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Old 12-02-2001, 02:23 AM   #1
moebiusone
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Default VF29 or VF30

Hy, what would you choose between these two turbo's??
I want to go with a VF instead of a PE for the price reason.
thanks
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Old 12-02-2001, 09:11 AM   #2
Darryl
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Thumbs up call Trey Cobb

Cobb Tuning is using the vf 29 in his RT Spec kit. Call Him and ask him why that one versus the 30. He may know the answer you're looking for.
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Old 12-02-2001, 11:07 PM   #3
Fast Reggie
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Default MRT Comments

I had the same question, since so many vendors have the same MRT words explaining the differences. So I CALLED and talked to them at MRT. I also got a few e-mails, including this reply:

On the new MY02 WRX, the VF30 gets excellent results. The VF29 is a much smaller turbo that will give you great results if you drive the car in city traffic all of the time, but will leave you wanting more at high rpm (eg track use or high speed use).

For my street, occasional track use, the VF30 sounded like the better choice for me. Like most modification options, depends on what you want them to do ...
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Old 12-03-2001, 01:20 AM   #4
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I'm not sure of the difference in compressor sizes, turbine trims, maps, and all of that other crap but I do know one difference....

drum roll (he actually knows something for once!)

VF29 = Ball Bearing Turbo
VF30 = Non-Ball Bearing Turbo
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Old 12-03-2001, 10:27 AM   #5
titsataki
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Default

There was a thread I was following and a fellow from doen under posted graphs for the VF29 and insisted that it gives you less top but more middle rpm everyday use punch...

I am not sure about prices PEs are around 1500-1600 and VFs I have seen for 1300-1500... I heard talk about the under 1000 VF but I have nore seen it.


Cheers


T.
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Old 12-03-2001, 10:50 AM   #6
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Gunn has VF30s for 1100 and VF22s for under 1K right now. He's one of the vendors, I saw his post in the classified forums.
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Old 12-03-2001, 11:10 AM   #7
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Default UK boards

Actually, in surfing the UK boards, most of the people on there and in fact several of the vendors in the UK recommend either the VF24 or VF28 turbos, which I believe are both ball bearing and have both been used in production Subaru applications in the past which means they are relatively easy to get.

In fact, both of the big rally car builders in the UK recommend the VF28 turbo for overall best power in the MY01 and up WRX because it offers the most overall power and torque usefulness for a car of this displacement. In fact, I read an article over the weekend which compared the same car with a VF22 (largest compressor available) and a VF28 turbo and the VF28 turbo made almost 75lb/ft more torque between 2000-5000rpm, making the car much more driveable according to the reviewer. I also understand that Scoobysport, who arguably know more about forced induction Subarus than anyone else on the planet, recommends the VF24 turbo for overall driveability, especially torque. From everything I have studied and understood about this series of turbos, the VF29 is too small for any increased performance (it is basically like a ball bearing TD04) and the VF30 is simply a lower tech turbo - not bad, but conventional roller bearing design. Not really suited for increased boost levels on a consistent basis.

I actually have a VF23 on my car, which is a good turbo, but I think a little too large for the WRX application. It is just a little too laggy in the bottom end, which is why I am looking for a VF28 myself.

JaMa
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Old 12-03-2001, 11:14 AM   #8
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The VF30 is a newer tech turbo than any of the ones you mention there. It's not a roller bearing design, the ones you all mention are roller bearing designs, however, and nicely dated 80's tech. The VF30 uses the P17 compressor housing, which is a smaller version from the same family of housings as the P18 used in the PE1818 and PE1820.
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Old 12-03-2001, 11:28 AM   #9
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Default Newer not always better

If its not a roller bearing then what is it? Needle bearing? I have never actually seen the inside of a VF30, but I understand it was made to be "less expensive to mass produce" than the previous line of VF series turbos. It is still a little expensive because it is a new design which has only been used in a limited number of cars. I believe the VF30 was originally designed for the new STi in Japan and was designed with economy and reliability for a ~280hp car over a period of 24-48 months.

I am not sure that newer turbo = better turbo. The VF series turbos have been around a long time, like you said, and there is nothing wrong with any of them except sizing of the two sides of the device. Compressor design is not rocket science, there is nothing magic about it - you just need the right size compressor for your application.

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Old 12-03-2001, 11:49 AM   #10
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I disagree. There is more subtlety to it than just picking out a housing size.

The VF30 is a thrust bearing design, just like the Mitsu turbos. It's designed to be reliable. It outspools a VF22 and flows about the same. Bearings are not bearings. The VF20-29, for example, uses taper roller bearings, definetly not cutting edge.

Newer turbos are, generally speaking, more efficient. In the case of the VF30-class, this continues to be true, and that's what motivates me when I consider them.
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Old 12-03-2001, 11:55 AM   #11
JaMa
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Default numbers

Few questions:

1. Do you have efficiency numbers for the turbos themselves

2. Do you have examples of the different turbos on the cars and how they react - hp and torque figures

3. What do you have on your personal car and why

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Old 12-03-2001, 01:22 PM   #12
Happy
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The VF24/28/29 are nigh on identical, apart from the position the hose it fitted to the actuator. This is because the STi '98's use a three port solenoid, and the '99's a two port.

The rally guys like the small turbo's because they spin up early, and they don't have to worry about flow at high rpm, because of the intake restrictor.

The PE turbo, is simpley a VF hybrid. It pretty much uses the VF BB core, and exhaust housing, with the larger "55" compressor cover, the same cover that is used on the new VF30.

