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Old 02-09-2007, 01:51 AM   #1
NYCshopper
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Default Car dealers’ 10 biggest lies

Car dealers’ 10 biggest lies

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17029482/

Quote:
Car dealers’ biggest lies
Though most are pretty honest, here are some details to watch out for

Pity the poor car salesman. Though he or she may diligently go to work every day trying to make a living like anyone else, the American people just can't warm up to him or her.

When it comes to qualities like honesty and integrity, survey after survey has the auto salesman's knuckles scraping the bottom of the barrel alongside those of politicians, insurance agents and telemarketers.

Is it fair? Not really. Despite Web sites filled with consumer vents against lying auto salesmen, there's no real evidence that they lie more often than anyone else does. If a car salesman claims that his lot's signature sedan offers a smoother ride than other guy's, is that any more dishonest than a brand of toothpaste claiming it gets teeth "as white as they can be" or a sign in a café window touting the "world's best coffee?"

It's all called marketing — which most people know to take with a grain of salt. Let's face it, life is a sales game. Companies and people make money by touting their product as being better than the competition's, whether or not it's actually true.

So why do car salesmen have such bad reputations? Probably because for most people, a car is their biggest single purchase other than a home. Combined with negotiable prices and lots of options to sort through, customers take trickery very seriously — a lot more than if a brand of food or laundry detergent failed to live up to its hype.

And of course there are the maverick salesmen and saleswomen, those hard-nosed, ethically challenged types who will stop at nothing for a sale. It's this group that tends to bring down the industry's reputation, spoiling the broth for the honest salespeople. They're not necessarily any more prevalent at auto dealerships than at a Wall Street brokerage firms or anywhere else. But again, car buyers making that once-in-five-years big purchase tend to notice them more. And there's no SEC or Nasdaq looking over their shoulder.

Why do dealership owners keep them on? They typically sit atop the sales charts — that's why. Industry reputation is one thing, but business is business. Unless you're talking about repeated serious violations that could invite legal action, no boss is going to get rid of his golden goose.

And some of the lies passed on by members of this sales force minority are true whoppers, further dragging down the industry's reputation.

Among the most egregious is an old scam called "price packing," in which a salesman agrees with a customer on a price for a car, then "packs" hundreds of dollars extra onto the final bill by claiming finance charges add up to a few more dollars per month than they actually do. All but the most astute customers would ever notice the difference.

Another bill-padder is excessive labor fees for pre-delivery work like audio system upgrades or larger wheels, also easy to disguise by adding just a handful of dollars a month to the final finance charge.

For the most part, though, car dealers engage in the same occasional white lies as anyone else. To create a sense of urgency, tell the customer he won't get the same price after the first of the month (that's sometimes true, but more often it's not). To lure prospective buyers to the showroom, put deceptive ads in the local paper that headline big price reductions but relegate higher financing terms to the fine print.

So why can't buying a car be more straight forward and haggle-free, where the price on the sticker is final? Because we, as a society, don't want that. General Motors' Saturn unit tried that approach a decade or so ago, and it flopped. The public has shown it likes to do battle with the car salesmen figuring they have a chance of winning — about as large a chance as winning the lottery, though.

Still, people keep arriving at car dealerships bracing for a fight. Some clearly relish the challenge, almost as if they're reliving their high school football days, trying to stare down a big rival. Nothing makes a buyer happier than driving off the lot with the car he wants and thinking he beat up the salesman for a good deal in the process.

It takes two to tango.

In Pictures: Ten Lies A Car Dealer Will Tell You



Monthly Specials
Dealers will try to close a sale by reminding you that buying incentives, like manufacturers' discounts or low financing, change each month. So that $1,500 discount on Jan. 30 could change to $1,000 by Feb. 1. In some cases it actually happens, though most of the time the incentive stays the same. Remember, everything is negotiable. If the salesman has a basic agreement with you, he's probably not going to risk blowing the sale because the calendar flipped



Labor Charges For Pre-Delivery Work
Buying a minivan but want to upgrade to a larger wheel base? That $300 cost of the replacement wheels is listed right in the printout. An additional labor cost is also legitimate, but some finance managers will subtly up that fee to squeeze another $100 or so out of you. Because that only affects the monthly payment by a couple of dollars, he's betting you'll never notice.



