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Old 02-19-2007, 01:14 AM   #1
ToneW
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Question Idle problems/Stuttering and CEL - Need Help!!!

My 2002 TS wagon has been having some trouble lately and I wanted to get some opinions here first before bringing it into the shop. I live in San Jose and don't want to bring it to Steven's Creek, so if anybody can recommend a good shop here in San Jo it would be much appreciated.

With that said, my problem is that the CEL has been coming on lately after driving for awhile on the freeway at speeds ranging from 65-70. The car "stutters" almost like it's misfiring and as soon as I get off the freeway the CEL comes on and then the car will drop to nearly 0 RPM when in neutral.

The car always idles at around 500rpm and sometimes even lower. It has however stalled quite often sitting at a traffic light in neutral and on an incline when entering my garage. I had the idle adjusted to factory specs (or this is what I was told) because that was what the code ran the first time around. I had to bring it back to the same guy a second time because the CEL would still come on and he said he adjusted the idle again. The problem isn't fixed and I'm tired of shelling out money to some mechanic that doesn't know what he is doing...
The CEL codes are:

P0065 and P1507

I've done my research and have found that it could be a dirty IAC valve, so I followed one of the procedures found in the forums and cleaned it out with carb cleaner. I also sprayed the throttle body with carb cleaner, but neither has fixed the problem. The IAC looks fine to me and the electronic connector looks fine as well, but could it just be dead? And is an idle at ~500RPM ok?

Just out of curiosity, I have done some research as to other problems it might be and have found these:

1) check the neutral switch

2) ECT sensor

3) neutral shift positioner

4) Air Assist Injector Solenoid valve (which is in the same line as the IAC)

I've also seen that people have had their ECM's reprogrammed by the dealer due to a recall, but I have never received any notification on that.

Should I check out the #'s listed above? I'd really like to avoid bringing it to the stealership and would prefer to do the work myself.
Any advice or suggestions would be really helpful.

T
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Last edited by ToneW; 02-19-2007 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:43 PM   #2
ToneW
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So, the dealer told me that I need a new IACV . However, they said, it will cost $380 for the part and I said HOLY S***! F* that! Ordered the part from 1stsubaruparts.com for $248 instead, but damn that is still expensive for such a small part. I just hope this fixes the problem as I'm crossing my fingers and "trusting" the mechanics at the dealership. Oh yeah, and by the way....they charged me $240 for a diagnosis along with a key lock fix on the driver's side door. Talk about a rip-off. Why is it so hard to find an honest shop with hardworking mechanics these days that won't give you a bunch of F*ing BS?! I'm seriously sick and tired of people that treat you like dirt when your giving them your money and putting your faith in them to do a good job. I ask, what has happened to all the good people or as Jack Johnson says, "Where'd all the good people go?" If any good soul on this board can recommend a reliable shop in San Jose or close to San Jo, that would be great. I try to do most of the work myself if I can, mainly because I don't trust anybody, but sometimes it's just not feasible to do it yourself. Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:36 AM   #3
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Replaced the IAC valve today with brand new one from 1stsubaruparts and as soon as I turned on the car, the RPM's shot up to 4k and then slowly came down to an idle of around 1500. The CEL came back on and it warmed up to normal temp. with same idle of 1500.
I decided to take it for quick drive then to see if it would somehow reset itself, but it didn't work and i'm still getting the CEL with a fluctuating idle. One really weird thing that it does is when shifting from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th right at 3000 rpm, the car will automatically kick the rpm's up a bit to 3500 or so without any touch of the gas pedal. Is this still related to the idle?
Tomorrow I am going to check the Air Assist Injector Solenoid Valve (damn that's long) since the other CEL code is referring to that.
I'm really surprised nobody has chimed in at this point and I refuse to believe that nobody has had similar codes or problems and has replaced one or the other. I'm getting really frustrated though because I spent $240 on a IAC valve that didn't fix the problem. Thanks Stealership for the incorrect diagnosis! (dealership is Steven's Creek Subaru if your curious). After all the things I've read on here about that dealership, I am kicking myself in the head for actually going there! I am going to call and complain to whoever is in charge over there and oh, I just have to mention that the service guy, "John" hung up on me when I told him I didn't want the parts replaced. Uh huh, you messed with the wrong guy.
Going to run the codes tomorrow, but if anybody has any advice, PLEASE chime in! Thanks.

T

Last edited by ToneW; 02-24-2007 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 02-24-2007, 07:58 AM   #4
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I would say to "hard Reset" the ECU and give the ecu a little time to relearn before writing the IAC valve off. Try to change one part at a time, it gets confussing when you change a part and dont see an instant results that "you" want, a common mistake while trying to diagnose a problem.
Give your ecu time and then after about 300 miles on tank of gas maybe it will settle down, as you seen it did bring your idle up.

