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Old 02-13-2007, 01:58 PM   #1
thejean
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Default How long does it take to manually prime the engine with oil?

Hey fellas. I flipped the motor over when it was on the engine stand and filled the pump with oil. The engine is now in the car and I filled it with oil, including the filter. Trying to manually prime the engine with ratchet from the crank pulley but it seems to be taking forever. How long does this usually take anyway? JC
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:12 PM   #2
Dizastical
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I have built about 10 STI motors. Each time to prime the motors I disconnect the injectors and crank the motor with the key for 15 seconds about 8 times. I have yet to have any problems with this method. Good luck.

Dave
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:52 PM   #3
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^^^ Agreed, this is a pretty standard way of priming, at least in Subarus.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:28 PM   #4
thejean
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K, I'll do that then. Thanks fellas. I was cranking for like 10 minutes and then figured that the crank speed was not enough to prime. The oil pump looks centrifugal, not positive displacement so that would make sense.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:10 PM   #5
Starkiller
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Disconnect the injectors or disable the fuel pump?
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:46 PM   #6
JMK508
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One way to confirm this is take the banjo bolt out of your turbo. Wait until you see oil and your real close.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller View Post
Disconnect the injectors or disable the fuel pump?
Either/or. You might get the motor to pop at first if your fuel system is still pressurized and you just disable the pump.

Really, the easiest way is if you have the stock ECU, just hold the accellerator to the floor and crank over the motor. The ECU automatically cuts the injectors when your throttle is open fully and you're trying to start the car -- THIS MAY NOT WORK ON DRIVE-BY-WIRE CARS, I don't know for sure.
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Old 02-18-2007, 02:22 AM   #8
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take spark plugs OUT! Crank until pressure comes up. If stubborn, remove oil filter, squirt oil in small hole seen with filter removed. Crank til oil comes out , then put the filter back on.. Crank some more till pressure is up, put plugs back in. You don't want to be cranking a new engine over without oil presure, and the load on the rod bearings caused by compression.
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subie4me View Post
take spark plugs OUT! Crank until pressure comes up. If stubborn, remove oil filter, squirt oil in small hole seen with filter removed. Crank til oil comes out , then put the filter back on.. Crank some more till pressure is up, put plugs back in. You don't want to be cranking a new engine over without oil presure, and the load on the rod bearings caused by compression.
Why would you need to take the plugs out? just unhook the engine harness on the left side and the car will not have spark.
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:37 PM   #10
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Listen, this is the proper way to prime a new engine or turbo.

Underneath the passenger side of the dashboard, next to the computer there are 3 plugs. You have to remove the pass side door sill to access them. Disconnect the big brown plug and the smaller green plug next to it. By doing this you are disabling the fuel and spark.

Now crank the engine over 5-10 times for about 5 seconds each.

You can also you this method for performing a compression test.


Don
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:01 PM   #11
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I think he's referring to pulling the plugs so there is no compression in the cylinders. No oil + compression probably puts some slight wear on the bearings, but I hardly think it enough to worry about unless the motor is going to be used to the edge of it's life.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Complex View Post
I think he's referring to pulling the plugs so there is no compression in the cylinders. No oil + compression probably puts some slight wear on the bearings, but I hardly think it enough to worry about unless the motor is going to be used to the edge of it's life.
I have also thought about pulling my plugs when priming the engine. Let me ask a few questions>

1. Has everyone performed a compression test? Then you'll know that just for numbers sake, its around 150psi.

2. Has anyone performed a running compression test? Thats right, screw in the compression gauge and start the car. You will see it is about 1/3 or so of the psi....50-75psi.



Now, when the plugs are pulled and there is no compression, the rod bearings are not getting squished. while this may be anal, I think it cannot hurt anything. it's just a little labor intensive.

To me, priming the engine with all the plugs it could be slightly harder on the engine, and there probably isn't any proof of this. When i do my engine, I will probably either pull the plugs out and crank it, or just fill the filter and fire the bish up. The assebly lube should provide protection for that 2-3 seconds of starvation.

Hell, us ej257 guys probably get oil starvation at 7k+ rpms
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:43 PM   #13
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I just think its a waste of time to pull the plugs. Not like its a big deal, so do it if it makes you happy. Compression is not hard on bearings because its gradual and not much force at all. The power stroke is what you don't want an unprimed motor to see. Who knows if priming is even necessary. its not like there are people willing to test it on their motor.

After all, whats assembly lube for?
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Old 02-18-2007, 10:47 PM   #14
cdvma
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I was just about to say, thats what assembly lube is for. If you use it properly, you should be covered for the first cranks to get oil in the galleys.
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:03 AM   #15
Assassin4457
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Regardless it wouldn't hurt the pull the plugs. Definitely LESS strain than if they were in. Might not be alot to do any damage, but better safe than sorry. Take care of your car, and the car will take care of you.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Complex View Post
Really, the easiest way is if you have the stock ECU, just hold the accellerator to the floor and crank over the motor. The ECU automatically cuts the injectors when your throttle is open fully and you're trying to start the car -- THIS MAY NOT WORK ON DRIVE-BY-WIRE CARS, I don't know for sure.
Great trick, I didn't know that! Should also help make sure the engine is fully primed after an oil change.
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:40 AM   #17
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it does not work with my DBW 04 sti.
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:23 AM   #18
Brydon
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As a added way to do this: Pull the 15amp fuse labed ign behind the coin try. This disables fuel, spark and the ecu. so you get no fuel pump. I have had at least one motor that had all new parts that did not want to prime. When the oil pumps are new they require a lot of cranking and higher rpms work better. For that pulling the plugs can help because you help the motor crank faster and stress the starter less also.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:57 PM   #19
Cosie Convert
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Take that 150 psi compression pressure and multiply it by the area of your piston and you may be surprised to find how many tons of force you have on your new, unpressurised bearings !
If you are not going to remove the plugs before cranking then you would be better just starting it straight away as the forces are less than half due to the plenum vacuum reducing the peak compression pressure (even considering combustion forces)
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:43 PM   #20
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assembly lube = the winner
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