Price Packing
This is apparently rare, but it's a biggie. You've just agreed to pay $30,000 for a new sedan. You decide to put $10,000 down and finance the remaining $20,000 at 4.9% over 48 months. After crunching the numbers, your salesman tells you the monthly payment comes to $476.33. Sounds about right, doesn't it? Problem is the real monthly payment should be $459.68. The salesman managed to "pack on" an extra $16.65 a month, or nearly $800 to the total price. Unless you're armed with a financial calculator, you'll never notice



We Have The Car In Inventory
Sometimes a buyer needs to move fast and may even agree to leave a deposit by phone with a credit card if he's told the car he wants is on the lot and will be ready almost immediately. Only after the deposit is secured and the paperwork is in motion is he notified it will be a few days because the expected shipment has been delayed. The buyer is annoyed, but the salesman figures, usually correctly, that he won't bother backing out of the deal to start over again somewhere else.



No Bank Fee On All Leases
A dealer's local newspaper ad featuring a few specific vehicles will tout "no bank fees on all leases" (typically a $500 to $1,000 component of a lease) near the top of the page. The tactic succeeds in drawing buyers who assume this goodie applies to "all" vehicles in the dealership's lineup. But they're disappointed to learn that the special only applies to "all leases" of the specific vehicles highlighted in the ad, not all the vehicles on the lot




Balloon Note Financing--Limited Supply
Ads touting $19,000 cars for $14,000 may include the teaser "five left at this exact price." Only the fine print reveals the low price involves "balloon note" financing--deferring a big part of the cost to the end of a long payment contract. It's an appropriate financing tool for those who expect a higher income in the future. But forget the urgency associated with "five left." If you'll go with a balloon note, you're effectively paying the regular price anyway. They'll sell you any car under those terms for as long as they're in business




The Trade-In: 100,000 Miles Is Tough
Salesmen will always look for a reason to downplay the value of your trade-in. Some will say that anything with 100,000 miles is tough to sell above blue-book value, even if nothing magical happens when the odometer clicks from 99,999 to 100,000. A car with that much mileage won't fetch a whole lot in a trade anyway, of course, but don't let a salesman tell you that reaching some artificial plateau accelerates the depreciation.




The In-Stock Vehicle Special
Inventory levels affect profit margins. So dealers try to steer you toward a car in stock, even if it's not what you want. Example: You're looking for a basic minivan with few bells and whistles. The dealer has none in stock, so to meet your desire, he'd have to swap with another dealership. To get you into something on his lot, he'll tell you about "specials" that are expiring on more expensive versions. Going along might save you a little money on the upgraded model, but it will still leave you spending more than you'd planned.




Trade-in: Unpaid Balances.
If your trade-in still has a loan balance against it, some dealers will offer to pay it off if you buy a new car. Rarely will it work out as promised. The cost will be blended into the loan or, even worse, will fall apart when the deal reaches the financing manager. The salesman will then claim a misunderstanding, hoping that since the customer is now that much closer to driving home his new car, the deal can still be worked out. But the dealership will never pay a loan balance for free. That's just too good to be true.




The Extended Warranty "Covers Everything"

Why can dealers often sell cars right at the invoice price? Because aftermarket sales, like alarms and extended warranties, make up for it. Before forking over big money for an extended warranty, be sure it covers both wear and tear and mechanical failure. Too many customers have taken cars in for warranty work only to discover they weren't covered for the specific work needed. Go over all these details beforehand.
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:33 AM   #2
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What about the "We'll sell it to you for $10 above Invoice price" scam

... and then forget to mention that "Invoice price" is not what they actually pay for to get the car - they almost always get advertising discounts and other incentives which means that the dealer usually gets it for much less than Invoice.