Good luck
Jay-R
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Old 02-24-2007, 01:59 PM   #5
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my mom's '03 Outback 2.5L 5mt has a similar problem. sometimes, after she buys gas and she starts driving again, it'll shudder a little and throw an engine misfire code. sometimes it'll just randomly shudder and throw the engine misfire code. and sometimes when she rolls up to a stop with the clutch in it'll just stall for no apparent reason. the dealership has no idea what's wrong with it. they cleaned the throttle body but that didn't help. i think the dealership said it might have something to do with the IAC valve. but they're stumped. and they charge like $30 just to clear the code, so now she just drives it til it auto resets but it comes back every now and then.

Last edited by safetyfast1500; 02-24-2007 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #6
ToneW
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Thanks for the responses. Jay-R, I'm going to give it some time like you said and see if clears on it's own, but I think i'll check the Air Assist Injector Solenoid Valve just to see if there is anything wrong there. The code actually disappeared today for a little while which leads me to believe that it is not a hard code. The idle also dropped back down to around 500rpms and stays there once warm. Maybe that's a little low? I know i can easily adjust the idle, but do you think it's necessary? I don't know what the correct idle would be for this car...
Anyways, I feel like it's not a huge problem that I have, but want to get it resolved. Thanks again for the input and if anybody has anything else they could offer up, please do.

T
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:06 PM   #7
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700 is normal for idle. it's about 2 notches above the bottom, the tach starts at 500.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:22 AM   #8
ToneW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrgh View Post
700 is normal for idle. it's about 2 notches above the bottom, the tach starts at 500.
Yeah, my idle now is around 700 so, I guess i'm good on that. My car has been idling better now, however, I got the CEL again today and ran the code again. At first the codes were, P1507 and P0507, but then after clearing those and running it a second time, the only code that popped up was the P1507. I know this has to do with the IAC, but since i've already replaced that with a new one, I'm assuming I should look elsewhere. I've seen that some people have had the P1507 code for a neutral switch, so should I check that next? The CEL P0065 is gone, even though I didn't touch the air assist injector solenoid. What do you guys think? I really want to keep this thread going and get more opinions.
How to I go about checking the Neutral Switch and how do I know if it's bad?

T
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:34 PM   #9
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Bump. Any thoughts?
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:40 PM   #10
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Posted all of my thoughts already. Im going to sleep on this one.

I was hoping it wouldnt come back for you.

Jay-R
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:43 AM   #11
ToneW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr View Post
Posted all of my thoughts already. Im going to sleep on this one.

I was hoping it wouldnt come back for you.

Jay-R
Yeah, unfortunately it did come back.... I hate to be all across the board on my problem, but seeing as the prob. is intermittent and not your "normal" run of the mill issue, I'm trying to throw out as much info. as I can to get a few different opinions. I know that many people on this forum know their *hit so even if I bring it to a mechanic who knows Subaru's he may not know what to do either. I want to come up with as many possibilities for the problem as I can in order to give a mechanic or myself somewhere to look.

I have to mention though, yesterday when I filled up the tank from being close to empty (filled her up until it clicked and didn't top off) as soon as I started driving the car stuttered like it does sometimes almost as if it was misfiring or not getting enough gas. The feeling is really strange, but it feels as if the car lunges or jerks slightly. It's not a HUGE "stutter" but definitely noticeable. The car didn't throw a CEL though interestingly enough. It usually will only throw the code after trips on the freeway just when getting off and the RPM's drop. Around town, I usually don't get a code and usually shift around 3,000. I'm easy on the pedal for the most part.

Just thought I'd throw that out there and mention that I did a search on "stuttering" and found that one guy had the same problem after filling up but he would top it off. Also something about a bad cannister, but I really don't see how that could come into play here since the code is for the idle system.

With that said, I'm still thinking it could be the neutral switch since I've read some people have fixed the P1507 code after replacing the neutral switch. I believe it is on the tranny? And can be tested with a voltage meter? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, I'm not going to give up on my car so I'll keep this thread going....

T
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:44 AM   #12
ToneW
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Wanted to give this thread a bump since my problem is still not resolved....Also wanted to note that I've heard of a few people having the P1507 code for a bad neutral switch. Any ideas on where this part is or how to see if it is bad?

T
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Old 03-25-2007, 06:06 AM   #13
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Ok, bump again on this thread. Since my problem still has not been fixed, I've done more research and looking back at my service history the whole CEL thing started after trying to locate my MAF sensor one day, which led me to pull off a couple of senors and re-installing them. The CEL came on immediately after re-installing the parts and I brought it to a local mechanic who told me I put one of the parts on backwards. Go figure. So, from his service record, it says that he the idle speed was open and the valve was very dirty which he cleaned. He also removed the idle valve, adjusted the resistor lever, and re-installed the TPS and adjusted to factory spec. I'm thinking that all my problems have stemmed from this adjustment of the TPS because I've read numerous times on here to NOT adjust the TPS since they are very sensitive. Could a TPS adjustment be all I need?!?! After all the parts I've replaced, etc. to no avail???

