off/down. I couldn't pull the stop down with all my strength/weight on it - finally put some wd 40 up there and after a ton of pulling, got it down to where I could get to the stop. Started cutting it and out popped the rest of the stop from up inside the upper section....

I'm now at 13.5 on both rears, 14 on the driver front and 14.4 or so on the passenger front. I'm assuming it will settle after a bit, but I supposed I can cut more after a week or so if it doesn't. I went for a 10 minute drive to see if it would settle, but just that side didn't.

Of course the good news now - wow- I've been riding on a crapped up stock setup for a while, because this is soooooo much smoother and not harsh at all, just firm.

riding on the stops had changed the steering feel too, which was heavier, and is now much better.

Now for the fun of dialing in the dspecs settings!
THAT is incredible. I'm going to grab a damper, a bump stop and the press tomorrow and see if I can replicate because that is just nuts.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:16 PM   #834
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^^ So you had an innie and an outtie?
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:05 AM   #835
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Originally Posted by mmiller2002 View Post
I cut my bumpstops down by the smallest nub.

I'll have to check my coils to be sure, but I think that they do touch.

My fronts have only part of the bottom 2 coils touching on the engine side. My rears have 4 fully touching and the 5th partly touching on the inside. HTH
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Old 10-30-2010, 02:13 PM   #836
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My fronts have only part of the bottom 2 coils touching on the engine side. My rears have 4 fully touching and the 5th partly touching on the inside. HTH

Thanks for checking, sounds like that is normal, mine are the same.

I'm still unsure about the bumpstops on mine though. TiC installed non stock stops, that have a firmer/cone section on the lower end and some accordian like rings up to the top section that are a thinner/less mass material.

Per TiC, I cut the 1" cone section, which doesn't seem to leave a lot of 'support' with the rings that are left. In hindsight, I wish I had cut the tops, and left the lower stop section.

I've read around a bit and see that most wrx stops are more like the lower cone section I cut off, with 2-4 or so of those sections. It would be a huge pain to replace what I have with one of the aftermarket options (which I've read about, but don't find much online re: sales).

I sure would hate to have my new setup/struts get messed up because of lack of decent stops, but clearly they need to be shorter than what TiC put in.

Anyone have suggestions on good short stops (like 2" or less) that will protect my struts properly?

These are the kind TiC put in so you can see the bellows section that is all that is protecting the struts now:

http://www.google.com/gbproducts/...ek+Google+Base

The reason I ordered from TiC in the first place was to not have to worry about the setup/install/components and having to track down that it was on the stops, cut them etc and spend 2+ hours working on fixing it has me rather frustrated.

Also, for whatever reason my front passenger side is 1/2 inch higher than it should be, when the other 3 corners are right on what they should be (13.5 rear, 14 front left, 14.5 front right). RCE says this is normal, but I'm surprised by that and didn't see any reference to it when I was researching (although have found a few random posts about it now).

Anyone else have this on their RCE springs?

Last edited by ezil71; 10-30-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:51 AM   #837
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Just to update. I swapped the springs and still have the same issue in the front.

Question re: the rear springs - there are a ton of dead coils in the rear, and only a couple that seem to be in use.

Is the RCE wagon spring too long?

I though I had the dspecs adjusted wrong, because I get a hard impact in the rear on moderate bumps, but after playing with the adjustments, I'm thinking there just isn't enough spring length/travel. I don't think it is the bump stops, given how much travel should be in the rears. Impacts are smooth up to a point, and then bang hard and from looking at the spring, it sure looks like all those dead coils are taking up much needed travel.

Anyone else have this? Do other springs have so many dead coils in the rear?
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:46 AM   #838
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ezil71: I have the RCE wagon springs paired with Konis and I've never notice any hard impacts in the rear. Did you reuse your OE bumpstops? I've read that the MY2002-2003 rear bumpstops are longer than the MY2004-2007 rear bumpstops -- maybe that is coming into play hear.

Regarding the dead coils, Myles has said that they're necessary to give the rear springs the proper balance of droop travel, ride height, and spring rate. Without the deadcoils in the rear...(1) at the same spring rate and proper ride height, the springs would be too short when the rear suspension was underloaded (droop) and the tire would lose contact with the road; (2) at the same spring rate and proper length for full droop travel, the rear end would be sitting way too high; (3) at the proper length for full droop travel and proper ride height, the spring rate would be far too soft. Think of the deadcoils as tender springs found on coilovers.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:16 PM   #839
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Thanks, makes sense re: the coils.

I have the TiC bumpstops, so I wouldn't think that they are too long, but I did have to cut the front ones they put in, so perhaps that is it.

They are sedan struts on a wagon, so perhaps that is part of it. I'll do some measurements next time I swap wheels.

I feel like I've got the dspecs dialed in pretty well, smooth and firm and follows the road nicely at 4 3/8 front, 4 5/8 in the rear. Amazing how much difference even an 1/8 turn makes on the dspecs, well worth the time to adjust in small increments.

