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Old 01-24-2007, 04:06 PM   #1
skanave
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Default Open Source Tuning, good or bad?

I am actually very in favor of the open source movement both in the automotive world and the computer world. Some people
say that open source is a bad thing. Lets hear what you have to say?
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:11 PM   #2
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No experience with it.... i hope its a good thing... I'm on Step 1: Know what you're doing <---- this is where I'm at
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:15 PM   #3
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I don't see how it could be bad. You don't like free?
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:17 PM   #4
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I don't see how it could be bad. You don't like free?
free + $91

but that beats the price of AP/UTEC/Nemisis ANYDAY
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:18 PM   #5
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One bad thing is that you have more "tuned" cars out there running poorly because they weren't properly tuned by a professional.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:27 PM   #6
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free + $91

but that beats the price of AP/UTEC/Nemisis ANYDAY
Not technically true, you can borrow a cable, and not be inviolation of copyright/end user agreements. More power in the hands of the consumer is always better.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I don't see how it could be bad. You don't like free?

Some people have issues with it. Not me of course
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:32 PM   #8
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The biggest problem is you get weekend wannabe tuners with little or no experience screwing with values in the ecu they don't understand. Then they upload it onto a site and tell people how it worked wonders on THEIR car with a disclaimer "use at your own risk".

You have people similar to the above who just lean the car out and make lots of power... until something goes BOOM and they pour the what's left of their pistons out the oil pan.

Open source isn't a bad thing. If only knowledgeable people where allowed to use it I'd be all for it. Unfortunately you have a bunch of wannabe's screwing with crap they don't understand, who pass on their screwed up crap to a bunch of other wannabe's.

I personally don't care what happens to them or their cars, I just don't like it when they decide that the "experts" who invested their time and money into developing good working tunes give it away to support their wannabe status.

Good tuning takes a lot of time and money that wannabe's would rather have someone else expend. Its really not fair for expect a real tuner basically do all the work for them for free. Dyno's are expensive to buy and maintain, time isn't cheap either.

(btw, I read the origin of this post so I know where its coming from and am making comments specifically regarding that discussion)
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:45 PM   #9
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The big bonus with automotive open source tools for me is lowering the barrier to entry to learn how to do this on my own. To do this right I'm still going to have to pay for a WB O2 but that cost would have been there whether I used OS tools or not.

The thing I would guess to be a problem is the person that sees "free" and thinks that if it's freely available then it must be safe for anyone to use. There were plenty of people doing dumb things before free tools, but I can only imagine it's going to get worse now.

That said f'em. America is overly protective as is. I say give them the gun loaded, safety off, and pointed at their heads.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:47 PM   #10
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If you want a pro to tune the car go for it. I think its the best choice to pay someone to tune your car on a dyno. This is for most safety and most power.

If you want to use open source then its great. In the hands of the right person its very powerful. In the hands of the wrong person its either disasterous or the results are eehhh.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
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One bad thing is that you have more "tuned" cars out there running poorly because they weren't properly tuned by a professional.
As more professionals begin to use these tools and passing the savings on to the customer, you'll have more cars that are professionally tuned that normally would have no tune at all.
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
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free + $91

but that beats the price of AP/UTEC/Nemisis ANYDAY
The cable is hardware. You don't use free open source software and then say, "it's not free - I had to buy a computer."
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:02 PM   #13
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Though it sounds like the case I don't think so. I hope its the case so everyone is happy but I don't think so. Dyno time cost is dyno time cost. It's not cheap. They have to make dyno time cheaper too then.

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As more professionals begin to use these tools and passing the savings on to the customer, you'll have more cars that are professionally tuned that normally would have no tune at all.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:07 PM   #14
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Though it sounds like the case I don't think so. I hope its the case so everyone is happy but I don't think so. Dyno time cost is dyno time cost. It's not cheap. They have to make dyno time cheaper too then.
The cost of a license from any "comercial" vendor is what, $700. If someone can get the same tune, with the open source software, in the same time, that might be another 600-800 bucks. That's like 1/2 off, that's a massively lowers the cost of entrance.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:15 PM   #15
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Not any, just ecutek..

