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Old 01-14-2007, 08:26 PM   #1
bucket7788
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Default Making my own STX Map Enginuity Style

Ok, so I'm taking the plunge. The Tactrix cable should be here in the next day or two. I've done a boatload of reading regarding self tuning here and on other forums. Even though there is a lot of discussion on timing, everyone has jacked the boost up as well, so looking at what they've done doesn't give me everything that I need. I have developed a tuning strategy, but it is just general. I am hoping for some of you heavy hitters to help me along. I will be using Enginuity and EcuFlash.

My engine mods: (04 WRX Wagon)
PnP OEM Manifolds
Cast TurboXS UP
Ebay Bellmouth DP (Wrapped)
Magnaflow 3" Hi Flow Cat (as recommended by Scrat)
STi axle back
EGT Gauge
Wideband and Knocklite soon to come

So, since this tune is for STX, I can't touch boost settings at all. That leaves fueling and timing. I have logged my current setup several times in mostly 2nd gear with a couple in 3rd. Here is one in 2nd. It's a Cobb STX map.

Code:
Time   RPM Throttle    MAF    Temp  Timing    MPH       KC    Boost	WGDC	IAM	Load
42:19.2	1609	6.27	12.5	64.4	33	15	0	-5.804	0	16	0.91
42:19.6	1670	20.78	15.75	64.4	32	15	0	-4.933	3.14	16	1.25
42:19.8	1716	100	27.57	64.4	26	15	4	0.435	12.55	16	1.88
42:20.0	1802	100	30.25	64.4	28	16	5	0.871	21.96	16	1.94
42:20.2	1912	100	32.99	64.4	31	16	6	1.596	34.51	16	2.03
42:20.5	2017	100	36.13	64.4	31	16	6	2.031	43.92	16	2.09
42:20.7	2117	100	38.27	64.4	29	17	6	2.612	53.33	16	2.16
42:20.9	2270	100	43.41	64.4	27	17	7	3.337	65.88	16	2.25
42:21.1	2358	100	47.2	64.4	25	19	7	4.063	75.29	16	2.34
42:21.3	2472	100	53.51	64.4	23	19	8	4.933	84.71	16	2.56
42:21.6	2597	100	62.34	64.4	19	21	7	6.384	91.37	16	2.75
42:21.8	2792	100	73.31	64.4	18	21	7	7.835	81.96	16	3.09
42:22.0	2938	100	84.47	64.4	18	24	8	9.722	79.61	16	3.5
42:22.2	3148	100	101.29	64.4	16	24	9	12.624	79.61	16	3.81
42:22.4	3338	100	111.48	64.4	14	27	8	13.639	79.61	16	3.97
42:22.7	3524	100	117.96	64.4	14	27	8	13.929	78.04	16	4.06
42:22.9	3752	100	132.25	62.6	14	30	7	14.22	74.12	16	4.16
42:23.1	3943	100	135.99	62.6	16	30	8	14.075	69.8	16	4.13
42:23.3	4114	100	138.6	62.6	17	34	8	13.784	69.02	16	4.03
42:23.5	4381	100	148.56	62.6	17	34	9	13.204	70.2	16	4.06
42:23.7	4565	100	156.17	62.6	18	34	10	13.349	70.98	16	4.09
42:24.0	4750	100	161.02	62.6	20	38	12	13.349	72.16	16	4.06
42:24.2	4954	100	168.62	62.6	20	38	10	13.349	72.16	16	4.09
42:24.4	5151	100	177.98	62.6	20	42	8	13.349	70.59	16	4.16
42:24.6	5376	100	187.66	62.6	21	42	8	13.349	61.96	16	4.19
42:24.8	5506	100	190.99	62.6	22	47	9	13.204	55.69	16	4.13
42:25.1	5669	100	192.85	62.6	24	47	9	12.333	46.67	16	4
42:25.3	5929	100	189.88	60.8	26	51	8	11.318	42.75	16	3.84
42:25.5	6073	100	189.14	60.8	26	51	8	10.447	41.18	16	3.72
42:25.7	6245	100	187.28	60.8	29	55	8	10.012	34.9	16	3.63
42:25.9	6287	100	188.77	60.8	30	55	8	9.722	26.27	16	3.56
42:26.2	6482	100	188.77	60.8	31	58	9	9.431	21.18	16	3.44
42:26.4	6620	100	182.16	60.8	33	58	10	8.996	10.59	16	3.28
42:26.6	6738	75.69	181.47	60.8	33	58	9	8.561	3.92	16	3.13
To my inexperienced eyes, it looks pretty good. IAM is all 16 and KC is looking good as well.

