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Old 02-19-2007, 12:56 PM   #1
pmbassist
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Default Head bolt actual torques? Has anybody measured this?

Hello, I've done some searching but all i'm finding for head bolt torques are what the haynes manual gives you. I'm wondering if anyone has measured what the torque is when you "turn all bolts right 90*" and "turn all bolts right 90*" again. I've just replaced the head gaskets on my EJ22 (non-turbo) and it was leaking a little stream of oil on the driver's side front near the head gasket. I suspect I've torqued things down incorrectly, maybe too much. I don't want to have to pull everything apart again but there is very little space to work with and I'd rather just use my torque wrench for the final tightening. Thanks for the help!
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Last edited by pmbassist; 02-19-2007 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:53 PM   #2
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The degree of final torquing is designed in. If you're leaking a little steam, I would suspect that one of the surfaces has some gasket material left over from the old gasket.

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Old 02-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #3
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The degrees you turn the bolt is to stretch it. Head bolts in most modern engines are torque to yield(ones with crazy torque sequences and degrees) You probably botched it on the install and no amount of retorquing can save ya now. Probably gonna have to tear it down again.
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:10 PM   #4
pmbassist
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Crap! that's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the replies. I knew I should've gotten new bolts. Since i'm moving into an apartment looks like it'll have to sit for the next 6 months till I buy a house. Unless you know of any way I could make it work for ~10,000 miles. I'm considering a new motor at this point anyways, I think I've fuxored the block and heads. Too bad since the honing marks were still showing in the block.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:15 PM   #5
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I wouldn't condemn anything until you find out exactly where the leaks are coming from. It's standard practice to re use Subaru headbolts, unlike other makes of motors that require new bolts at every service. That said, one of the bolts (upper right corner, iirc) goes into a coolant jacket and gets pretty corroded over time. If it's not clean and well oiled on assembly, the torque values will be off on the low side and can be contributing to the leaks. Other than that, if the job was done in the car...it's a PIA to get every last bit of gasket material off the block before putting the new stuff on....this will definately cause a bad seal.


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Old 02-20-2007, 06:37 PM   #6
pmbassist
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Definitely agreeing with you on the extra head gasket material. I retorqued it last night and managed to make enough space to torque it properly. after a few seconds of idling, there was a small stream of oil coming from the front bottom headgasket area. I can tell from the sound of the engine the driver side rockers aren't getting anyoil. Since I don't have the time left for another full tear-down I'm going to see if I can do a temporary fix with some rtv gasket.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:37 AM   #7
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I can almost guarantee it'll be a temporary fix. I would be very concerned about further problems from a lack of oil pressure.

If there's any way to make the time to get back in there...I would suggest to just do it and get it over with so nothing else goes wrong.


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Old 02-21-2007, 10:46 AM   #8
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Not sure I am understanding what you're saying. You see a stream of oil coming from the headgasket area and last night you managed to torque the head bolts again? If you removed the timing belt and the camshafts to retorque the headbolts then why didn't you just remove the head?.. My assumption is you're talking about the valve cover leaking?.. Get new valve cover gaskets.

Anyone else agree with me?
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:52 AM   #9
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I'm sorry I was thinking about the 2.5L DOHC...
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:40 AM   #10
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I suspect that you may have flipped the head gasket and it's on backwards. Pull it off again and check it.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:10 PM   #11
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Thank you for the replies. The other night I simply loosened and retorqued the head bolts with everything else together. The head gasket will only go on one way, otherwise the channel in the upper front won't line up. The valve cover gaskets I did replace when I replaced the head gaskets. It's not a high-pressure stream that's leaking, more like when you cut yourself deep and it goes drip, drip drip. Unless anyone has had a really bad experience doing this i'm going to loosen the bolts this weekend, break the seal on the head gasket, pull it out maybe 5mm and apply rtv sealant to both sides of the head gasket. Retorque to factory specs and let it sit for 24 hours. It would be good if I could drive this for the next 6 months, but if it'll at least go the 50 miles to my new place I'll be satisfied.
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:52 AM   #12
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If its just leaking a lil bit, drive it to your new place and fix it there, If you do what you talking about you will be leaking coolant and oil and probably not have comppresion either. Fix it correctly then there wil be no worries.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:45 AM   #13
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Head bolts are NOT torqued to yield but, only stretched/distorted. If torqued to yield then the torque value will drop significantly and you will have leaks. You should be able to reuse bolts UNLESS over torqued to the yield point. So to be safe always use new bolts since we don't know their history. I think in this case you need to redo the job i.e. remove heads and check for cleaness on the mating surfaces, check gaskets, new head bolts and torqued in the recomended sequence & torque at each step in the recomended procedure. Sorry but, consider this a learning experience and you will be the expert giving advice next time. Ed
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayes View Post
Head bolts are NOT torqued to yield but, only stretched/distorted. If torqued to yield then the torque value will drop significantly and you will have leaks. You should be able to reuse bolts UNLESS over torqued to the yield point. So to be safe always use new bolts since we don't know their history. I think in this case you need to redo the job i.e. remove heads and check for cleaness on the mating surfaces, check gaskets, new head bolts and torqued in the recomended sequence & torque at each step in the recomended procedure. Sorry but, consider this a learning experience and you will be the expert giving advice next time. Ed
Definitely a learning experience! The advantage is now it only takes 1/2 the time to tear down and build up because I'm more accustomed to the layout.

I'll be buying a house in 6 months, at that point I'll be able to put the engine on a stand and take care of this at my leisure. I think that'd be the best route. I'll replace everything at that point and do a full rebuild.
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Old 02-22-2007, 12:42 PM   #15
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I would not put anything between the block and the head other than the head gasket. Do not put RTV in there. It will space the head and block further apart and cause less of a seal and more problems.

There must be some old gasket or something keeping it from sealing completely.

I know you don't want to hear it but I really think RTV will make it worse.

Peace,

Greg
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