Edmunds.com had a great write up a few years back on schemes and scams run by salesmen. My favorite from the Edmunds article was how more dealerships try to get people to look at the monthly payment and not the final vehicle price. An extra $10 added to a monthly payment - which no customer would actually notice - can add thousands to the total price of the car when fully paid out.
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:01 AM   #3
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I've also discovered, that if you're like me an looking at numbers gives you a headache, when you go to buy a car, you're going to get ripped off if you don't take someone who's good with numbers with you. The shop I work at used to be part of Mile One, and therefore, any cars bought from Mile One dealers were supposed to be sold for $1000 below the dealer's invoice price. At the dealership where I bought my car, the sticker price was about $19,500, the invoice price was about $14,000 or so. I had $4000 to put as a down payment, so theoretically I should have only had to finance $9000, right? Well, apparently I actually bought the car for about $1000 less than the sticker price, but after I put my name on that piece of paper, it was too late to do anything about it. Oh well, I still love the car, and I'm not going to let the actions of one stealership turn me off to the brand. I'm just not going to buy anymore cars off the dealer lot by myself anymore.
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
What about the "We'll sell it to you for $10 above Invoice price" scam

... and then forget to mention that "Invoice price" is not what they actually pay for to get the car - they almost always get advertising discounts and other incentives which means that the dealer usually gets it for much less than Invoice.

What's wrong with making a profit? If we sell a car for invoice (which most times we do) the dealership makes between $400-$650, depending on the price of the car. That translates into 2% profit. And I get a $75.00 mini commission.

You get raped day in day out with everything you buy. Whether it's an ipod, cheesburger or a new furniture set for you house. You have no problem giving 20%, 30%, even 50% or more profit to these people without thinking twice.

Why are carsalesman scumbags for trying to sell a car @ invoice?
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:05 AM   #5
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i learned a lot of negotiating tactics and I helped my parents get a brand new car for about 1k under msrp and that was the OTD price so they saved about 4k. They pulled that whole dog and pony show about today's special...I was like we'll walk out of here for this price OTD. You make it work or we'll drive down to the other dealership.
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:07 AM   #6
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good read, bringing a calculator with me on the purchase of my forrester saved me a few hundred bucks
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by sedele View Post
What's wrong with making a profit? If we sell a car for invoice (which most times we do) the dealership makes between $400-$650, depending on the price of the car. That translates into 2% profit. And I get a $75.00 mini commission.

You get d day in day out with everything you buy. Whether it's an ipod, cheesburger or a new furniture set for you house. You have no problem giving 20%, 30%, even 50% or more profit to these people without thinking twice.

Why are carsalesman scumbags for trying to sell a car @ invoice?
Why? Because most salespeople dont' know jack about the car they are selling - at one Subaru dealership one salesguy tried to tell me that the Wagon version of the WRX was called the TS.
Someone that doesn't know anything about cars could easily fall for that seeing as they are taking a Subaru representative - the salesman - for his word. Luckily most people know that a salesman's word isn't worth anything.

And second, car sales people try any under-handed way to jack the price of a car up for no benefit to the customer. It's one thing if you buy an overpriced "undercoating" package (which is BS to begin with), but even worse when they slip in an extra $10 or $20 on each monthly payment, which translates to hundreds or thousands of dollars more for the customer.

The car salesmen is a profession that should be extinct - absolutely no reason what so ever to still have to dicker on the sticker for a car. Saturn definitely has the right idea with their no haggle pricing.
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Old 02-09-2007, 11:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
The car salesmen is a profession that should be extinct - absolutely no reason what so ever to still have to dicker on the sticker for a car. Saturn definitely has the right idea with their no haggle pricing.

