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Old 02-11-2007, 09:38 PM   #1
wkw
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Talking 05 LGT 1st/2nd gears in my wrx

My early 2004 wrx transmission (TY754VV5AA) had a bad 1st gear syncro and the 12lb STi flywheel was making all sorts of racket so I decided to do some upgrades and make some changes. I took the plunge and had my mechanic install 1st and 2nd gears from a 2005 legacy gt. He also did some grinding to the bell housing and then installed a balanced oem 6spd clutch and flywheel I had laying around. The last mod was a TurnInConcepts pivot bushing for the shifter. I know that I could have upgraded the 3/4 gear as well but I didn't want to hassle with the whole speedo gear issue. Since I have never been particularly bothered by the wrx 3/4 ratios I just decided to keep the stock gears. I have always HATED the stupid short wrx 1st gear ratio followed by the LOOOOONG jump to 2nd. The switch to the LGT gears has made me a happy suby driver . The car is MUCH more enjoyable and relaxing to drive with the taller and even gear spacing. The LGT 1st gear is about 9% taller than the wrx 1st gear and its just right. The LGT 2nd is only ~3.5% taller than stock 2nd so the jump between them is now shorter. The 1-2 jump is still a tiny bit longer than ideal I suppose but I am pretty satisfied with it. In a perfect world (the one I dream about anyways) there would be a 6spd with V6 RA 1-5 ratios and a nice tall overdrive for 6th in addition to world peace.

parts list:
LGT Mainshaft (1/2/R) 32201AB020
LGT Driven Gear (1st) 32231AA950
LGT Driven Gear (2nd) 32251AA620
Synchro Assy (1st) 32650AA032 (late 04+ transmissions already have this)
Gear and Hub Assembly (1st) 32219AA320 (this part is required for use with the 1st gear 3 piece dual cone syncro. late 04+ transmissions already have this part...)

syncro part numbers for 2nd-5th
2nd gear synchro 32650AA032
3rd gear synchro 32650AA051
4th gear synchro 32614AA131
5th gear synchro 32614AA131
3rd & 4th gear sleeve & hub 32605AA180 <-- This part is now HIGHLY recommended by subaru if you are buying new syncros. They redesigned some of the syncros and this 3/4 hub/sleeve in 2005 to provide smoother shifting. You can no longer buy the older syncros or the old 3/4 hub/sleeve. (there is a TSB about it). I did not know about this part and did not install it. I haven't had any problems yet (as of 6/12/07)

I do not have the part numbers for LGT 3rd, 4th and 5th. I reused my stock parts for those gears.
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Last edited by wkw; 06-12-2007 at 05:41 PM. Reason: added parts list
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Old 02-11-2007, 09:50 PM   #2
wkw
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I forgot to mention: Stefan (Cone Klr) at the local AAMCO did the work with help from a veteran transmission builder with 30 years experience named Phil. Needless to say the transmission works perfectly . aamco seems to get mixed reviews on nasioc but we have a really good aamco here in Eugene, OR.

Last edited by wkw; 06-14-2007 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:03 PM   #3
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You best post a detailed parts list or warning points will flow.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:36 PM   #4
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oh, and stefan put in a fresh batch of uncle scotty's cocktail.

Last edited by wkw; 06-12-2007 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:36 AM   #5
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awesome!!! its nice to see somebody try out my little experiment.

your thoughts of a 6-speed with ra 1-5 with an overdrive 6th is exactly what I'd want too.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:25 AM   #6
FuJi K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie View Post
awesome!!! its nice to see somebody try out my little experiment.

your thoughts of a 6-speed with ra 1-5 with an overdrive 6th is exactly what I'd want too.
The USDM STi 6spd is JUST THAT. 1-5th in the 6spd is really close to the RA 5spd, and yes, the 6th gear also brings down the RPMs some.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
The USDM STi 6spd is JUST THAT. 1-5th in the 6spd is really close to the RA 5spd, and yes, the 6th gear also brings down the RPMs some.
not quite, 1st gear on the 6spd is even shorter than the wrx. I don't like it
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:08 AM   #8
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I knew keaniegenie would see this as he's the originator of this crazy assed idea. Now we have an RA gear solution for a fraction of RA prices. Me thinks there are some hatin' Vendors now, but thems the breaks.

