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Old 02-09-2007, 01:39 AM   #1
NYCshopper
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Default Zeroshift Automated Manual Transmission could be an automotive killer app

Zeroshift Automated Manual Transmission could be an automotive killer app

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6807/



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One of the most remarkable claims weve heard in a long time and it appears to be true UK-based technology company Zeroshift has developed the killer app for automobiles an ingeniously simple way of replacing synchromesh in a manual gearbox with a reliable, cheap-to-manufacture mechanism that allows completely seamless gearchanges. Whatsmore, the Zeroshift Automated Manual Transmission (AMT) changes gear faster than any other gearbox (gearchange time is, as the name suggests, zero) and provides improved acceleration, economy and emissions in any vehicle to which it is applied, be front wheel drive cars, rear wheel drive cars, four wheel drive, motorcycles or trucks.

For road vehicles, extra refinement is available by combining gear shift actuation with a clutch, and the resultant system is claimed to be more efficient than Audi/VWs DSG and a cost effective alternative to the traditional torque converter based automatic transmission. Viewed from a performance basis, the Zeroshift has another compelling attribute it makes the same vehicle faster when accelerating with a normal transmission, each up-shift requires the driver to cut the torque momentarily by lifting the gas pedal and dipping the clutch. Good drivers can do this very quickly but not as quick as the Zeroshift which enables the gas pedal to remain pressed firmly against the floor, without any torque interruption. Accordingly, if it takes 30ms for each gearchange, and you have 30 gear changes per lap for 60 laps, Zeroshift offers a 54 second advantage if all other factors are equal. Theres an SAE paper on the subject available here and a great article on datalogging during the development of the system here.
more here:

http://www.hbm.com/custserv/SEURLF/A...nearticles.htm
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:36 AM   #2
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:43 AM   #3
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Zone of the Enders anyone?
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:52 AM   #4
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old news, but still important
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:13 AM   #5
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Umm... doesn't a CVT basically do the same thing? but better??

can it handle more torque than a CVT?
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:05 AM   #6
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cvt does a similar thing but in a different way. this has multiple gears, instead of just one "gear" that varies in size. its more complicated than that, but if you read the website it explains it all.

looks very promising, once they get the design smoothed out and production ready.
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Old 02-09-2007, 11:56 AM   #7
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I first heard of Zeroshift about two years ago. Indeed, it truly has the potential to revolutionize transmission technology (including DSG). From what i remember, it's actually enormously strong. We're talking about a DSG-style transmission with the strength of a race dogbox. And unbelievably fast shift times.

From what i remember, the only hurdles they were facing with it is making it quieter and smoother. Before i think each shift was rather loud and somewhat jerky due to the speed with which it engages.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:28 PM   #8
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how the flip does this work? the website needs a login.. i too lazy to register .

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Old 02-09-2007, 12:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owace View Post
how the flip does this work? the website needs a login.. i too lazy to register .

I don't think it needs a login... but as I understand it, it basically allows two gears to be engaged at the same time via two sets of dog teeth that move independently. At first, both sets lock down on one gear, locking it to the output shaft in both directions. When you shift, though, the "overridden" dog teeth (the ones without load on them because the engine is assumed to be providing motive power and not braking power) lift off the first gear and lock onto the second gear. However, as soon as the higher gear is engaged, the resultant higher speed of the output shaft overrides the lower gear that was selected, taking the load off those dog teeth that were still engaged to the first gear and allowing them to flip to the other side too, locking the shaft to the new gear in both directions.
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:10 PM   #10
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Zeroshift transmission to come for us Impreza owners!

It doesn't look any more realistic now.
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkers View Post
Before i think each shift was rather loud and somewhat jerky due to the speed with which it engages.
You mean that's not normal??


<goes and checks wagon with 200,000 miles on the original tranny...>
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:13 PM   #12
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http://www.hbm.com/company/apps/SEUR...E/app_view.htm

That has an ok explanation of how it works. Or go to zeroshift.com

This is a great idea, but unless its coupled with another system, you will still need a clutch or torque converter for 1st gear take off. Downshifts would be awkward and jerky too.

Great idea, needs codevelopment to make it work though (ie car manufacturer) and wont be plausible without big bucks.
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Old 02-15-2007, 08:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
Zeroshift transmission to come for us Impreza owners!

It doesn't look any more realistic now.


Sorry to get your panties in a bunch back then..
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFar View Post
Downshifts would be awkward and jerky too.
Downshifts should work just as smoothly. Only one of the two "bullets" is engaged with the dog teeth at any given time. If you're accelerating, its on one set of bullets if you're deccelerating its on the others. Whether its an upshift or downshift you move the bullets not under load. As soon as the next gear is engaged (up or down) the other bullets will be kicked out of engagement and can be moved into position if on the next gear (where they will not be under load unless deccelerating).

I think that since the diagram only shows gears one and two, people don't understand that there are bullets on both sides of gear two.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garwin View Post


Sorry to get your panties in a bunch back then..
Mine weren't in a bunch. I'm quite amused, and still hoping that my statement from that thread will be proven wrong.
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Old 02-15-2007, 06:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeGTP View Post
Downshifts should work just as smoothly. Only one of the two "bullets" is engaged with the dog teeth at any given time. If you're accelerating, its on one set of bullets if you're deccelerating its on the others. Whether its an upshift or downshift you move the bullets not under load. As soon as the next gear is engaged (up or down) the other bullets will be kicked out of engagement and can be moved into position if on the next gear (where they will not be under load unless deccelerating).

I think that since the diagram only shows gears one and two, people don't understand that there are bullets on both sides of gear two.
Where I'm coming in saying it will be jerky is because the engine will have to jump revs to the lower gears' wheel speed. The car will actually jerk in the same way as NOT rev matching and just shifting with the clutch, only worse as it is basically instantaneous with the zeroshift. The car itself will buck and be jerky.

I read an article that suggested maybe using a slipper clutch to bandaid that problem, but I've never heard of a slipper clutch being able to able to hold anything more than 75 ft/lbs of torque.

Maybe an entirely new method of careful modulation on the gas to nullify any load in either way could resolve the issue.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:39 AM   #17
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So how is this an update over two years ago?
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:32 AM   #18
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I hate this stuff.
its always AMAZING developments but they never actually make it to the market. just like the stupid auto makers and their "prototypes".
any time you see the "prototype" word you have to forget about the car.
same with this crap. people say its been 2 years now and nothing.
They never make it pass the "great concept" part.

I remember an article in "popular science" or some mag where someone came out with transparent aluminum, as clear as glass.
They said they would use it on car pillars. that was like 7 or 8 years ago and NOTHING.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:39 AM   #19
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I don't know about the transparent aluminum, but Zeroshift is going to the upcoming SAE conference to promote their item. They need funding to make this concept true. Only manufacturers could afford to push this item.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFar View Post
Where I'm coming in saying it will be jerky is because the engine will have to jump revs to the lower gears' wheel speed. The car will actually jerk in the same way as NOT rev matching and just shifting with the clutch, only worse as it is basically instantaneous with the zeroshift. The car itself will buck and be jerky.

I read an article that suggested maybe using a slipper clutch to bandaid that problem, but I've never heard of a slipper clutch being able to able to hold anything more than 75 ft/lbs of torque.

Maybe an entirely new method of careful modulation on the gas to nullify any load in either way could resolve the issue.
(old thread I know)

The cars are already drive by wire so have the ECU blip the throttle for downshifts and create some sort of "shaft brake" to slow down the engine RPM quickly for upshifts.
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