Bob Lutz Explains Why The Pontiac GTO Failed

NYCshopper · 02-21-2007, 10:24 AM

Bob Lutz Explains Why The Pontiac GTO Failed

http://news.windingroad.com/videos/b...ac-gto-failed/

Quote:

In a new video on Automotive News, Bob Lutz discusses why the Pontiac GTO (2003-2006) failed in North America. The video was taped weeks ago at the Chicago Auto Show.

Regarding the GTO’s failure, Lutz says:

- “it was arguably past its best-buy date in terms of styling. When we brought it in, that basic styling configuration in the market…for close to seven or eight years. If you bring in a car, it should be in the beginning of its design cycle.”
- “We overpriced it.”
- “We maldistributed it. We based distribution on historic Pontiac sales…it turned out that was completely wrong.”

Click through for more on what Lutz said about Pontiac’s new G8

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../70212001/1151

Lutz reports that the G8 will be in showrooms in the beginning of 2008 as a 2009 model. He also says the G8 and Grand Prix will be sold together for some time. Pricing will be “where the Dodge Magnum is” both for the V-6 and V-8 models.

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darknightohio · 02-21-2007, 10:39 AM

The G8 is basically the same forumla

Maybe the 4 doors and v-6 option will boost sales.

jsalicru · 02-21-2007, 10:45 AM

yeah, true, but its got fresh and, IMO, much better styling... which MIGHT help.

Chris_Lee · 02-21-2007, 11:24 AM

Nobody wants a car that looks like a Mary Kay give away. They should dig out the old 68 blue prints and revamp it to modern standards. They would sell like no other GTO ever did. The old grand am style is just ugly.

Yotsuya · 02-21-2007, 11:37 AM

Overpriced; so where will the G8 come in?

Here's to hoping they ape the GTO concept and drop the V8 into a stripper.

The G8 looked nice at the Chicago auto show, but they had a model of the V6 and the first thing I noticed was the manifold would have to be removed to change the spark plugs.

aschen · 02-21-2007, 12:24 PM

I feel for car companies. The GTO failed because the general car buy is teh stupid. The Mustang is selling like hot kakes because of its looks while the gto is/was better in every way and nearly the same price thanks to discounts.

DohcVtec · 02-21-2007, 12:27 PM

this guy at my work just paid like 34 grand for one this week. No wonder why you never see these things on the road.

RBelcher00 · 02-21-2007, 12:30 PM

34 is WaaaaaaaaayYY too much.

grzydj · 02-21-2007, 01:25 PM

The GTO looked like a fat Caviler and was outdated when it was penned over a decade ago.

I think that the G8 will perform and sell much better.

subarugt · 02-21-2007, 02:24 PM

It got great reviews by everyone that had tested it. The styling was always the hold back. The Pontiac trademark has become a turd do to all the crap they designed in the 80's and 90's. If Pontiac is to be GMs performance division they need to toss all the current cars and rebuild them with style, performance and precision. 2 of the 3 does not win Bob O.

Man I wish I could run one of the US auto companies and fire all the Redneck designers and managers.

sential · 02-21-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subarugt

It got great reviews by everyone that had tested it. The styling was always the hold back. The Pontiac trademark has become a turd do to all the crap they designed in the 80's and 90's. If Pontiac is to be GMs performance division they need to toss all the current cars and rebuild them with style, performance and precision. 2 of the 3 does not win Bob O.

Man I wish I could run one of the US auto companies and fire all the Redneck designers and managers.

They should have just brought it over and not changed anything but the badges... Yeah the design "language" would have been different than other pontiacs, but it could have been their 'halo' car, which doesn't always have to completely follow the "design language" of the brand. The pontiac grill killed it... the monaro bumper and grill looked so much better...

The second thing they should have done was named it anything other than the GTO...

Mavrik · 02-21-2007, 03:03 PM

It was ugly... it was never sold in Canada... way over priced anyway... plenty of better looking competition out there...