You know what? With the dawn of E-commerce, many people thought this would happen and everybody would just buy their cars on the internet. Well the problem with that is people need to drive the cars they are planning to buy, to see which one suits them the best. It's the same thing with clothing stores, ever bought a pair of jeans without trying them on? People have to try on their clothes before the buy them.

Now, you are right that a good number of car salesman don't know too much about the procuct they are selling, but that by far is not true for every car salesman out there. Don't let your singular experience speak for everyone else.
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Old 02-09-2007, 11:42 AM   #9
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The one thing this article failed to mention is getting your financing squared away BEFORE you go to the stealership. This way you won't get caught in their padding schemes as long as you carefully read what you are signing. You will almost always get a better rate from a credit union or bank.
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Old 02-09-2007, 11:42 AM   #10
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In Pictures: Ten Lies A Car Dealer Will Tell You

Monthly Specials
Dealers will try to close a sale by reminding you that buying incentives, like manufacturers' discounts or low financing, change each month. So that $1,500 discount on Jan. 30 could change to $1,000 by Feb. 1. In some cases it actually happens, though most of the time the incentive stays the same. Remember, everything is negotiable. If the salesman has a basic agreement with you, he's probably not going to risk blowing the sale because the calendar flipped


Manufacturers run incentives on a monthly basis, if the incentive changes before you look a deal in, you can only get the incentive that is available at that time. It's usually not like $5000 cash back one month and then nothing the next, but incentives do change or sometimes disappear month to month.



Labor Charges For Pre-Delivery Work
Buying a minivan but want to upgrade to a larger wheel base? That $300 cost of the replacement wheels is listed right in the printout. An additional labor cost is also legitimate, but some finance managers will subtly up that fee to squeeze another $100 or so out of you. Because that only affects the monthly payment by a couple of dollars, he's betting you'll never notice.


Changing your wheels is not the same thing, in anyway, as 'upgrading to a larger wheelbase'...its called research...actually scratch that...its called 'basic knowledge about the parts of an automobile'...watch out for excessive labor fees, but most dealers are willing to not charge for labor for accessories when you buy them with the car, where as if you came back in 6 months to add them on, you would get charged. Research to make sure the factory accessories are really the ones you want, and get them done with the purchase if you do.

Price Packing
This is apparently rare, but it's a biggie. You've just agreed to pay $30,000 for a new sedan. You decide to put $10,000 down and finance the remaining $20,000 at 4.9% over 48 months. After crunching the numbers, your salesman tells you the monthly payment comes to $476.33. Sounds about right, doesn't it? Problem is the real monthly payment should be $459.68. The salesman managed to "pack on" an extra $16.65 a month, or nearly $800 to the total price. Unless you're armed with a financial calculator, you'll never notice


Agreed that it's rare and is also messes with there books, dealers generally find ways to add fees in to pack the price...adding more dollars with no service/product requires tricky accounting. Always calculate on your own.



We Have The Car In Inventory
Sometimes a buyer needs to move fast and may even agree to leave a deposit by phone with a credit card if he's told the car he wants is on the lot and will be ready almost immediately. Only after the deposit is secured and the paperwork is in motion is he notified it will be a few days because the expected shipment has been delayed. The buyer is annoyed, but the salesman figures, usually correctly, that he won't bother backing out of the deal to start over again somewhere else.


Never put a deposit on an 'in inventory car' if you have not actually verified yourself that its 'in inventory'. If this does happen, you can at least try to work a better deal, but if your savvy enough to do that, you probably wouldn't have found yourself in that position in the first place.


No Bank Fee On All Leases
A dealer's local newspaper ad featuring a few specific vehicles will tout "no bank fees on all leases" (typically a $500 to $1,000 component of a lease) near the top of the page. The tactic succeeds in drawing buyers who assume this goodie applies to "all" vehicles in the dealership's lineup. But they're disappointed to learn that the special only applies to "all leases" of the specific vehicles highlighted in the ad, not all the vehicles on the lot


Typical bait and switch style tactic, not unique to this industry.


