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Old 02-21-2007, 11:33 AM   #1
thejean
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Default Yep, another "Name That Noise" thread

So, my S2 block is back in and seems to be running fine. Yes, I have some pronounced piston noise but I was expecting that. The noise that worries me most is an almost imperceptible whine coming from the front of the engine. The noise goes away when the engine is warm. And, it doesn't even start right away when cold. Takes a bout a minute or two before it starts and then goes away once the engine is warm. This noise is accompanied by a slight (very faint) metallic rattiling from the PS-pump to A/C area (as best I can tell) that doesn't go away when the engine warms up.

During the build I removed the PS lines and A/C lines (before I realized you can just move them out of the way). So, my A/C needs recharging. PS area seems to have a little leak as well. I put the V belts on pretty tight (and they are old) with about 1/4" slack at most. I also used a new STI timing belt and a the old tensioner (checked out OK).

Anyway, any thoughts? My steering feels fine (even though my fluid is low). Could the uncharged A/C cause a noise like this? Do timing belts whine a little when new? All help/opinions appreciated.

Cheers, JC
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Last edited by thejean; 02-23-2007 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:49 PM   #2
sjl1614
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Try taking off the belts one at a time, start the engine and see if there is a difference.
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:51 PM   #3
thejean
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^^^Thanks, I'll try that this evening on the A/C belt. Don't think I can start the car without the alternator though... not 100% sure?
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:51 PM   #4
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On a side note, NEVER reuse a tensioner.
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:54 PM   #5
thejean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooln04 View Post
On a side note, NEVER reuse a tensioner.
Why, if it still has lots of pressure, why would it be bad to reuse? If piston slap gets too bad then change it by all means but if not, what is the big deal? I mean, the thing never gave me problems on my other engine so why would it be bad to use all of a sudden? Not saying you're wrong, but before spending an extra $250, I'd like to know if I'm throwing my money away.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
Why, if it still has lots of pressure, why would it be bad to reuse? If piston slap gets too bad then change it by all means but if not, what is the big deal? I mean, the thing never gave me problems on my other engine so why would it be bad to use all of a sudden? Not saying you're wrong, but before spending an extra $250, I'd like to know if I'm throwing my money away.


If you are spending thousands of dollars on a built motor, you can't spend 200 on a new tensioner? That makes sense. It only keeps the motor in time. Thats not important is it?

Also, you should run a non-stretch timing belt, like a Greddy or a PE. We've seen the stock STI belt stretch and throw the timing off by 1/2-1 Degree.

But hey, what do I know.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:16 PM   #7
thejean
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I thank you for your advice and am not trying to imply you don't know what you're talking about but to go and do the tensioner right now will be a PITA. If the old tensioner is perfectly fine then why would you bother? My old one nearly bent the alen key in two when I released the vice so it still had lots of pressure in it from what I could tell.

I thought STI belts were reinforced? And if they stretch a little, won't the tensioner make up that difference?
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
I thank you for your advice and am not trying to imply you don't know what you're talking about but to go and do the tensioner right now will be a PITA. If the old tensioner is perfectly fine then why would you bother? My old one nearly bent the alen key in two when I released the vice so it still had lots of pressure in it from what I could tell.

I thought STI belts were reinforced? And if they stretch a little, won't the tensioner make up that difference?

Yea I'm not saying to replace the tensioner now, that wouldn't make much sense, just for future knowledge.

As for your orginal questions.- Some AC compessors are noisy, so it could possibly be that. As for your PS leak, the bango bolt needs to be TIGHT. Also, topping off your PS fluid, and turning the wheel back and forth many times. This will essentially bleed the system.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
^^^Thanks, I'll try that this evening on the A/C belt. Don't think I can start the car without the alternator though... not 100% sure?
The car will start, run, and even put down some quarter mile passes with all those belts removed (except the timing belt lol). Seen it done.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:51 PM   #10
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Good info fellas. Thanks!
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooln04 View Post
Also, you should run a non-stretch timing belt, like a Greddy or a PE. We've seen the stock STI belt stretch and throw the timing off by 1/2-1 Degree.