Much love to you folks for the ideas and finally finding out that this idea is workable! I'll update my tranny faq with this later.
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkw View Post
Mainshaft (1/2/R) 32201AB020 $153.02
Driven Gear (1st) 32231AA950 $140.54
Driven Gear (2nd) 32251AA620 $79.24
Synchro Assy (1st) 32650AA032 (late 04+ trannnys already have this) $81.56
Gear and Hub Assembly (1st) 32219AA320 (this part is required for use with the 1st gear 3 piece dual cone syncro. late 04+ transmissions already have this part...) $85.84

I also refreshed all the other syncros but I don't have part numbers handy.

oh, and stefan put in a fresh batch of uncle scotty's cocktail.
Updated with prices from subaruparts.com so we'd have a ballpark on price for parts. Total is $540.19. $600 with shipping. Labor should be between $500-1000 depending on your mechanic. Good work on this.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:16 AM   #10
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Let me PM Jamie and see if we can't get a special deal going on here.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:38 AM   #11
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AWESOME! Somebody did it! Actually, you can use 3rd/4th as well... the LGT 3rd/4th plus any 4.11FD speedo sending unit gear (older legacy, 2.5RS, etc.) will work. Took me almost 4 hours to find a picture of the insides of an LGT gearbox in order to confirm that there is a speedo gear drive in there, but there is, and it's all posted on Keanie's thread.

I'm very glad to see that somebody has done this with good results. You can also get to my 5mt transmission comparison thread through Keanie's LGT trans thread (or a search) and see just how little the difference is between RAs and LGT gears!

Maybe those RA vendors will indeed be crying now that people are figuring out that they can have near/equal to RA-stregnth gears with very usable ratios for well under $1000 (even through dealer parts depts.).

And guess what? If anybody is interested in this swap, just go test drive an LGT and you'll know the EXACT feel of the gear ratios! Go try to find an RA set to test drive... not so easy eh?

Keaniegenie: Kudos on the good idea that started all of this madness.
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:35 AM   #12
wkw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
AWESOME! Somebody did it! Actually, you can use 3rd/4th as well... the LGT 3rd/4th plus any 4.11FD speedo sending unit gear (older legacy, 2.5RS, etc.) will work.
you might want to actually count teeth to make sure its 4.11. if the LGT 3/4 comes from the same parts bin as the V6 STi standard ratio 3/4 wouldn't it need a 4.44 speedo gear?
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Old 02-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #13
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That's fantastic. $372.80 in parts for the upgrade on a late 04+ that hasn't failed/no signs of damage.

Are the LGT gears shot peened or cryo treated? Someone needs to sell the pre-late 04 kit and the late 04+ kit with these processes on them if they're not already done.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:21 PM   #14
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The ratio of the gear on the speedo sending unit is not governed by the splines on the 3rd/4th driven hub. This is determined by the offset and diameter of the gear on just the speedo unit that comes into contact with the driven hub. You can do that with a worm gear. Nifty eh?

--> Here's the kicker... Otherwise, you'd have to change the 3rd/4th driven gears when changing the FD ratio, which would truly be uncool. This is one a few things Subaru thought ahead about in regards to the design of the 5mt.

I seriously doubt the LGT gears are shot peened, and Subaru does not perform a cryo treatment on any factory gears... They may, however, undergo a different heat treatment process than the WRX gears. Not sure That's the vendors who sell RAs that do the cryo. You could however get the cryo treatment done before install. I'd do some research on that if I were you, as the benefits of cryo treatment are somewhat questionable. Funny that no automobile manufacturer (to my knowledge) uses the treatment, and damn near no tool manufacturers use it either. I dare you to go find a "cryo-treated" drill bit at home depot... you won't. Seems like if cryo was so great, it would be used more often in manufacturing. But then again, maybe it's good, who knows.

Last edited by jhargis; 02-12-2007 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:56 PM   #15
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Default Mechanic chiming in here!!