Balloon Note Financing--Limited Supply
Ads touting $19,000 cars for $14,000 may include the teaser "five left at this exact price." Only the fine print reveals the low price involves "balloon note" financing--deferring a big part of the cost to the end of a long payment contract. It's an appropriate financing tool for those who expect a higher income in the future. But forget the urgency associated with "five left." If you'll go with a balloon note, you're effectively paying the regular price anyway. They'll sell you any car under those terms for as long as they're in business


Deferring $5,000 to end of a 48 month financing doesn't change make the actual price of the car change in anyway (well maybe from an NPV perspective, wherein $5,000 today is worth much more than $5,000 4 years from now) if a dealer is pulling this...avoid like the plaque...but don't get confused with lease-style balloon payments in states that don't lease...different animal.



The Trade-In: 100,000 Miles Is Tough
Salesmen will always look for a reason to downplay the value of your trade-in. Some will say that anything with 100,000 miles is tough to sell above blue-book value, even if nothing magical happens when the odometer clicks from 99,999 to 100,000. A car with that much mileage won't fetch a whole lot in a trade anyway, of course, but don't let a salesman tell you that reaching some artificial plateau accelerates the depreciation.


Cars over 100,000 miles (or even much less than that) go straight to auction, dealers don't really want them and blue book is for trade in is always less than private sale. The only reason to trade in instead of private sale is if you really don't want to be bothered or if they are offering a blanket price like '$4000 for any car' and you know your car is barely worth that for private sale, let alone trade in. Keep in mind that you can probably negotiate that $4000 away without a trade, but if you don't like to haggle, you junker can do the talking for you.


The In-Stock Vehicle Special
Inventory levels affect profit margins. So dealers try to steer you toward a car in stock, even if it's not what you want. Example: You're looking for a basic minivan with few bells and whistles. The dealer has none in stock, so to meet your desire, he'd have to swap with another dealership. To get you into something on his lot, he'll tell you about "specials" that are expiring on more expensive versions. Going along might save you a little money on the upgraded model, but it will still leave you spending more than you'd planned.


Agreed, don't let a dealer try to limit you too 'in stock' options...they do prefer, but only go that route if you can use to your advantage...if you can get some options that you couldn't normally afford by going 'in stock' without breaking the bank go for it. But don't get the taupe sedan when you wanted the black coupe, cause the sedan was 'in stock' and good deal.


Trade-in: Unpaid Balances.
If your trade-in still has a loan balance against it, some dealers will offer to pay it off if you buy a new car. Rarely will it work out as promised. The cost will be blended into the loan or, even worse, will fall apart when the deal reaches the financing manager. The salesman will then claim a misunderstanding, hoping that since the customer is now that much closer to driving home his new car, the deal can still be worked out. But the dealership will never pay a loan balance for free. That's just too good to be true.


Absolutely, it's called negative equity and most people have it. The value of your trade in is rarely higher than the remaining owed on it. The only way you don't have it is if you put a significant amount down or you are close to the end of your financing period. However be aware of this and keep in mind that rolling over the loan can be the most convenient way to move into a new car before you have paid off your old one.


The Extended Warranty "Covers Everything"

Why can dealers often sell cars right at the invoice price? Because aftermarket sales, like alarms and extended warranties, make up for it. Before forking over big money for an extended warranty, be sure it covers both wear and tear and mechanical failure. Too many customers have taken cars in for warranty work only to discover they weren't covered for the specific work needed. Go over all these details beforehand.


Agreed, and never go for aftermarket warranties. They work by having you get the work done and then submitting the bill to them. They will invariable deny the charges at least at first, if not completely.

Last edited by Chad W; 02-09-2007 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:39 PM   #11
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I think there needs to be a fair balance. I had a coworker who was ' ' close to pulling the trigger on an SUV a few years back and I remember how much time he (IMO) wasted on "getting the most rock bottom price." He would call, email and beat the living daylights out of dealerships. Backed out a deal TWICE because he thought he was being screwed out of $50.