Like I've said before, my main problem is the idle dropping to zero once in awhile and then bouncing back up to normal, but throwing the P1507 CEL in the process. I have a neutral switch on order and am going to replace it, since I read that this part can go bad and cause the problem, but I'm thinking that it has to do with a TPS problem because I never had any of these problems until brining it to this guy and having him set the TPS to what he said were "factory specs."

Any ideas or advice?? Please help here guys, anything would be appreciated, as I refuse to have a CEL on and continue to drive it like this. My friends tell me to sell it, but I say hell no!


Tone

Last edited by ToneW; 03-25-2007 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 03-25-2007, 08:24 AM   #14
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hey bro you sound like me when i had my old rs. i had the same problem and it was throwing the same codes. its not the iac valve i made that same mistake. my problem was caused by a bad 02 sensor. make sure you have them checked. i gaurantee u that is it.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:09 AM   #15
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I had the same issue, but mine was caused by my cylinder 2 spark plug tip snapping off, causing a serious misfire. I doubt that's your issue though.
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:19 AM   #16
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I have had the same exact scenerio 01 2.5 automatic Forester for almost a year and 10,000 miles. The car has 45k total miles. The problem would come and go.

I cleaned the intake and IAC several times, but the problem returns. Just last week the car wouldn't start at all!!!!!!! I have checked all of the other things mentioned and the vacuum lines, and the problem returned.

What I have found it that the inhibitor switch (nuetral safety switch has failed). I have checked the continuity from the key switch all the way to the plug that hooks on to the switch and it is ok. I checked the continuity from the plug to the starter and it is ok. But continuity through the switch is not there. I also found out that an intermittent failure of the safety switch may have been causing my idle problems all along. Will replace on Friday and see if it cures the idle.

I have been told that the signal involved from this switch is used to do more then just prevent you from starting in gear. It is also used by the computer control systems and changing the timing and idle during different situations and this will cause idle problems.
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Old 03-31-2007, 04:13 PM   #17
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Fixed the switch, but still have random idle issues. I pushed the connector in and wiggled it on the IAC selenoid connection and it dropped to normal. But it came back. I know the problem is in a poor connection because if I wiggle the connection it returns to normal.

I'm not sure how to get a better connection, or how to get it to stop doing this?????

I'm going to try and clean it out again and then put a little dielectric grease on the female side and see if this helps?
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Old 04-09-2007, 07:58 AM   #18
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Removed Idle Air Control Selenoid....Cleaned and reinstalled....Idle works perfectly now.
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:38 PM   #19
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Well, I finally replaced the Neutral Safety Switch and I have been driving the car around for about a week now with no CEL and no idle problems. I've been crossing my fingers and hoping that this fixed the problem, which I think it has. I'll repost in a couple weeks for another update.

T
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 356cab View Post
Removed Idle Air Control Selenoid....Cleaned and reinstalled....Idle works perfectly now.
Where is this located at and do you have pictures? I search the boards and found nothing... My idle is acting up and I want to try this.

Thanks,
-Nigel
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:08 AM   #21
ToneW
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Just to let everybody know who has been following this thread, my idle problems have NOT returned and it's been a few months now! If anybody has had similar issues as mine I strongly suggest that you take a look at the neutral safety switch. It's a cheap part (about $30) and seems to be something that people overlook while troubleshooting.

Tone
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneW View Post
Just to let everybody know who has been following this thread, my idle problems have NOT returned and it's been a few months now! If anybody has had similar issues as mine I strongly suggest that you take a look at the neutral safety switch. It's a cheap part (about $30) and seems to be something that people overlook while troubleshooting.

Tone
Yeah, prolly will replace mine as well- as this is the 2d IACV I have had on the car PLUS cleaning the already clean valve assy. didn't clear my CEL nor my idle issues. Do you have a P/N for the neutral position switch? If I had a voltmeter, the switch can be tested for ohm resistance to see if it is bad- but for $30, I'll replace it
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:07 AM   #23
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so where is the Idle Air Control Selenoid located on Imprezas. Pref. 2002 RS
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:04 AM   #24
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im having the same problems with my car now too !

i think its the NSS too
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Old 06-28-2009, 02:56 PM   #25
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What I'm confused on is why the heck the nss all cause this. It's basicly an on/off switch. Well on every car I've worked on before... Subarus use them more then just a safetey device???
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