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Old 04-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #501
sysfailur
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Thanks I'll investigate later. Update... posting this from inside my car. For my 2008 STi, when I put the sensor back in all I had to delete were codes P2431 and P2433 so far. They were the only ones that popped up for me. Excellence!!!!!
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:42 AM   #502
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Default 06 wrx - guide?

I've had the dreaded p2410 code and have blockoff plates. Looked under the car, and it is easy to see where one of the plates will go on the drivers side. Apparently the other requires removal of the up-pipe? Is that easiest way? I've never actually seen it but in this thread people say it's under the intake manifold. Is it possible to access it by removing the intake manifold or would it be easier?
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #503
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All the info you could need is in this thread.

The easiest way to get the the passenger side plate is removing the up pipe, it is not necessary but it make things go a lot easier. The drivers side is pretty easy and just comes right out.

Im not 100% on the location of both valves on the 06's wrx but I know for a fact on the 07's both valves are located on the drivers side, one directly under the tmic and the other is nestled under the intake manifold, and will have to stay under there until you see it fit to remove the IM and remove the valve.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #504
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I've read through this thread and i understand the consensus is that 06 WRXs are safe to remove everything and get the codes supressed because there doesn't seem to be that pressure sensor in the driver's side valve. But has anyone done the atmospheric pressure test to see what the ecu is reading? It looks like that reading was done only on 07s to show that they need to keep the sensor, but no one has done it with the 06.

The reason I'm asking is that when I downloaded the service manual from the subaru technical information website years ago, the pinout shows the same "with integrated pressure sensor" for the LH valve. Granted, it may have been a revised version in preparation for the 07s, but seeing as I didn't see anyone show pressure readings on an 06 (unless i somehow missed it in through the hundreds of posts in this thread), I thought I'd ask.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
I've read through this thread and i understand the consensus is that 06 WRXs are safe to remove everything and get the codes supressed because there doesn't seem to be that pressure sensor in the driver's side valve. But has anyone done the atmospheric pressure test to see what the ecu is reading? It looks like that reading was done only on 07s to show that they need to keep the sensor, but no one has done it with the 06.

The reason I'm asking is that when I downloaded the service manual from the subaru technical information website years ago, the pinout shows the same "with integrated pressure sensor" for the LH valve. Granted, it may have been a revised version in preparation for the 07s, but seeing as I didn't see anyone show pressure readings on an 06 (unless i somehow missed it in through the hundreds of posts in this thread), I thought I'd ask.
hmmmm, I haven't physically removed my valves. So, I'm not certain. Could you have been looking at an STI diagram? maybe they got the sensor in 06?

someone will know.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by 1 Lucky Texan View Post
hmmmm, I haven't physically removed my valves. So, I'm not certain. Could you have been looking at an STI diagram? maybe they got the sensor in 06?

someone will know.
No, its definitely not the STI diagram. I'm pretty sure there is a sensor on it too because the valve looks identical to all the 07's valves. I know people with 06s have removed them without problems, but if i remember correctly you can drive around in an 07 without the sensor with no physical problems too, just that they say the pressure was reading wrong.

hopefully someone with an 06 who did a reading can chime in...
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:19 PM   #507
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I have an 07 wrx engine in my car (complete ecu/wiring harness swap). Removed both pumps, deleted like all 13 codes that came up for it. I've never had one noticable issue from it. It's been this way for ~ 3 years.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #508
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^ its these experiences that make me think the pressure sensor keeps tab on the air output of the air pump. I don't understand how the valve can gauge atmospheric pressure when its pretty much sealed when its hooked up to the air pump and the block.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #509
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It works. A lot of people do it, I've done it. To the sti I had as well as my current car. No issues at all.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:08 PM   #510
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Can anyone tell me if this process should work in the 2006 Saab 9-2x ?(essentially the same car as the same model year WRX Wagon)

Has anyone done this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Lucky Texan View Post
Still no problems with my car related to deleting the codes. Still have all the parts in place (except for the 2 fuses.)

Just bumping to paste in the instructions I used. might cut down on some reading/searching. NOTE: the following is for an 06 WRX. Others may vary somewhat.


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I found these directions with my comments added. You'll need a Tactrix cable, a laptop, ECU Flash, and RomRaider.

