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Old 12-04-2001, 01:28 AM   #1
jdsimpreza
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Default borla header or high flow cat

hey i currently am running just intake and exhaust in my scoobie and i am wondering if anyone has put in either borla headers or a high-flow cat. i am interested in putting them in and i am wondering about the gains. I have an AEM intake which everyone hates at this site, and a greddy evo exhaust. my car moves a ton faster then stock but thats besides the point. im just wondering if anyone wit the 2001 or 2002 2.5 rs has tried either the headers or cat and what are the gains, is it worth it?
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Old 12-04-2001, 02:08 AM   #2
scubaracer
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Usually, you will see anywhere from 4-6 hp from headers and hiflow cat. if you do buy them, you will probably lose just a tad bit of low end grunt, but you will gain in top end power because of increased exhaust flow.

not sure about borla header though, i've heard bad things. such as: cracking due to heat, rubbing on steering boot, and poor weld quality.

hey, it's your money!

check out the MRT header & hiflow cat. or, the expensive brullen system. there is also the revolution motorsports header. that is suppose to be ceramic coated and look like the borla design.

hope this helps
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Old 12-04-2001, 02:43 AM   #3
JoeT
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Is the Brullen setup really that expensive.

Check out the comparison....

Note, for comparison sake see below:

SYMS Equal Length Headers from Japan without Cat $1533.00 USD + High Flow Cat $300.00 USD = $1833.00 USD

Borla non equal length headers US $495.00 USD + High Flow Cat $300.00 USD = $795.00 USD

Note: The Brullen Equal Length header which comes with a high flow cat is only $728.00 with the current USD to CAD exchange rate...

Which one is less expensive and has better gains...

Now for the "G-Tech" Facts

Stock Impreza RS (Tibor)
Data entered into G-Tech
Car Weight = 3100 Lbs (includes driver)

Times were taken on the same stretch of the 410 at 12:00 (midnight about over a span of 3 weeks) A total of 27 runs were taken, 9 stock runs, 9 cat back runs, and 9 Header w/ cat back runs. Each section will show the averages. The other mods which were prestent during all the runs are K&N Filter, Cold air tube to the fender, and Under Drive Pulley.

Stock:
0-60 = 8.1 Sec (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 16.14 @ 86 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 115 (average of 3 runs)

Stock + Brullen Cat Back exhaust:
0 - 60 = 7.4 (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 15.39 @ 90 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 121 (average of 3 runs)

Header + 2.25 Cat Back exhaust:
0 - 60 = 6.91 (average of 3 runs)
1/4 Mile = 14.94 @ 92 (Best of 3 runs)
HP = 136 (average of 3 runs)
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Old 12-04-2001, 10:48 AM   #4
ImpreziveRS
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Those numbers are pretty good improvements over stock with just an exhaust upgrade. Is that G-Tech thing very accurate? I was considering buying one.
~Kyle
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Old 12-04-2001, 11:05 AM   #5
inpreza kid
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i keep on seeing these g-tec numbers come up over and over again. they are not accurate IMO. even if you took 100 runs to average them out its still not accurate. i don't see why you guys that run and sell these brullen exhaust parts don't just get a automatic 2.5RS,legacy GT,OBS, or any of the new 2.5L's and put it on a 2wd dyno. sure i bet there are alot of thoes around.
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Old 12-04-2001, 11:06 AM   #6
JoeT
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Hi There,

Out of 27 runs, I would gather that it would be close. The important thing to look at are the differences in HP & Acceleration times.

Since installing the Brullen Headers and Complete Systems, many people have extremely positive experiences.

Check out the thread in the Private Classifieds section or take a look at www.toronto-subaru-club.com under the general forums section, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...
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Old 12-04-2001, 12:16 PM   #7
smacksube
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I have headers, a pipe replacement through the first cat and a hi flow second cat along with intake and exhaust. All I can really say about the header and cat is that torque gets a monsterous improvement, it took me a good 5 days to get used to the torque, but it really moves....
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Old 12-04-2001, 12:37 PM   #8
MINDGAME
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ImpresiveRS-
I believe all versions of the car had a custom fabricated intake and underpulleys. This was not stated in the other post either, and caused a bit of contraversy on the original thread. In any case, I am still on the list to get a set. People have just started putting them on and the feedback I have been reading has been great; noticable power difference, no loss of low-end, great sound...