Now to the questions.

1. Since I am not messing with boost, and the stock map is reputed to be "pig rich", is it advisable to leave the stock fuel map alone at first?

2. How much timing do you think is left on the table in the various load/RPM ranges? Where is the best place to start adjusting timing and by what increment?

3. I am concerned about the OL/CL issue. Having looked at an 02 vs an 04 ROM image doesn't help me out much since the Closed Loop Delay Table is mumbo jumbo. Suggestions?

One more thought. I am very, very interested in optimizing torque down low (approx 2000 RPM). Having read Ride5000's "Load" thread a few times has me convinced that getting the power/torque/boost early is extremely important.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to all criticism and advice.

Buck
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Last edited by bucket7788; 01-15-2007 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Added Knocklite
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:20 PM   #2
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What exactly do STX rules state? Are you not allowed to change the max boost setting or are you not allowed to change any boost settings? Very important detail.

What AFRs are you targeting at redline? Chances are, from what I know about stock and Cobb maps, you probably should lean out your mixture a bit.

My advice is to establish fueling first. Get that set up. Since you are on 93 oct, you can probably target mid 11s at high load, at redline. Once you get fueling done, adjust your timing. You can start by figuring out where you're knocking, if at all. From your log, it's hard to figure that out without looking at the map for reference. In your case, it's even more complicated because you're running various KC values. Some people, including me, adjusted the KC and base timing tables to a uniform KC value which makes it easy to spot knock corrections. Perhaps you should consider doing that.

Eyeballing the log, I think you have some timing room above 3300 RPMs. I think you should be able to run more than 14 degrees at load of 4. I run that at load of 5 so I think there's extra torque to be had.
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:50 PM   #3
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You can't change the boost map at all, anywhere. If boost changes as a consequence of your other mods (intake, downpipe, etc) it's OK...but you can't change it in the tune.
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:59 AM   #4
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Ziggy, the rule says "no changes to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted." So no change to any setting is how I read it.

Regarding fuel, I don't have a copy of a Cobb ROM so I don't know for sure. But I expect that they probably left stock fueling or leaned it out a small amount. The 04 ROM I'm looking at runs AFR's to as low as 9.55:1. I was thinking of initially leaning out to 11.0:1. I may go to 11.5:1 later.

Regarding KC values, I considered that. I've read about Ride5000 and others doing that and wondered what the hell they were talking about. Then I compared my total timing to Base Timing plus KC at each load point. What a PITA. I just looked at the load points in the stock ROM's KC map. Changing all of them to 10 would not be far from what they are anyway. I may just do that.
Did you do it for the entire map, or just around the cells that typically get used at full throttle?

Buck
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Old 01-15-2007, 02:27 AM   #5
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Ziggy, I also found this post of yours. Any updates on the OL/CL delay table?

Buck
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:44 AM   #6
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If you're going for max power, you really should think about getting a visible or audible knock indicator, like a knock light or det cans.

Similarly, when tuning fuel, a WBO2 will be helpful, but so will the knock indicator.

If you are going to flatten the KC map to make it easier to read logs when looking for knock, you'll want to adjust the base map to keep the total timing the same at first. Then go from there. Remember that 1* of timing will often be enough to cause the engine to knock. You're going to want to concentrate on the load areas above 2 as well, most likely 2.5 and higher.
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:39 AM   #7
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drees, I edited the first post to include the Knocklite. For sure I need that as well. I had it further down my list of things to get. Now it's at the top. I read a couple of threads about them last night. When I sell the AP that and the wideband will be on the way, maybe with an APS turbo inlet Do you have the TurboXS Knocklite installed? Did you use the shielded wire? Sounds like a PITA if unnecessary.

I'm still on the fence regarding setting the entire KC table to 10. I respect the guys that do it and at least one that is dead against it. It's hard to decide. I will probably do it for this map and decide how it went. Maybe I'll try the other way when I do a boosted map later.

As for tuning in load ranges, do you think it's possible to squeeze anything out of 2.0 at all? From reading Ken's "What's your load" thread, I gather that tuning the lower load ranges well is what he does to get his torque to come on so early. I would really like to do that as well.

