Roller Barrel ITBs and Custom Intake Manifold Design

wgknestrick · 01-10-2007, 09:42 PM

(Puts flame suit on in preparation to be ridiculed by people with just TBE on their cars to tell me I didn't do something right)

Please note, the turbo is only a model that I found and is much bigger (5.5" inlet) than what is being used on my car.

I'd really like to thank quadtard (Shyloh) for offering to help get this project done with his expert CNC machining skills. He is proof that there are still good people left in this country willing to help strangers.

I really won't explain too much here as most info can be found in this thread:
http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/...ad.php?t=23730

Build is in progress, but certainly underway. I hope to be done before Summer.

Bill

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

wrxfactor · 01-10-2007, 09:48 PM

Awesome, just awesome. I look forward to being able to see some real fabrication, not just on the PC

Brainchild Customs · 01-10-2007, 09:53 PM

sick, looking forward to seeing it real

wgknestrick · 01-10-2007, 09:54 PM

Thanks.

I bet most people don't even know exactly what they are looking at. Ever since I saw the JUN Hyper Lemon, I wanted one. Since JUN will not sell it to me, I must build it....well try to anyways....just the engine bay.

wrxfactor · 01-10-2007, 10:33 PM

Hahaha I was just about to ask how you planned to cool the charge in each of the two intake plenums. What were your other cooling options besides taking air from the IC? I really don't know much about individual throttle bodies but if you could direct me to a good place to learn that would be great, google was kind of a bust.

wgknestrick · 01-10-2007, 10:37 PM

http://www.twminduction.com/

http://www.lumenition.com/roller.pdf

http://haywardperformance.com/

Unabomber · 01-10-2007, 10:54 PM

If I were you, I'd contact Corky Bell. http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/contact.html

Corky personally helped my local buddy Kienan with his twin turbo WRX and I'm sure he'd be glad to help with your set-up.

While I'm not intercooler design guru, my mental flow bench isn't happy with the existing design and maybe Corky can prove or improve your design. And it would never hurt to have him at least put an eye on it as he is considered by many to be a God amongst men in the turbo/intercooler world.

Kudos to you and hope to see you on the boards more, we miss you buddy!

modaddict · 01-11-2007, 12:13 AM

LOL!

i don't know what Im looking at, but it looks SICK! free bump for you!

pio!pio! · 01-11-2007, 12:20 AM

Why a barrel throttle over ITB's? I think I remember reading somewhere about the some disadvantages w/ tumble and throttle response..

chowder31 · 01-11-2007, 01:19 AM

You might have some cooling issues with that IC design. With a regular input on one side and output on the other, it's getting the air to flow all the way across the entire width of the intercooler, giving it more time to cool down. While in your model, it's only traveling half the distance.

But if it's a quality intercooler this may not be an issue, or you could apply other cooling methods.

Or I could be retarded and everything I just said had no merit

Looks friken cool tho!

jigga · 01-14-2007, 10:08 PM

Looks nice.... And expensive too! But it defintely will be a unique setup.. that's for sure... Good luck with it

MarkRx · 01-15-2007, 02:47 AM

solidworks + photo option? email corky bell.

wcbjr · 01-15-2007, 01:21 PM

Seems like a Coates style setup. With their roller barrel "cams".

wgknestrick · 01-15-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcbjr

Seems like a Coates style setup. With their roller barrel "cams".

Not at all. This is only an individual "throttle" body setup. There is a big difference between a barrel throttle and a cam/poppet valve/coates valves.

I start fabricating the manifolds this weekend, but I am still waiting on my velocity stacks.

Bill

8Complex · 01-16-2007, 08:43 AM

Pictures during fabrication would be nice. I'd like to see what goes into those roller barrel ITB's... how they seal on the housing, etc. Very cool project!

wcbjr · 01-16-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgknestrick

Not at all. This is only an individual "throttle" body setup. There is a big difference between a barrel throttle and a cam/poppet valve/coates valves.

I start fabricating the manifolds this weekend, but I am still waiting on my velocity stacks.

Bill

Just reminded me of it, thats all. Any pics of an actual implementation of rollers?

MikeCandler · 01-16-2007, 10:06 AM

Wow looks like a great design, what are the dimensions of the core you are using?

I REALLY like where you are going with this,

Mike

vtecTHIS · 01-16-2007, 11:11 AM

make this into a kit if it works ! looks ****ing sweet, and props for actually trying and making it

wgknestrick · 01-16-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtecTHIS

make this into a kit if it works ! looks ****ing sweet, and props for actually trying and making it

This has gone through my mind once or twice.