The new VF30 will be much stronger than the older turbo's, and be able to run more boost too.

I've run the VF24, VF22, and a hybrid VF. Running a Link ECU, the VF24 would spool 15psi (1 bar) by 3000rpm, and the VF22 15psi by 3500rpm. Then hit peak boost, 20psi within 300 rpm.

I don't know the info relating to "75ftlbs more to 5000rpm", but it's misleading.

However, I wouldn't recommend the VF22, it may be the biggest, but it's also the weakest. The compressor blades are renouned for parting company with the rest of the turbo, particuarly if you try to run much more than 18~19 psi, or try to spool them up too early (go over the surge line). Mine lasted 2 months at 20 psi...

Happy.
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Old 12-04-2001, 07:12 PM   #13
Black02WRX
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Default Re: UK boards

From everything I have studied and understood about this series of turbos, the VF29 is too small for any increased performance (it is basically like a ball bearing TD04) and the VF30 is simply a lower tech turbo - not bad, but conventional roller bearing design. Not really suited for increased boost levels on a consistent basis.

JaMa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jama,

The VF-29 is a larger torbo than the stock TD04. You can clearly see this by looking at both side by side. All I know is the VF-29 made close to 40hp more than what I had with the stock turbo. Also, there is more lag with the VF-29 than the stocker. The VF-29 is a good compromise between low end response (spool up) and upper end power (which is MUCH improved over stock) even at like boost levels....

James
'02 Midnight Black Subaru Impreza WRX
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12.84 @ 104 mph
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Old 12-04-2001, 07:18 PM   #14
Black02WRX
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Oh, and I forgot to mention..... The VF-29 turbo is rated *up to* 340hp, which unless I'm mistaken, is higher than the "stock" TD04. Some of the bigger turbos might make more power, but for every day use (driveability) and boost response, the VF-29 is an excellent choice!

James
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Old 12-05-2001, 12:33 AM   #15
moebiusone
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Quote:
Some of the bigger turbos might make more power, but for every day use (driveability) and boost response, the VF-29 is an excellent choice!
Thanks, but what about the VF30 for the same usage ??
thanks
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Old 12-05-2001, 09:45 AM   #16
TypeC
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Quote:
Originally posted by Black02WRX
Oh, and I forgot to mention..... The VF-29 turbo is rated *up to* 340hp, which unless I'm mistaken, is higher than the "stock" TD04. Some of the bigger turbos might make more power, but for every day use (driveability) and boost response, the VF-29 is an excellent choice!

James
'02 Midnight Black Subaru Impreza WRX
RT Spec (320hp)
12.84 @ 104 mph

do you have a compressor chart? You can't really judge performance by eye balling a turbo. I'd like to see the chart.

nice times, do you have a slip?(to bench mark).

-C
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Old 12-05-2001, 12:00 PM   #17
Black02WRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC



do you have a compressor chart? You can't really judge performance by eye balling a turbo. I'd like to see the chart.

nice times, do you have a slip?(to bench mark).

-C

No I don't, but I have seen one with various turbos used including the IHI VF-22/23/29/30 TD04/T3-T04 etc.

My performance testing was done with a Stalker Pro radar gun with ATS software (the same system used by all the major magazines). I was in kind of a hurry (due to the chance of Po Po driving by), so all the other data except for 60ft time and 1/8th mile is on my laptop. I also did two 0-60 mph runs....

60ft time: 1.79 seconds
1/8th mile: 8.017 @ 82 mph
1/4 mile: 12.84 @ 104 mph

James
'02 Midnight Black Subaru Impreza WRX
APS/Cobb RT Spec (320hp)
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Old 12-05-2001, 12:20 PM   #18
JaMa
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Default Links and more info

Sorry not to respond for so long - dont check the forums much these days. I am trying to find the links relating to the torque numbers. There is one in particular which is a chart of all of the different production-class Subarus produced in the UK over the past 10 years which compared the VF22,23,24 and 28 turbos and showed how much torque/hp they made on the same car with the same mods. It actually showed the VF22 to be the weakest and the VF28 to be the strongest. Now, like I said, I dont have any personal experience with the VF29 or the VF30, but the guys who I know and trust in the Industry from the UK and Australia tell me not to mess with them. They did say that the PE series turbos (RHF55 hybrids like you said) were a good bet but only if you were planning to build the car for 350+ hp. Otherwise they are more turbo than these cars really need until you build everything else to support them. I would love for someone to post efficiency/rpm numbers - I am working on trying to find that comparison test myself so I will post it when I find it.

JaMa
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Old 12-05-2001, 03:27 PM   #19
JaMa
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Default One Link

Here is one link I found...

http://www.iwoc.co.uk/impspec2.html

Hardly definitive information, but certainly fun to look at...

Looking for the other links...

JaMa
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Old 12-06-2001, 12:10 AM   #20
moebiusone
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Quote:
I dont have any personal experience with the VF29 or the VF30, but the guys who I know and trust in the Industry from the UK and Australia tell me not to mess with them. They did say that the PE series turbos (RHF55 hybrids like you said) were a good bet but only if you were planning to build the car for 350+ hp.
It's funny that Cobb tuning and APS from australia use the VF29 for the stage 2 upgrade and it's only 320hp!! Seems that it's a good turbo with good low-mid torque but less hight hp.
Anyway I'm still looking for some info on the VF30.
I eard that is has less lag the a PE1818 and about the same power !!
please confirm this if anyone knows !!
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