Buck
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:08 AM   #8
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Focusing on the timing in the 1500-3000 RPM and 2-3 load cells very affects spool. I am experimenting with some different values in this area, basically lowering timing. Also, I have had good success with the GM BCS to aid in spool but I think that is off limits for the STX class.

You will want to rescale your timing and fuel maps out to a engine load of 4.75 or 5.0 since with exhaust you will see higher loads.

You may want to investigate what is allowed or not in STX more. If you leave the stock boost map intact but change the boost proportional tables, you actually could make the car overboost the setpoint and not correct for it up til say 15 or 15.5 psi. Maybe this is not allowed either but if you leave the setpoint alone, perhaps it is a loophole?

Also, if the maximum boost level is what you cannot change, perhaps you could also run that max boost all the way to redline. It is known that the td04 turbo will flow up to 14 or 14.5 psi at redline. You could also set a lower first RPM row in the boost table to help force the boost on sooner with a boost target there of max.

Again, these are just suggestions that I'm not sure are allowed in STX. I don't know how stringent they are. I used to run in Street Mod.
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
Focusing on the timing in the 1500-3000 RPM and 2-3 load cells very affects spool. I am experimenting with some different values in this area, basically lowering timing. Also, I have had good success with the GM BCS to aid in spool but I think that is off limits for the STX class.

You will want to rescale your timing and fuel maps out to a engine load of 4.75 or 5.0 since with exhaust you will see higher loads.
I am very curious to find out what you come up with regarding the lower RPM timing to help spool. I think NavyBlue's thread on this is interesting.

How do I rescale the timing and fuel maps? I seem to remember someone with additional load columns, but can't find it now. Maybe they were using UTEC.

As to the loophole thing, I'm not going to mess with that unless I find out later that it is permissible. I doubt it though.
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
Ziggy, I also found this post of yours. Any updates on the OL/CL delay table?

Buck
I haven't had the chance to do the research I'd like. I've been battling some mechanical issues recently unrelated to tuning so I am just now getting back to getting my tune in order.
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I am very curious to find out what you come up with regarding the lower RPM timing to help spool. I think NavyBlue's thread on this is interesting.

How do I rescale the timing and fuel maps? I seem to remember someone with additional load columns, but can't find it now. Maybe they were using UTEC.

As to the loophole thing, I'm not going to mess with that unless I find out later that it is permissible. I doubt it though.

I will let you know what happens with my timing investigations over this week.

Basically to rescale your maps, you don't ADD columns, you simply re-label the existing columns to get a higher load value and resolution in the areas where you need it. You then continue to smoothly taper the timing or AFR from the last stock column. This is best done by copying the entire table into Excel, modifiying it, and copying it back.

I just read the SCCA STX rules for 2007 and I think most of my suggestions for boost would not be allowed. Too bad.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:23 PM   #12
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Cool!

If I rescale the load in one table, do all of the other tables have to have the exact same scalings?

Buck
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
Cool!

If I rescale the load in one table, do all of the other tables have to have the exact same scalings?

Buck
Nope, that is not neccesary. Just rescale the maps you will need higher values on.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:27 PM   #14
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Wicked cool!

Thanks
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:58 PM   #15
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So today I started altering the values from a stock 04 WRX ROM.

First, I divided all of the values in the Closed Loop Delay table by 4.

Next, I changed the OL/CL RPM to 4400-4500 RPM

Then I got into the meat.

I changed the Ignition Correction Table to values of all 10 (actually 9.84). Pretty easy.

Then I used Excel to do the math on the Primary Ignition Table and put those values in. I left the first 3 load columns alone since there are no corresponding columns in the Correction Table.



Here's the fuel table. I basically looked at Ride5000's table and messed around trying to make it look similar. I didn't go with quite the same shape at low loads and went somewhat richer. Let me know where the weak spots are please.