But hey, what do I know.
Interesting... My engine builder wanted me to stick with a stock STi unit when i asked about those belts...
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:44 PM   #12
thejean
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^^^Same here. Thing is, the PE and Greddy's don;t have tick marks on them so lining up the STI belt is a little easier for the newb. I'd hate to do something like that wrong.
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejean View Post
^^^Same here. Thing is, the PE and Greddy's don;t have tick marks on them so lining up the STI belt is a little easier for the newb. I'd hate to do something like that wrong.

They have a mark for you to line up with the mark on the crank gear. Thats really all you need. After that, its all about getting your cam gear marks lined up.
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:35 AM   #14
thejean
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Alrighty lads. I took off the accessory belts last night and I still have the whining noise when cold. Mostly goes away when warm but not 100%. I also took some vids for you all to have a listen to. You can't hear the faint metallic rattle in the videos either but it is always there, cold or warm.

Cold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeG_8TEModM

Warm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_ZFWUXulus
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:38 PM   #15
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Wow loud pistons, damn Quirt. Does it smoke or eat lots oil? Lots of interesting sounds going on there.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:52 PM   #16
thejean
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Yeah, they are noisy for sure but I imagine most forged pistons will be noisy. So far the car hasn't eaten any measurable amount of oil but it only has 330 kms on it. It will quiet down considerably as well with break-in.

I do have TGV deletes which I think will magnify any engine noise somewhat also, particularly on throttle tip-in.

What is bothering me most is that damn whining noise. I just can't seem to put my finger... err, screw driver tip on it.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:55 PM   #17
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When you built the motor, were any of the idler pulleys for the timing belt tough to move? might be bearing whine from one of them. What about the water pump? easy to rotate?

In the cold start video, the "whine" became a lot more noticeable when you had the camera by the turbo.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:01 PM   #18
thejean
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New water pump and oil pump. Everything else was re-used (including the tensioner). I checked all of the idlers for odd bearing sounds and there were none. Also, the noise does not sound like a bad tensioner tapping that you get when they are no good. I also made sure I had proper clearances on the timing belt cam sprockets and also the guide over the crank pulley.

This definitely sounds like a bearing of some sort but I don't think it's a rod bearing as I know what it sounds like when they go. The turbo is a potential culprit for sure. I have a new VF37 setup waiting to go in so if it is the turbo, that will be gone soon. Would a turbo spin much at idle and low rpm though?
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:15 PM   #19
SloRice
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yes, a turbo does spin at idle.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:15 PM   #20
thejean
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Actually, one thing I do remember now is that one of the cam sprockets was VERY close to the plastic cover underneath it at one spot due to the little rubber pad underneath one cover bolt being compressed a lot. It is possible that this sprocket is rubbing a little but I don't understand how that type of a problem would quiet down when the engine warms up. IF that is the problem, it will eventually go away as the cam gear wears down the plastic.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:15 PM   #21
thejean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRice View Post
yes, a turbo does spin at idle.
Cool, now I have two potential sources of the sound, both easy fixes.

Also, when I first started it up, the turbo feed line banjo bolt was loose so it's possible the tubro got slightly starved for oil for a few seconds, but still, that was at idle and for all of 5 seconds so I suspect not much damage could have been done. Car has 130k kms on it though, so perhaps that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:43 PM   #22
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Remove the AC belt. The AC compressor is lubed by the oil in the R134A Freon.
There is a chance that running the AC compressor without freon would cause the bearing to squeal as it gets toasted.
Good luck
Jay-R
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:54 PM   #23
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^^^Thanks! Something else I didn't know! JC
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:57 PM   #24
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You're quite welcome.

Jay-R

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^^^Thanks! Something else I didn't know! JC
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:29 PM   #25
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Are you running that kevlar STi reinforced timing belt? "They" claim to be a bit louder than stock.
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