Had it been sold in the US and Canada and more retro designed as opposed to looking like a 2 door grand am... it might have done better.

onelove221 · 02-21-2007, 03:13 PM

I cross shopped a GTO with my STi.

You could never find one in my area. And the 6-speeds were even rarer.

I agree with whoever it was who said they should have brougt it over as is, without adding the stupid Pontiac grille.

That being said, it's a nice car that's pretty fast for the money - all the modded ones I see at the track are almost frighteningly quick.

I like to think of the GTO as a two door Cadillac CTS-V.

Maybe the next one will do better.

drees · 02-21-2007, 03:15 PM

If I was in the market for a 2-door American car with a big V8, the goat would have been one of my first choices. I actually like the styling, it makes a great sleeper!

DJJ · 02-21-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschen

I feel for car companies. The GTO failed because the general car buy is teh stupid. The Mustang is selling like hot kakes because of its looks while the gto is/was better in every way and nearly the same price thanks to discounts.

Couldn't agree more with your statement. I still am a fan of the GTO and see them going for low 20's with only a few thousand miles on the clock.

Layman · 02-21-2007, 04:32 PM

Overpriced? It was a bargin!

The exterior styling was really the only flaw with that car.

Hazdaz · 02-21-2007, 05:45 PM

This is great news though....

I think he hit the nail on the head as to WHY it failed... which if GM really has changed, that gives me great hope that they won't repeat it... which to me means that both the G8 and the Camaro will be priced VERY aggresively. Also while I do think the G8 is not as radically styled as it should have been, it also isn't exactly bland either - it definitely is a very handsome sedan in my book. And ofcourse the new Camaro is smokin hot, so I don't see a repeat of the problems that the GTO had.

SoDealer · 02-21-2007, 05:48 PM

Why did the car fail?

People are willing to look past a lot of faults if the styling sets their hearts a flutter. The GTO should have been retro styled. The Challenger has everyone hot to trot on styling alone... and the Mustang's big win was on styling. If the GTO wasn't going to be a retro styled, modern interpretation of the old Goat... then why bother?

Chromer · 02-21-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoDealer

The GTO should have been retro styled.

It was. The problem is that early 90's car styling just isn't in vogue yet. Give it 30 years...

SoDealer · 02-21-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsalicru

yeah, true, but its got fresh and, IMO, much better styling... which MIGHT help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromer

It was. The problem is that early 90's car styling just isn't in vogue yet. Give it 30 years...

lol

BlownbyMaggie · 02-21-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBelcher00

34 is WaaaaaaaaayYY too much.

Yes, 34K....he got ripped a new one if he paid that...My friend just picked up a new 06 GTO automatic for $28K OTD

Quote:

Originally Posted by grzydj

The GTO looked like a fat Caviler and was outdated when it was penned over a decade ago.

I think that the G8 will perform and sell much better.

I agree with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelove221

I cross shopped a GTO with my STi.

You could never find one in my area. And the 6-speeds were even rarer.

I agree with whoever it was who said they should have brougt it over as is, without adding the stupid Pontiac grille.

That being said, it's a nice car that's pretty fast for the money - all the modded ones I see at the track are almost frighteningly quick.

I like to think of the GTO as a two door Cadillac CTS-V.

Maybe the next one will do better.

You throw some basic boltons on my car....and yes they are quite fast. They will surprise people in the curves too. Not a Subaru owner, but the general public with a good driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drees

If I was in the market for a 2-door American car with a big V8, the goat would have been one of my first choices. I actually like the styling, it makes a great sleeper!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layman

Overpriced? It was a bargin!

The exterior styling was really the only flaw with that car.

I agree, here is what you have to do to make it look better...

(I would post pics, but I am a noob)

daveyboy · 02-21-2007, 10:22 PM

I actually like the GTO. Great interior, good performance (its a little portly), and it doesn't scream I AM A RICER! like the Evo and STi do. I for one hope that the new STI hatch is sedate or that a real STI legacy is offered. Since the price has dropped so much on the GTO, I went and test drove one--and enjoyed the drive.