Code:
	0.44	0.8	1.16	1.52	2.05	2.37	2.67	2.96	3.28	3.6	3.83	4.03	4.33	4.51
800	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7
1200	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
1600	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
2000	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
2400	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
2800	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
3200	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.25	13.73	13.34	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47
3600	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.15	13.73	13.16	13.07	12.38	11.98	11.69	11.47	11.47
4000	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.7	14.36	13.44	13.54	12.71	12.46	11.61	11.69	11.27	11.27	11.27
4400	14.59	14.59	14.47	14.36	14.04	12.63	12.71	11.76	11.69	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
4800	14.47	14.47	13.34	12.71	12.22	11.76	11.54	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
5200	14.47	13.84	13.34	12.71	12.22	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
5600	12.98	12.98	12.98	12.46	11.98	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
6000	11.98	11.98	11.98	11.98	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
6400	12.22	12.22	11.98	11.76	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
6800	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.47	11.27	11.27	11.27
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:31 PM   #16
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bucket is there a reason the timing goes low around 3-4 k rpm
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
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bucket is there a reason the timing goes low around 3-4 k rpm
From 3K to 4K you run max boost so you have to be carefull about adding to much timing. After 4K the timing start to increase as boost decreases.
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:43 AM   #18
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As of right now, that timing table is still stock. All I have done is modified the Correction table to all 10's and then adjusted the Base Ignition Table to compensate for that so Final Timing should still be the same.
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Old 01-16-2007, 05:17 PM   #19
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Looks like you have the basic idea so far. Your fuel map looks reasonable. Even though you did not rescale it out to 5, if you venture past your last load column, I believe the ECU simply uses the last values which should be fine. This is very similar to the fuel map that I am running currently.

One thing that may also help is rescaling your injector depending on what fuel you are running. If you run E10 (10% ethanol), I believe that it is a good idea to tell your ECU your injectors are smaller than they are so that the ECU will not have to learn to add fuel. Search in the E10 thread. This also seems to aid throttle tip-in response w/o changing the tip-in table. This is something that Ziggyrama and I may have stumbled on today.

I did my timing experiment and found that the timing I was running before I reduced it in the spool-up areas provided better response. So I am reverting back.
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Old 01-16-2007, 05:27 PM   #20
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My Tactrix cable arrived!!!! I'm so stoked. Cobb AP to be sold as soon as I gain some confidence (and get wideband and Knocklite).

The 93 oct I use is only 5% Ethanol. Probably not enough to change injector scaling? That would make AFR richer across the board correct?

I'm actually glad to hear that your timing experiment went the way it did. It just makes more sense to me that way.

Buck
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:17 PM   #21
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Adding ethanol to the fuel ends up leaning things out a bit when fueling goes open loop (especially without much time spent after a reset to allow the ECU to learn), to compensate you reduce the injector scaler so the ECU injects more fuel. 5% ethanol is probably close enough that you don't have to worry about it, though, but 10% gets to the point where it's a good idea to rescale the injectors about 3% smaller.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:22 AM   #22
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Adding ethanol to the fuel ends up leaning things out a bit when fueling goes open loop (especially without much time spent after a reset to allow the ECU to learn), to compensate you reduce the injector scaler so the ECU injects more fuel. 5% ethanol is probably close enough that you don't have to worry about it, though, but 10% gets to the point where it's a good idea to rescale the injectors about 3% smaller.
+1 That is exactlt what I have done and my LTFT is now right around zero. Better throttle response too due to increased throttle tip I think.

Bucket, when you get to adjusting your total timing, let us know
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:22 PM   #23
bucket7788
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For sure. I will post the timing map here before I put in the ECU. I just got the Knocklite today, but the LC-1 is coming in a separate package and didn't make it today. I want to get my AFR's logged and make any adjustments, then I'll be after the timing. I'm hopeful I can get at it over the weekend even though I have to work.

Buck
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:38 PM   #24
jaxscuby
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does your lc-1 afr compare to your base fuel map?
what I learned from tuning with ecutek, was that the
values in the fuel maps were just numbers, not the actual
afr that you desired. so i was either ncreasing or decreasing
these values to achive the afrs that I wanted.
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:40 PM   #25
bucket7788
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Ok. Knocklite and LC-1 are finally installed. I'm going to flash the map with the adjusted fueling (but with stock timing) and go for a few logs. I'm curious to see what difference there is between open loop fueling and what the map dictates. Once I know fuel is good to go, then timing changes are next.

I'm hopeful that I'll have an STX map that is 80% dialed in by tomorrow evening.

***Edit***
Jax, I didn't see your post till after I wrote the above. No. The LC-1 just allows me to log AFR. I have to adjust my fuel map to compensate for any difference between what the map calls for and actual AFR as read by the LC-1. It should be pretty easy though, once I know what that differential is.

Buck
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