Ditto, I hope I don't receive any death threats from any vendors that offer RA gear sets!! when I break my stock gears (been beating it up with 270 hp for a while now it just won't give). I will probably be doing this build myself, minus the 6 spd clutch, too much weight I have the sti 5spd 11 lb. flywheel and don't mind the noise. p.m. me if anyone wants any specific info. on the build $ (not a vendor so don't want to be banned) there is one minor issue with machining of one gear, we had to flat sand the excess metal on it from the stamping process. it will be different for each gear depending on how well it was made at the factory. I will try to get some pics of it later this week.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:21 PM   #16
wkw
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here are transmission part numbers I got from my local subaru parts dept when I was researching the parts I needed:

10/02-8/03 TY754VV4AA (1 piece 1st gear syncro)
9/03-3/04 TY754VV5AA (1 piece 1st gear syncro)
1/04-5/05 TY754VZ6AA (3 piece dual cone 1st gear syncro)

I didnt get the part number for the 2002 model year (??/01-9/02?) since my transmission is 2004

as you can see there is a 3 month overlap in early 2004 so if your car was built during that period it could have either transmission. Also I am curious about gear fitment on the 2002 and early 2003 transmissions since the gears are allegedly thinner.

Last edited by wkw; 02-12-2007 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:00 PM   #17
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Interesting upgrade. Longer 1st and 2nd with, while retaining the stock 3.9 FD. The spacing sounds good. I have almost the opposite transmission installed. 3.454 and 1.947 1st and 2nd with 4.444 FD. Sometimes I do wish I had a longer 1st gear for tooling around in the subdivision with. Do you find it easy to bog the motor at low speeds?
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:13 PM   #18
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I am curious . . how does this apply to the 2002 wrx? Such an affordable upgrade would be ideal . .
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:44 PM   #19
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^^^ It applies to you too. The LGT gears will fit in any USDM WRX, regardless of model year. Note: Newer MYs actually have this upgraded 1st gear synchro as well, but our 02s have the crappy 1st synchro, so it's not only a gear upgrade for MY02-04 gearboxes, but a synchro upgrade as well.
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:54 PM   #20
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Default Gears?

What was the total cost for this project? And an RA gearset is much less than a PPG gearset. I understand money is a big issue, but skimp on trans parts and it could bite you in the a**. The question is, how HP do you plan on putting to the ground?
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcmahan12 View Post
What was the total cost for this project? And an RA gearset is much less than a PPG gearset. I understand money is a big issue, but skimp on trans parts and it could bite you in the a**. The question is, how HP do you plan on putting to the ground?
with everything I think I spent around ~$1300 including the LGT parts, all new syncros for the rest of the gears and labor. If I had bought the 3/4 gear it would have been more. I will get an exact number tomorrow maybe if I remember.

My primary goal with this build was to make the car less annoying to drive, not to beef up the transmission so it would hold eleventy billion awhp. I won't be going beyond stage 2. I have a nice low mileage 2004 motor from an automatic wrx that was never modded and it runs great. I intend to keep it that way. I have no idea how much hp/torque/shock load/abuse this gearset configuration will withstand and I have no intention of testing it to failure . I won't be dragging/autoxing/tracking it, just driving it to work/school/groceries/suby meets
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:56 PM   #22
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You did'nt happen to take any pictures did you?
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:55 PM   #23
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Default mechanic here

no I was too busy while the trans was being put back together and got back to the bench with the camera only to find out it was all the way back together!!! "Dope"
anyway I will probably be doing this soon in my trans. the 1st synchro is getting sloppy and i might finally break something in it if it all works out. I will be building it completely myself so many many pics will fallow!!
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkw View Post
not quite, 1st gear on the 6spd is even shorter than the wrx. I don't like it
this is what I MEANT to say....
comparing BOTH trannies, 1-5th are really close. YES the STi's 1st gears is 3.636, but it runs a 3.900FD. The RA is a 3.083, yes longer, but the 4.444 makes up for it.

Now if you just look at the gear ratios and diregard the FINAL DRIVE, then ya, the STi's 1st gear is shorter. But I was comparing "TRANNIES" instead w/ there different final drives.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:29 PM   #25
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Well I have been looking around for a faily cost effective gear upgrade and I def dont want the RA gearset. I have been looking at getting the non-RA set for the longer first gear and the stock ratio 5th. My one question is will this "swap" work in a 98RS gearbox? Ive been searching but all I can find is for the late model "turbo" gearboxes. I also did some research on other gearsets and found them to be mostly interchangible, but there was an additional 100 or 150 bucks if you had a push type clutch. Why, Im not sure. So basically what I'm trying to find out is if the LGT gears would be a viable option for me.
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