BlownbyMaggie · 02-21-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveyboy

I actually like the GTO. Great interior, good performance (its a little portly), and it doesn't scream I AM A RICER! like the Evo and STi do. I for one hope that the new STI hatch is sedate or that a real STI legacy is offered. Since the price has dropped so much on the GTO, I went and test drove one--and enjoyed the drive.

GM screwed up by advertiseing the 05's when there were still 04's still on the lot...

04=no hood scoops
05=hood scoops

So everyone just waited for the 05's to come out and a bunch of 04's just sat on the lot

Interior is the best part about these cars....

I wish they would have just switched out the Holden badges for Pontiac ones and called it a day....but GM decided to f*ck up a perfectly awesome Monaro and call it a GTO.

US2JDM · 02-21-2007, 10:43 PM

w0w...was an explanation really necessary? If Lutz feels it was, that tells you a lot right there.

mxboy15u · 02-21-2007, 10:53 PM

Price...it needs to be below 27k for it to compete. Strip it gut it whatever, make it into a true musclecar and get it affordable.

02-21-2007, 12:27 PM	#7
DohcVtec Scooby Specialist Member#: 139314 Join Date: Jan 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: MASS	damn this guy at my work just paid like 34 grand for one this week. No wonder why you never see these things on the road.

02-21-2007, 05:45 PM	#17
Hazdaz Scooby Guru Member#: 14611 Join Date: Jan 2002	This is great news though.... I think he hit the nail on the head as to WHY it failed... which if GM really has changed, that gives me great hope that they won't repeat it... which to me means that both the G8 and the Camaro will be priced VERY aggresively. Also while I do think the G8 is not as radically styled as it should have been, it also isn't exactly bland either - it definitely is a very handsome sedan in my book. And ofcourse the new Camaro is smokin hot, so I don't see a repeat of the problems that the GTO had. Last edited by Hazdaz; 02-21-2007 at 05:52 PM.

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02-21-2007, 10:39 AM	#2
darknightohio Scooby Specialist Member#: 50523 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Virginia Vehicle: 2010 GTI United Gray	The G8 is basically the same forumla Maybe the 4 doors and v-6 option will boost sales.

02-21-2007, 10:45 AM	#3
jsalicru Scooby Specialist Member#: 58031 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin, TX	yeah, true, but its got fresh and, IMO, much better styling... which MIGHT help.

02-21-2007, 11:24 AM	#4
Chris_Lee Scooby Specialist Member#: 110667 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Chesapeake, VA Vehicle: 2006 WRX	Nobody wants a car that looks like a Mary Kay give away. They should dig out the old 68 blue prints and revamp it to modern standards. They would sell like no other GTO ever did. The old grand am style is just ugly.

02-21-2007, 11:37 AM	#5
Yotsuya Scooby Guru Member#: 935 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: ಠ_ృ Vehicle: Tony Pond Fan Club	Overpriced; so where will the G8 come in? Here's to hoping they ape the GTO concept and drop the V8 into a stripper. The G8 looked nice at the Chicago auto show, but they had a model of the V6 and the first thing I noticed was the manifold would have to be removed to change the spark plugs.

02-21-2007, 12:24 PM	#6
aschen Scooby Specialist Member#: 30733 Join Date: Dec 2002 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston texas Vehicle: 2007 tiny car striped	I feel for car companies. The GTO failed because the general car buy is teh stupid. The Mustang is selling like hot kakes because of its looks while the gto is/was better in every way and nearly the same price thanks to discounts.

02-21-2007, 12:30 PM	#8
RBelcher00 Scooby Specialist Member#: 100829 Join Date: Nov 2005 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Corona, CA Vehicle: 2006 WRX R.I.P. =( '07 CBR600RR =)	34 is WaaaaaaaaayYY too much.