Update: I did some measurements and found my rear was right at the bumpstops, so I cut them the same as the fronts (cone section off the TiC bumpstops) - both f/r are approx 2" bumpstops now

After the break in period on the dspecs, I dialed in to 2 15/16 front and 5 7/16 rear. 3 Front and 6 Rear is a very smooth ride, better for DD. Not sure why the larger gap between front/rear than the charts would suggest, but it really rides much better now. I suppose it is possible the rears my tighten up some now that this is some travel with the shortened stops, I'll update if that is the case after a few weeks.

If anyone with a wagon hasn't tried more than a 1 turn gap and isn't happy with the balance, give 2+ turns f/r a try. On the rce wagon springs and my bugeye, those settings are really nice.

Last edited by ezil71; 12-15-2010 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:18 AM   #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenliu84 View Post
This, generally speaking, are the ride heights with no spacers:

stock ride height = 15.25/14.25in = 387/362mm
Wagon ride height = 14.00/13.75in = 356/349mm => 31/13mm drop = 18mm diff.
Black ride height = 13.80/13.50in = 351/343mm => 36/19mm drop = 17mm diff.
Yellow ride height = 13.50/13.13in = 343/333mm => 44/29mm drop = 15mm diff.
Just to add a data point here, I have Konis + Prodrive "blue" springs on my 02 wagon, with about 45k miles on them. 13.5F / 13.75R. Thinking about changing due to somewhat crappy ride - not sure if thats mainly due to the aggressive high speed compression damping on the konis, or the drop on the prodrives (I never cut the bumpstops..)
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:46 AM   #841
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(I never cut the bumpstops..)
Hint hint I would start here. you can do alot of reading about how the prodrive are too low and too soft. Depending on your goals they might work for you, but not if your ridding on your bump stops.

R-
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:11 PM   #842
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I've read alot of this thread and ^^ this last post about the prodrive blue springs. I'm looking at replacing my stock struts and possibly springs to the RCE units, to get a smoother and more controlled ride, any suggestions on what strut to pair the rce unit with? My prodrives feel really harsh and bottom out frequently, I doubt a new strut would help that at all if they are to low and "soft"
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:59 PM   #843
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Originally Posted by hella_sti View Post
I've read alot of this thread and ^^ this last post about the prodrive blue springs. I'm looking at replacing my stock struts and possibly springs to the RCE units, to get a smoother and more controlled ride, any suggestions on what strut to pair the rce unit with? My prodrives feel really harsh and bottom out frequently, I doubt a new strut would help that at all if they are to low and "soft"
Koni Yellows if you can afford them and you don't go off road much. Dspecs if you go off road more and can't afford the Konis. STi stock struts if you can afford the other two.
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:02 PM   #844
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I love my RCE on Koni's. I did a lot of research on rates, heights, compatability with good struts. I will say again, I am totally happy with them. I ride around alot on the struts full soft around town, but crank them some for spirited driving and more so for autocross. Ride height seems about perfect to me to not be too low, but a mild drop. Never seem to hit the bumpstops(I did the D-Rex extenders on the front to add some compression stroke.)

Travis
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:25 PM   #845
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I love my RCE on Koni's. I did a lot of research on rates, heights, compatability with good struts. I will say again, I am totally happy with them. I ride around alot on the struts full soft around town, but crank them some for spirited driving and more so for autocross. Ride height seems about perfect to me to not be too low, but a mild drop. Never seem to hit the bumpstops(I did the D-Rex extenders on the front to add some compression stroke.)

Travis
Are you on yellows, blacks, or wagon specific RCE springs?
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:54 AM   #846
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Are you on yellows, blacks, or wagon specific RCE springs?

Sorry, wagon specs, which I believe are close to the blacks. But, Myles was doing a group buy setup, but having a hard time getting the number of people together. A canadian wheel and tire dealer had them, got them a while ago. But, yes, love the RCE Wagons.

Travis
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:13 AM   #847
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I have RCE Yellows in the box here, but I'm leaning towards the blacks/wagons for the ground clearance in snow storms here.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:23 AM   #848
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I've got a set of rce black springs and spt (sit inverted) struts sitting in my garage right now, Do I need to buy a different bump stop for the internal struts? Or can I use the existing units?
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:03 AM   #849
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My first though would be no based only on the thought that the Blacks are no drop to 10mm when compared to a STi spring. but I am not sure.

R-
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #850
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I've got a set of rce black springs and spt (sit inverted) struts sitting in my garage right now, Do I need to buy a different bump stop for the internal struts? Or can I use the existing units?
The RCE yellows come with different bump stops for the front STi struts, but I'm not sure about the blacks. The blacks still provide a moderate drop, so you may want to trim them a bit.

You could always call RCE or Turn in Concepts as well..they are pretty helpful.
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