Plug in the green test connectors under the dash of the car. (search if you don't know where these are)
Plug in the tatrix cable to the OBD2 port.
Open ecu flash, and hit read from ecu button.
Pick your model.
It will ask you to turn on the ingition, and hit ok. Wait untill the radiator fan to fully ramp up then press ok, if you do it to soon it will have a connection error. This takes a few minutes to download the hex.
Once downloaded, save the file, dont forget to put .hex at the end of the filename. (I just put this on the desktop)
Make extra copy of file and PUT IN SAFE PLACE. (made a copy and put it on the desktop)
Now open file with romraider, and scroll down to trouble codes.
Open trouble codes and scroll down to the ones you want to disable. (I just disabled the two)
It will open a dialog box, deselect enable for every code you want to disable.
Save file. (I saved over the original one I saved off, left the copy alone)
Now open ecu flash and open the new hex file.
Test flash first, if that is sucessful, flash it!! (very important!)
A few minutes later it will ask you to turn off the ignition.
Disconnect the green test connectors.
Reset the ecu.
Go have fun with no cel.


I had no troubles at all, very straight forward. If you have problems, I doubt I can answer them
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:09 PM   #511
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Also, anyone in the Minneapolis area by chance with an openport? Anyone know a good place to ask?
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:22 PM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
^ its these experiences that make me think the pressure sensor keeps tab on the air output of the air pump. I don't understand how the valve can gauge atmospheric pressure when its pretty much sealed when its hooked up to the air pump and the block.
the pressure sensor does factor in to how the engine runs. I had 2 of the pins in the connector break off, threw a CEL saying the secondary air circuit had a problem, which was strange because I have delete plates installed and codes removed. Car was running crappy, idle very high at startup, lousy drivability. Got fuel cut and an overboost CEL at only 16 PSI or so. Turns out the faulty sensor was reading ambient air as 6 PSI instead of the expected 14 or so. The MAP sensor reads total pressure, so it saw 16 PSI boost plus 14 PSI atmospheric = 30 PSI, but the ECU calculates that as 30 PSI - 6 PSI = 24 PSI boost, hence hitting fuel cut.

A new valve cured all my ills, and car is running great again. Sucked to buy a new valve even though I don't use most of it, but I wasn't finding anything used, and I needed it.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #513
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^ strange...how did you get a CEL for a secondary air circuit problem if you had all air pump-related codes removed? What was the code?

Last edited by littledrummerboy; 04-11-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
^ strange...how did you get a CEL for a secondary air circuit problem if you had all air pump-related codes removed? What was the code?
my guess is, though it's located on one of the valves, it isn't really an 'aircut' related device. Dunno how my 06's ECU gets that info, but I'm sure my ECU would pop a code if some pin or wire were cut that supplied it.

maybe someone will post with better info.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:57 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
^ strange...how did you get a CEL for a secondary air circuit problem if you had all air pump-related codes removed? What was the code?
code was P1410
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:59 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by northman View Post
code was P1410
That's the "Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve Stuck Open" code which means all of your air pump related codes were not supressed like you thought.

That would put your car in limp mode so your car running badly wasn't the pressure sensor's fault -- its because the ECU still recognized a faulty air pump valve. I think you would've been fine if all the codes were properly supressed and didn't need to buy a new valve.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:19 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
That's the "Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve Stuck Open" code which means all of your air pump related codes were not supressed like you thought.

That would put your car in limp mode so your car running badly wasn't the pressure sensor's fault -- its because the ECU still recognized a faulty air pump valve. I think you would've been fine if all the codes were properly supressed and didn't need to buy a new valve.
I might have read the # wrong, the description on the AP was less specific, just said the Secondary Air had a problem. Maybe it was P0410.

The sensor was reading incorrectly, 6 PSI atmospheric vs 14 something. This throws off the ECUs calculation for how much boost it is seeing, which very much makes a difference. Resetting the ECU did not change this behavior. Swapping the new sensor made a night/day difference. The sensor connector had 2 of the 5 or so pins broken off, with visible signs of corrosion. Replacing it was the right call.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:51 PM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northman View Post
I might have read the # wrong, the description on the AP was less specific, just said the Secondary Air had a problem. Maybe it was P0410.