Give it a friggin rest - these people don't make obscene profits, let them do their jobs.

On the other hand, the number of bad and unethical practices by a few definitely taints the whole group.

My opinion when I went shopping for my WRX- sent an email and said, "This is exactly what I want in either of these two colors and this is basically how much I'm willing to pay for it."

I got back 2 responses, one said, "We can do it." The other said, "We can come close."

I went with the guy who said, "We can do it" and left it at that. Could I have brow beat the SOB for a week to get another $250 off the deal? Probably - but how much time of my own (which is money, IMO) would I have had to waste doing so? How much time did my coworker waste haggling in the end for a savings of >$1000?

Balance people, balance. Come up with a price you think is fair and pay it- the information is now widely available and there are plenty of dealerships around.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:46 PM   #12
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sorry, but my favorite part was:
Buying a minivan but want to upgrade to a larger wheel base?

wonder what the labor for THAT request would be.
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CirrusWRX View Post
I think there needs to be a fair balance. I had a coworker who was ' ' close to pulling the trigger on an SUV a few years back and I remember how much time he (IMO) wasted on "getting the most rock bottom price." He would call, email and beat the living daylights out of dealerships. Backed out a deal TWICE because he thought he was being screwed out of $50.

Give it a friggin rest - these people don't make obscene profits, let them do their jobs.

On the other hand, the number of bad and unethical practices by a few definitely taints the whole group.

My opinion when I went shopping for my WRX- sent an email and said, "This is exactly what I want in either of these two colors and this is basically how much I'm willing to pay for it."

I got back 2 responses, one said, "We can do it." The other said, "We can come close."

I went with the guy who said, "We can do it" and left it at that. Could I have brow beat the SOB for a week to get another $250 off the deal? Probably - but how much time of my own (which is money, IMO) would I have had to waste doing so? How much time did my coworker waste haggling in the end for a savings of >$1000?

Balance people, balance. Come up with a price you think is fair and pay it- the information is now widely available and there are plenty of dealerships around.

You are one of my favorite types of customers.
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sedele View Post
You are one of my favorite types of customers.
I thought my salesperson did a great job. The only 2 requests I said was, "I'm not going to pay for a window etching so don't charge me, and as much as I like the dealership, you're not paying me for free advertising so please don't paint or vinyl your logo on my trunk."

That was it - came in and did everything in one afternoon, saw my car with all the plastic wrap still on it, and he had me take it out for a test drive and we went and filled it up with all of 8 or 12 miles on the odo or whatever it was. I wanted to pick it up on my 21st bday 3 days later (present to myself for working my arse off! ) so they said that was fine, called me that morning and said come by any time.

There it was, waiting all nice and sparkly new. Took 10 minutes to sign the final paperwork. I would imagine I speant all of 2 hours from start to finish on my car buying experience and had no complaints.

Why people invest weeks and weeks of time calling and emailing and beating up salespeople and haggling and tossing and turning whether or not they managed to save $200 on a purchase that costs ~$30k is beyond me.
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:52 PM   #15
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I was fairly satisfied with my recent car purchase. I had signed up for the subaru vip program so I had a set price and the dealership knew that. I ordered my car to the detail, waited a month and a half. Shortly before it arrived my wife mentioned to them I didn't want the dealership logo on it and didn't want anyone to test drive it. They called when it arrived and when I showed up I had to wait to get in because the person with the keys was on a test drive with someone so the doors were all locked

I was definately more knowledgable than any of the sales people, but most had at least a decent knowledge of my car. The day I was going to drive it out of the show room floor, a guy who worked there mentioned how the first thing I should get was a BOV I almost felt bad later because I schooled him about BOVs and subarus.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:04 PM   #16
BigJ04STi
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All consumer products are "sold" to the customer. Whether it be through marketing/advertising and/or through actual sales people.