If anyone is seriously interested in doing this (and has CNC hookups), I have full drawings for every part seen. Radiator has also been taken care of, but not shown here (I'm being a little secretive on somethings until I decide whether to offer this) . I am probably going to do a full detailed walk thru (very similar to my Official Reversed Manifold thread) on how to do this.

For reference $, I have about $1K in machinist labor alone on the ITBs, and this is getting a couple of freebies. $550 for the intercooler from China Ebay supplier.

I'm not sure but could probably offer this as a kit in the neighborhood of the $3K range, but will see how easily it goes together and works.

This would hinge on being able to get components sourced from China, quality, and demand. The IC I got was of great quality and was cheaper than what I could buy the raw cores for by myself.

This would include:
Roller Barrel ITBs
DBW Synchronizer (not shown-uses modified stock TB housing)
2 Intake Manifolds
1 Intercooler
IC Piping
Vacuum routing and connections
Front mount radiator and hoses.

I've also thought of "bartering" the design for some tuning with some key people.

Bill

wgknestrick · 02-02-2007, 11:20 PM

Some pics before stuff goes out for some more TIG welding. Manifold fabrication is complete. I just hope that the passenger plenum clears the hood when it comes back from welding. It is very close.

wgknestrick · 02-02-2007, 11:20 PM

Trevor723 · 02-02-2007, 11:29 PM

Reminds me of this pic from the APS website. They have it listed as "DR725 system shown with prototype intake manifold"

Though it doesn't look like they are using ITB and look to have much smaller plenums.

wgknestrick · 02-02-2007, 11:47 PM

They probably have ITBs on that engine (I don't see a TB unless it is the round black silicone coupler looking thing at the plenum merge pipe. ).

Their plenums look to be 3" OD, while mine is 4". I don't know how they clear the hood with those big, tall bends / runners. Probably why it is just "prototype" and we've never seen in on a car.

kaneda3 · 02-03-2007, 12:02 AM

subscribes

8Complex · 02-03-2007, 11:54 AM

Looking great so far... can we get some pictures of the roller barrel housings? Or is what you have in there just spacers?

01-10-2007, 09:42 PM	#1
wgknestrick Scooby Specialist Member#: 32576 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Allentown, PA Vehicle: 04 STI Roller Barrel ITBS	Roller Barrel ITBs and Custom Intake Manifold Design (Puts flame suit on in preparation to be ridiculed by people with just TBE on their cars to tell me I didn't do something right) Please note, the turbo is only a model that I found and is much bigger (5.5" inlet) than what is being used on my car. I'd really like to thank quadtard (Shyloh) for offering to help get this project done with his expert CNC machining skills. He is proof that there are still good people left in this country willing to help strangers. I really won't explain too much here as most info can be found in this thread: http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/...ad.php?t=23730 Build is in progress, but certainly underway. I hope to be done before Summer. Bill * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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01-10-2007, 09:48 PM	#2
wrxfactor Scooby Specialist Member#: 49978 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Shrewsbury, MA Vehicle: 2002 WRX w/ JDM STi 6spd, EJ255, VF39 & EWG	Awesome, just awesome. I look forward to being able to see some real fabrication, not just on the PC

01-10-2007, 09:53 PM	#3
Brainchild Customs Vendor Member#: 127343 Join Date: Sep 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Vehicle: NCCA #1 Car '08 www.brainchildcustoms.com	sick, looking forward to seeing it real

01-10-2007, 09:54 PM	#4
wgknestrick Scooby Specialist Member#: 32576 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Allentown, PA Vehicle: 04 STI Roller Barrel ITBS	Thanks. I bet most people don't even know exactly what they are looking at. Ever since I saw the JUN Hyper Lemon, I wanted one. Since JUN will not sell it to me, I must build it....well try to anyways....just the engine bay.

01-10-2007, 10:33 PM	#5
wrxfactor Scooby Specialist Member#: 49978 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Shrewsbury, MA Vehicle: 2002 WRX w/ JDM STi 6spd, EJ255, VF39 & EWG	Hahaha I was just about to ask how you planned to cool the charge in each of the two intake plenums. What were your other cooling options besides taking air from the IC? I really don't know much about individual throttle bodies but if you could direct me to a good place to learn that would be great, google was kind of a bust.