02-21-2007, 01:25 PM	#9
grzydj Scooby Specialist Member#: 84984 Join Date: Apr 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota Vehicle: 2006 Impreza 2.5i 5D '04 Toyota Tacoma TRD	The GTO looked like a fat Caviler and was outdated when it was penned over a decade ago. I think that the G8 will perform and sell much better.

02-21-2007, 02:24 PM	#10
subarugt Scooby Specialist Member#: 11053 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Hobo, NJ Vehicle: 99 Legacy GT LTD Rio Red	It got great reviews by everyone that had tested it. The styling was always the hold back. The Pontiac trademark has become a turd do to all the crap they designed in the 80's and 90's. If Pontiac is to be GMs performance division they need to toss all the current cars and rebuild them with style, performance and precision. 2 of the 3 does not win Bob O. Man I wish I could run one of the US auto companies and fire all the Redneck designers and managers.

02-21-2007, 03:03 PM	#12
Mavrik Scooby Guru Member#: 90347 Join Date: Jul 2005 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Anchorage AK Vehicle: 2013 BRZ & Imp 2.5RS Yamaha FZ8	It was ugly... it was never sold in Canada... way over priced anyway... plenty of better looking competition out there... Had it been sold in the US and Canada and more retro designed as opposed to looking like a 2 door grand am... it might have done better.

02-21-2007, 03:13 PM	#13
onelove221 Scooby Newbie Member#: 118781 Join Date: Jun 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Washington, DC Vehicle: 2005 Cadillac CTS-V Laser Red	I cross shopped a GTO with my STi. You could never find one in my area. And the 6-speeds were even rarer. I agree with whoever it was who said they should have brougt it over as is, without adding the stupid Pontiac grille. That being said, it's a nice car that's pretty fast for the money - all the modded ones I see at the track are almost frighteningly quick. I like to think of the GTO as a two door Cadillac CTS-V. Maybe the next one will do better.

02-21-2007, 03:15 PM	#14
drees Scooby Specialist Member#: 25905 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego, CA Vehicle: 2003 Silver Wagon Tuned with Enginuity	If I was in the market for a 2-door American car with a big V8, the goat would have been one of my first choices. I actually like the styling, it makes a great sleeper!

02-21-2007, 04:32 PM	#16
Layman Scooby Specialist Member#: 3717 Join Date: Jan 2001 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Army of Northern Virginia Vehicle: MKV GTI - tite! bikes with pedals	Overpriced? It was a bargin! The exterior styling was really the only flaw with that car.

02-21-2007, 05:48 PM	#18
SoDealer Scooby Specialist Member#: 67960 Join Date: Aug 2004	Why did the car fail? People are willing to look past a lot of faults if the styling sets their hearts a flutter. The GTO should have been retro styled. The Challenger has everyone hot to trot on styling alone... and the Mustang's big win was on styling. If the GTO wasn't going to be a retro styled, modern interpretation of the old Goat... then why bother?

02-21-2007, 10:22 PM	#22
daveyboy Scooby Specialist Member#: 35419 Join Date: Apr 2003	I actually like the GTO. Great interior, good performance (its a little portly), and it doesn't scream I AM A RICER! like the Evo and STi do. I for one hope that the new STI hatch is sedate or that a real STI legacy is offered. Since the price has dropped so much on the GTO, I went and test drove one--and enjoyed the drive.

02-21-2007, 10:43 PM	#24
US2JDM Scooby Guru Member#: 5893 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: E. Canada Location: Fairport, NY Vehicle: 1997 Black GC4 1995 White BK6	w0w...was an explanation really necessary? If Lutz feels it was, that tells you a lot right there.

02-21-2007, 10:53 PM	#25
mxboy15u Scooby Specialist Member#: 105115 Join Date: Jan 2006	Price...it needs to be below 27k for it to compete. Strip it gut it whatever, make it into a true musclecar and get it affordable.