Quote:
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The cost of a license from any "comercial" vendor is what, $700. If someone can get the same tune, with the open source software, in the same time, that might be another 600-800 bucks. That's like 1/2 off, that's a massively lowers the cost of entrance.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:16 PM   #16
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I have heard of professional tuners using these tools and only charging dyno time ($200-$300 typical stage 2 tune). They still offer Ecutek tunes and/or ProTunes but give the user the option if they wish to save some cash.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:24 PM   #17
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Not any, just ecutek..
What about Cobb? 600, right? That's a license as well.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The cable is hardware. You don't use free open source software and then say, "it's not free - I had to buy a computer."
lol thats a good point

but regardless to reflash you need access to a cable, not to mention a computer oh god these prices are adding up quick!!!

free if you have a friend with one
free if you find one laying on the street
free if you find a WANNABE!!!!

not free if you have to buy a cable

i think its great what these guys are doing but like posted above, its really opening the doors to two things... cheap professional tuning and wannabe's (like me ) thinking they know what they are doing.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:35 PM   #19
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Last time I checked, 600 bucks used to get you a black box that held 10 realtime maps and 10 base maps which you can use for tunes or valet mode anti theft and such. It also reads codes, resets the ecu, reads boost etc. Now.. 600 dollars gets you even more.. so buzz... try again.

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What about Cobb? 600, right? That's a license as well.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:45 PM   #20
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Last time I checked, 600 bucks used to get you a black box that held 10 realtime maps and 10 base maps which you can use for tunes or valet mode anti theft and such. It also reads codes, resets the ecu, reads boost etc. Now.. 600 dollars gets you even more.. so buzz... try again.
It's still the only way to use Cobbs maps, is it not? The box is still only licensed to be used only one vehicle, is it not? The maps are not licensed to be removed from one car and used on another, are they not? So. Unless there is another, cheaper, way to avoid paying for the license when getting a Cobb Protune, you're full of ****.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:50 PM   #21
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Dude.. you know what? I wrote a program for my PC and it doesn't run on a Mac. Does it mean it's licensed? Just because the cobb maps only work with the AP (which is not true really) doesn't mean it's a license. The AP is not a license like ecutek. You get something for your 600 dollars. Stop twisting this to what it's not. You can use the AP without protune maps. You buy the AP, you can use it with a stage 1/2 map that's included with the AP. Cobb developed protuner software that makes maps to work with their AP. What's so wrong about that?

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It's still the only way to use Cobbs maps, is it not? The box is still only licensed to be used only one vehicle, is it not? The maps are not licensed to be removed from one car and used on another, are they not? So. Unless there is another, cheaper, way to avoid paying for the license when getting a Cobb Protune, you're full of ****.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:54 PM   #22
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I think the $600 Ecutek license now includes deltadash and their EasyEcu software which lets you switch maps (not real-time).
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:56 PM   #23
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Deltadash is nice.. EasyECU is still a joke in my opinion.

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I think the $600 Ecutek license now includes deltadash and their EasyEcu software which lets you switch maps (not real-time).
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:59 PM   #24
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Dude.. you know what? I wrote a program for my PC and it doesn't run on a Mac. Does it mean it's licensed? Just because the cobb maps only work with the AP (which is not true really) doesn't mean it's a license. The AP is not a license like ecutek. You get something for your 600 dollars. Stop twisting this to what it's not. You can use the AP without protune maps. You buy the AP, you can use it with a stage 1/2 map that's included with the AP. Cobb developed protuner software that makes maps to work with their AP. What's so wrong about that?
Go over to the Cobb forums, and ask about using the AP with multiple vehicles. Then tell me what they said. It's licensed for one vehicle only, it may provide more features, but it's still licensed.
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:15 PM   #25
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Deltadash is nice.. EasyECU is still a joke in my opinion.
Right, but at least Ecutek customers are now getting something for the $600. From what I understand, that includes a basic tune with some tuners, but I could be wrong.
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