01-10-2007, 10:37 PM	#6
wgknestrick Scooby Specialist Member#: 32576 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Allentown, PA Vehicle: 04 STI Roller Barrel ITBS	http://www.twminduction.com/ http://www.lumenition.com/roller.pdf http://haywardperformance.com/

01-10-2007, 10:54 PM	#7
Unabomber Big Ron Moderator Member#: 18062 Join Date: Apr 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: I can save you a ton of cash Vehicle: on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy	If I were you, I'd contact Corky Bell. http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/contact.html Corky personally helped my local buddy Kienan with his twin turbo WRX and I'm sure he'd be glad to help with your set-up. While I'm not intercooler design guru, my mental flow bench isn't happy with the existing design and maybe Corky can prove or improve your design. And it would never hurt to have him at least put an eye on it as he is considered by many to be a God amongst men in the turbo/intercooler world. Kudos to you and hope to see you on the boards more, we miss you buddy!

01-11-2007, 12:13 AM	#8
modaddict Scooby Guru Member#: 95840 Join Date: Sep 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Pasco, WA Vehicle: sold to a good bud awaiting next car	LOL! i don't know what Im looking at, but it looks SICK! free bump for you!

01-11-2007, 12:20 AM	#9
pio!pio! Scooby Specialist Member#: 4190 Join Date: Feb 2001 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: San Jose, CA Vehicle: 2008 Impreza WRX STi Aspen White	Why a barrel throttle over ITB's? I think I remember reading somewhere about the some disadvantages w/ tumble and throttle response..

01-11-2007, 01:19 AM	#10
chowder31 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51293 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wiscansin Vehicle: 2009 Corolla SSSS Bright Blue	You might have some cooling issues with that IC design. With a regular input on one side and output on the other, it's getting the air to flow all the way across the entire width of the intercooler, giving it more time to cool down. While in your model, it's only traveling half the distance. But if it's a quality intercooler this may not be an issue, or you could apply other cooling methods. Or I could be retarded and everything I just said had no merit Looks friken cool tho!

01-14-2007, 10:08 PM	#11
jigga Scooby Guru Member#: 9960 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: in bed... Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX WRBlue Perl	Looks nice.... And expensive too! But it defintely will be a unique setup.. that's for sure... Good luck with it

01-15-2007, 02:47 AM	#12
MarkRx Scooby Specialist Member#: 42242 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: ATX Vehicle: 2006 STI White	solidworks + photo option? email corky bell.

01-15-2007, 01:21 PM	#13
wcbjr Scooby Guru Member#: 4001 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: I love spherical bearings! Vehicle: 2006 Legacy GT Obsidian black	Seems like a Coates style setup. With their roller barrel "cams".

01-16-2007, 08:43 AM	#15
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Pictures during fabrication would be nice. I'd like to see what goes into those roller barrel ITB's... how they seal on the housing, etc. Very cool project!

01-16-2007, 10:06 AM	#17
MikeCandler Scooby Newbie Member#: 123018 Join Date: Aug 2006 Chapter/Region: E. Canada Location: London, Ontario Vehicle: 2009 Legacy Spec B White	Wow looks like a great design, what are the dimensions of the core you are using? I REALLY like where you are going with this, Mike

01-16-2007, 11:11 AM	#18
vtecTHIS Scooby Guru Member#: 48048 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: Japan Vehicle: . Nasioc, serious Bidnazz	make this into a kit if it works ! looks ****ing sweet, and props for actually trying and making it

02-02-2007, 11:20 PM	#20
wgknestrick Scooby Specialist Member#: 32576 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Allentown, PA Vehicle: 04 STI Roller Barrel ITBS	Some pics before stuff goes out for some more TIG welding. Manifold fabrication is complete. I just hope that the passenger plenum clears the hood when it comes back from welding. It is very close.

02-02-2007, 11:29 PM	#22
Trevor723 Scooby Specialist Member#: 57989 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Maine Vehicle: 2011 F150 EcoBoost flame blue	Reminds me of this pic from the APS website. They have it listed as "DR725 system shown with prototype intake manifold" Though it doesn't look like they are using ITB and look to have much smaller plenums.

02-02-2007, 11:47 PM	#23
wgknestrick Scooby Specialist Member#: 32576 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Allentown, PA Vehicle: 04 STI Roller Barrel ITBS	They probably have ITBs on that engine (I don't see a TB unless it is the round black silicone coupler looking thing at the plenum merge pipe. ). Their plenums look to be 3" OD, while mine is 4". I don't know how they clear the hood with those big, tall bends / runners. Probably why it is just "prototype" and we've never seen in on a car.

02-03-2007, 12:02 AM	#24
kaneda3 Scooby Specialist Member#: 8057 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: pittsburgh,PA Vehicle: 99 rs-t & 02 sti 95 s14.5	subscribes

02-03-2007, 11:54 AM	#25
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Looking great so far... can we get some pictures of the roller barrel housings? Or is what you have in there just spacers?