1 key quote about consumer products that is definitely true... People like to BUY, but they do not like to be sold.

All in all, no matter how "honest" or "dishonest" a salesperson is, the customer typically holds all the cards.

When it comes to car sales, I think many customers are extremely misinformed about things, especially due to consumer articles that get published daily, and the whole internet.

There are some bits of great information on the net, but much of it is garbage.

Realistic customers who know what they want, and are not misinformed about things will often get the best deals with the least hassle. Don't try to kill your sales person and much of the time you will get what you want.

In the end, no matter what a car salesperson says, the customer will not believe them.

One statement about car dealerships trying to make money:

You work to make money to survive. Car salespeople work to make money to survive. Would you work for free? Often when a car salesperson tells you they aren't making much on this deal, they are being serious. Understand they are speaking about their personal wallet and not the dealership's wallet. Not all car sales people make $100k+.... In fact if you look around you'll see they make very little, work crazy hours, and get treated like crap.

Car salespeople are human too... give them a little respect. If they still disrespect you, then leave. Until they do, however, be nice.

I bought my STi for a ridiculous price, but I made friends with my salesguy. We laughed, we had fun... ans I got what was needed. I never lied to him, and he never lied to me.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:13 PM   #17
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I didn't know there was an extended warranty that covered wear and tear items... bet thats pricey.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:35 PM   #18
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i think the internet has revolutionized car buying... its so easy to get 3-4 different dealers to compete against each other with just a few clicks of your mouse.
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:13 PM   #19
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What's wrong with making a profit? If we sell a car for invoice (which most times we do) the dealership makes between $400-$650, depending on the price of the car. That translates into 2% profit. And I get a $75.00 mini commission.

You get raped day in day out with everything you buy. Whether it's an ipod, cheesburger or a new furniture set for you house. You have no problem giving 20%, 30%, even 50% or more profit to these people without thinking twice.

Why are carsalesman scumbags for trying to sell a car @ invoice?
The problem is getting a straight answer... I ask what's the lowest they can sell this car for and they say, "well the best deal I can give you is $24000", so then I say, "well no thanks" then they come back and say, "well just for you, I'll sell it for $23000". Where does it end?
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sential View Post
I ask what's the lowest they can sell this car for and they say, "well the best deal I can give you is $24000", so then I say, "well no thanks" then they come back and say, "well just for you, I'll sell it for $23000". Where does it end?
It ends at published invoice plus options plus delivery, plus advertising fees, less holdback (3-5%), less manufacturer rebates. Plus something for documentation fees, plus sales taxes. And around here, plus Subaru of New England invoice "adjustment".

Doc fees can be negotiated, but in my experience you usually have to be in the process of walking out the door for them to agree to reduce/drop them.

Don't even try to get into their holdback, it's the only profit you're leaving them, especially if you do as much of your own scheduled maintenance as is possible.
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:25 PM   #21
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My opinion when I went shopping for my WRX- sent an email and said, "This is exactly what I want in either of these two colors and this is basically how much I'm willing to pay for it."
This is exactly the method I will use for my next car purchase.

"This is what I have for trade in, and this is what it is valued at and this is what I will accept (provided I don't do a private sale of it first).

This is what I want, and this is what I want to pay for it."

I think I'll work out car loan from the bank if I have to finance it. Going through Chase Automotive last time left a foul taste in my mouth.
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:57 AM   #22
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...Well the problem with that is people need to drive the cars they are planning to buy, to see which one suits them the best. It's the same thing with clothing stores, ever bought a pair of jeans without trying them on? People have to try on their clothes before the buy them.
No one ever said anything about not having dealerships in which you can test drive and then buy the car - but commissioned car salesmen is a profession that should be extinct. Give them the $10/hour that they are worth, and let them do nothing but show you the car around... ofcourse they might have to actually learn about the product that they are selling now... and the price is no-haggle just like the Saturn example that I mentioned before.