The sensor was reading incorrectly, 6 PSI atmospheric vs 14 something. This throws off the ECUs calculation for how much boost it is seeing, which very much makes a difference. Resetting the ECU did not change this behavior. Swapping the new sensor made a night/day difference. The sensor connector had 2 of the 5 or so pins broken off, with visible signs of corrosion. Replacing it was the right call.
P0410 is "Secondary Air Injection System". I have Subaru Service Manual including the list of codes. So it really sounds like your tuner did not supress the codes dealing with the air pump because that should not even show up if it was supressed.

I do believe you when you say it ran poorly because CELs tend to do that to a car, but what you experienced can't be definitively attributed to the pressure sensor because your codes were not supressed.

I don't mean to come off like I'm causing trouble by disagreeing, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this whole pressure sensor reading ambient air pressure when its pretty much sealed off and the Subaru Service Manual says the 06s have it too... if 06s run fine without the valves then I'm beginning to think this pressure valve might not be doing what people think its doing.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:00 PM   #519
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I just had the air system "delete" done at Innovative Tuning in Buffalo, NY on my 2007 WRX stage 2 with a protune. Essentially, they fabricated the necessary block off plates, installed, and Mike disabled/deleted all cel codes associated with the system in my tune. The system is still in place, and I have no intentions of removing it. Apparently one of the plates is in a difficult place to access and that is why it took 2.45 hours of labor to get the job done. So far the car runs fantastically, no CELs, and I don't have to worry about this stupid inane system causing me any more problems. I recommend this shop! They have treated me very well, and are very helpful in answering any questions I have. I am sure Mike would be able to chime in on this pressure sensor this that is being discussed.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:08 PM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
P0410 is "Secondary Air Injection System". I have Subaru Service Manual including the list of codes. So it really sounds like your tuner did not supress the codes dealing with the air pump because that should not even show up if it was supressed.

I do believe you when you say it ran poorly because CELs tend to do that to a car, but what you experienced can't be definitively attributed to the pressure sensor because your codes were not supressed.

I don't mean to come off like I'm causing trouble by disagreeing, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this whole pressure sensor reading ambient air pressure when its pretty much sealed off and the Subaru Service Manual says the 06s have it too... if 06s run fine without the valves then I'm beginning to think this pressure valve might not be doing what people think its doing.
You can choose not to believe what I say, that is fine. I've been down the secondary air failure thing before, and when I did get CELs they never put me in limp mode. This pressure sensor failure was different. The car ran like crap. I actually thought my tranny was going out, it drove erratically enough to feel like there was a bunch of backlash in the driveline. It reved to 2,500 when starting cold.

I pulled the connector off and 2 of the pins were broken. With the bad connector it read 6 PSI ambient. With the connector disconnected, it read something like 18 PSI. Both are wrong, standard air pressure should be 14.7 plus or minus a bit.

Before I figured this out, I did a relatively tame pull and hit fuel cut, tripping an overboost code. According to my boost gauge my max boost was 16.6 PSI. The map I run is tuned for 18 PSI, so something was definitely not right.

The tuner that I've been using is the head tuner for Cobb, I think he knows his way around an Accessport.

If the 06 runs fine without the valve, it probably means that the pressure sensor is in a different location, or it uses a different tuning philosophy.

Edit: I am cut n pasting part of the explanation my tuner gave me, I don't expect he will mind.


"It does indeed sound like something is amiss with the barometric pressure sensor. 6.2psi barometric pressure would be roughly 22000 feet elevation and I'm guessing you weren't on an airplane when this happened :-D The incorrect atmospheric pressure measurement would have also caused the P0244 as relative manifold pressure is used to determined that code -- it is the "boost cut" feature to minimize the risk of damage if control over boost levels is lost. In this situation, at ~17psi of manifold boost (as per your auxilliary gauge), or ~31psi of manifold absolute pressure, the ECU would see ~25psi of manifold relative pressure (31psi-6.2psi), which is above the threshold I set for setting the P0244 code / inducing boost cut."

Last edited by northman; 04-13-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:06 AM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northman View Post
You can choose not to believe what I say, that is fine. I've been down the secondary air failure thing before, and when I did get CELs they never put me in limp mode. This pressure sensor failure was different. The car ran like crap. I actually thought my tranny was going out, it drove erratically enough to feel like there was a bunch of backlash in the driveline. It reved to 2,500 when starting cold.

I pulled the connector off and 2 of the pins were broken. With the bad connector it read 6 PSI ambient. With the connector disconnected, it read something like 18 PSI. Both are wrong, standard air pressure should be 14.7 plus or minus a bit.

Before I figured this out, I did a relatively tame pull and hit fuel cut, tripping an overboost code. According to my boost gauge my max boost was 16.6 PSI. The map I run is tuned for 18 PSI, so something was definitely not right.

The tuner that I've been using is the head tuner for Cobb, I think he knows his way around an Accessport.

If the 06 runs fine without the valve, it probably means that the pressure sensor is in a different location, or it uses a different tuning philosophy.

Edit: I am cut n pasting part of the explanation my tuner gave me, I don't expect he will mind.


"It does indeed sound like something is amiss with the barometric pressure sensor. 6.2psi barometric pressure would be roughly 22000 feet elevation and I'm guessing you weren't on an airplane when this happened :-D The incorrect atmospheric pressure measurement would have also caused the P0244 as relative manifold pressure is used to determined that code -- it is the "boost cut" feature to minimize the risk of damage if control over boost levels is lost. In this situation, at ~17psi of manifold boost (as per your auxilliary gauge), or ~31psi of manifold absolute pressure, the ECU would see ~25psi of manifold relative pressure (31psi-6.2psi), which is above the threshold I set for setting the P0244 code / inducing boost cut."
Ah now it all makes sense with P0244. That's "Turbo/Super Charger Wastegate
Solenoid “A” Range/Performance". The other codes you said were all air pump codes so it just sounded like your air pump codes weren't removed and that was a problem. Since a new valve fixed your problem then your experience makes sense.

I too had my air pump system fail in 2008 and my CELs caused my car to run poorly. The pump was stuck on, the valves were stuck open etc. Back then not much information was around on the pump system and I was just lucky my dealership replaced the entire air pump system under warranty. Now i'm just waiting for it to fail again so all this information helps since I'll be deleting the system like you.

I just wish there was more exact information on the difference between 06s and 07s and barometric pressure besides the "atmospheric readings must be read somewhere else" explanation. It hasn't been definitevly found. 06s and 07s are more or less the same model, my service manual shows the same pressure sensor in the 06 valve, but 06s supposedly run fine without it?

Last edited by littledrummerboy; 04-14-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #522
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The overboost CEL was caused by the car thinking it was seeing more boost than it really was, due to the faulty pressure sensor. But I did get a CEL from the secondary air circuit as well, I read the code on the Accessport and it was related to the secondary air. So it seems, even with the "usual" codes deleted, that the ECU still recognized a fault in the pressure sensor, and threw out a CEL related to the secondary air.

I agree this is strange behavior, and part of the reason I'm trying to 'splain it, cause no doubt it will happen to someone else.

In hindsight I suspect this problem was manifesting itself over a period of time. I had been running for about a year with the air pump and valves in place, but disabled by pulling the fuses and deleting the CEL codes. I was getting the occasional CEL related to secondary air, even though the tuner claimed they were all deleted. There was no impact to the drivability, so I assumed it was a bug or something in the AP. After reloading maps numerous times I thought I had cured it when I updated the firmware on the AP, but I must have been mistaken.

So when it's all said and done, it comes down to a faulty valve assy. Not only are the valves themselves prone to failure by corrosion, but the electrical connection as well.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:50 AM   #523
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still debating on doing this mod, weird how some people state to keep the atmospheric pressure sensor on one of the pumps and others are saying they took it all out and have no problems. is there a solid answer to this problem for the 07's?
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:53 AM   #524
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still debating on doing this mod, weird how some people state to keep the atmospheric pressure sensor on one of the pumps and others are saying they took it all out and have no problems. is there a solid answer to this problem for the 07's?
yes. my car is an 07 FXT. Keep the sensor.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #525
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a member I pm'd with an 06 had trouble when he removed his valve so now I don't even know if 06s are safe to remove all valves either. Maybe to play it safe the valve should just be kept there for all years These conflicting stories are confusing
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