And hate to break it to you, but it isn't like buying a pair of jeans. The price of the jeans isn't gonna change (unless on sale) from one customer to another. The Sales Associate isn't gonna try jacking the price and then have the person haggle it down. There is no pressure to add under-coating and if one store is out of jeans, they aren't gonna add a transportation charge to get them from another store.
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
No one ever said anything about not having dealerships in which you can test drive and then buy the car - but commissioned car salesmen is a profession that should be extinct. Give them the $10/hour that they are worth, and let them do nothing but show you the car around... ofcourse they might have to actually learn about the product that they are selling now... and the price is no-haggle just like the Saturn example that I mentioned before.

And hate to break it to you, but it isn't like buying a pair of jeans. The price of the jeans isn't gonna change (unless on sale) from one customer to another. The Sales Associate isn't gonna try jacking the price and then have the person haggle it down. There is no pressure to add under-coating and if one store is out of jeans, they aren't gonna add a transportation charge to get them from another store.

You do realize that the static pricing that Saturn used to have no longer exists because it almost put that division out of business.

Also, do you really think that a car salesperson is any different from any inside or ourside salesperson out there? Reps from all different companies travel to all major stores trying to get that store to sell a product. They make commissions on on their sales, so do all other sales reps for every company out there.

Just so you know... there are plenty of car sales people that make $10/hr if you averaged their overall sales.

I would have to guess a sales person works 50-60hrs a week. Has little to no vacation time, and pretty much no holidays off.

In the end... when it comes to buying a car, it's all a game. The Customer playing a game with the sales person, and the sales person not wanting to lose a possible deal tries to play the customers game.

Think about it for yourself.... You walk into a car dealership and say... what's your best deal on Car X, and I want to trade in Car Y. I want $7500 for Car Y as I have seen it sell for that all over the web, and I want to pay no more than $20,000 on the car.

If the sales person came back with $20k for the car and $7500 for your trade... would you believe that was the best price? NO...

Would you then try to get a better price, and eventually leave thinking the car salesperson was lying? Yup...

No one will ever believe a sales person of any type... so, why would a car salesperson ever really give you the best deal up front?

One last point...

If you ever buy a car from a dealership who settles on a price, and then adds BS fees at the end, or somehow forgot to add taxes... GET UP AND LEAVE... Do not fight it, just go. The worst thing a dealership can do is add garbage at the end of a deal... Never pay for "set-up" or "Delivery" fees, because they don't really exist. They are used as back door methods to make sure there is a profit in every deal.

Also on Documentary Fees. Each state has different laws, and in many states, it is not negotiable, and must either be the same fee for all dealerships in that city or state, or it must be the same exact amount of $$ for each deal. As long as it isn't like $500 or something crazy, just pay it be done.

On a side note... There is too much BS information about buying a car out there. Most of it leads to people being unhappy with their purchase.

My personal recommendation... find a friend or relative who has dealt positively with a dealership and use the same place and same sales guy. It may not lead to the best experience ever, but repeat business is where it's at.
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:50 PM   #24
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^^^^^

You sir, are a gentalman and a scholar!
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
No one ever said anything about not having dealerships in which you can test drive and then buy the car - but commissioned car salesmen is a profession that should be extinct. Give them the $10/hour that they are worth, and let them do nothing but show you the car around... ofcourse they might have to actually learn about the product that they are selling now... and the price is no-haggle just like the Saturn example that I mentioned before.

And hate to break it to you, but it isn't like buying a pair of jeans. The price of the jeans isn't gonna change (unless on sale) from one customer to another. The Sales Associate isn't gonna try jacking the price and then have the person haggle it down. There is no pressure to add under-coating and if one store is out of jeans, they aren't gonna add a transportation charge to get them from another store.
You must be THE most uneducated person on all of NASIOC.
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