I'm just waiting for the CARB certified one's to be available.
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Old 12-04-2001, 06:35 PM   #9
jdsimpreza
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so smack sube, i just haVe an intake and exhaust and its pretty good, but im having trouble with thre launch cause i havaent found exactly where to bleed the clutch and how much yet. but what your saying about the torue improvment, cause it also improve up top>? im really interested in getting those 2 mods to finished out the air in/airout in my car, and i want that $HIT to fly. withthe heightened torque, is my car going to launch nice and can it even maybe chirp 2.d gear??? i mean with awd thats a lot to ask anyway...i just want good torque so i can rip off the line, and get some balls up top where my car fails against si's and gsr's.
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Old 12-04-2001, 08:04 PM   #10
DDMan
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Chirp 2nd...HA

I dont think you will ever be able to do it, even if you pop the clutch, at 6000 RPM for 2nd gear.

I can parely get 1st to chirp, let alone 2nd.
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Old 12-04-2001, 08:25 PM   #11
jdsimpreza
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wow dd, i can chirp 1st quiet nasty if i do a clutch drop...u obviously dont know what i meant...i can def chirp 2nd with some werk...fwd cars do it stock but thats not hard. my friend has an awd talon with a ton of werk a nd he can chirp up to 3rdbuddy..its is quite possible
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Old 12-05-2001, 09:49 AM   #12
ImpreziveRS
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I also want to chirp 2nd!!!! I've just got a free-flowing muffler and a cone filter w/heat shield on my TB. Plus the hoodscoop is opened. I know, I know...people are going to tell me that I lose low-end power with that setup, but I haven't noticed it. I did notice that my torque curve has moved up in the RPM's to about 4k. With WOT and I hit 4k, the car shoots forward like a turbo kicking in. It's pretty tight. Anyways, I was racing a friend of mine with an RS. He's got a custom intake that takes air all the way from beneath the foglight. We were doing like 110 and he still couldn't pull on me. I was pulling away from him in fact. Exhaust does make a big diff.

~Kyle
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Old 12-05-2001, 10:39 AM   #13
JoeT
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ImprezaKid,

Quote:
i keep on seeing these g-tec numbers come up over and over again. they are not accurate IMO. even if you took 100 runs to average them out its still not accurate.
I agree with you for the HP numbers, that's why I said to use them as reference only and that the difference is what matters.

Also important for reference sake is the parameters you enter into the G-Tech.

But for the 1/4 mile and 0-60 the G-Tech is accurate. There are lots of posts within I-Club comparing actual 1/4 mile and 0-60 times with G-Tech readings. The net result of the G-Tech vs Actual is that it is pretty damn close as far as acceleration numbers are concerned.

The numbers listed for the tests give a variety of readings, so that the gains will be supported by the acceleration and 1/4 mile times.

Hope this helps...

So far Brullen has only done 1 Automatic, but it was already equipped with PRM intake, UD pulley, Cobb Cams. He actually posted a testimonial in another thread. Search for "Altibaby", unfortunately we didn't do a before and after dyno in FWD mode, that's a good idea though...
Enjoy
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Old 12-05-2001, 07:24 PM   #14
inpreza kid
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JoeT i was actually thinking about getting the brullen N/A headers awhile back. still intrested in them. i think i'll wait till spring/summer for some of the east coast guys to lay down some numbers at the track before i make my decision. still not sure about the g-tec. hehe.
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Old 12-06-2001, 12:10 PM   #15
AC Lerok
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i have the Borla header and Random Tech cat installed along with my Cobb CAI and Stromung cat-back.

i've had nothing but problems since i installed the header and cat. first off, it threw a CEL which i cannot clear, even after wrapping the header. second, the header/cat combo is VERY loud and creates a lot of vibration under the car (heatshield buzzing mostly). i don't want to hack off the heat shields, so i either live with the buzz or remove the parts. i'm removing the parts.

i can't speak numbers, but i feel that the header/cat combo didn't really add very much to the powerband . . . it SOUNDS a lot faster, that's for sure, and i'm sure that the sound screws up people's perceptions . . . i was sure that my car was a lot faster until i finally came back to earth and realized that it's basically just louder, not all that much faster.

anyway, i'm pulling the header and cat off and going back to the stock front section. i'll be posting both parts in the Private FS section once they're off and packed for shipping.

watch all that clutch dropping at high RPMs, our trannys are made of glass, and Subaru is starting to fight warranty claims on blown transmissions.
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Old 12-07-2001, 11:09 AM   #16
cvcsmkr
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AC Lerok:
i am very concerned with your post.
I have borla headers and random tech high flow cat replacement pipe on their way.
Is it that bad?
As far as the vibration, is it possible whoever installed didn't do a good job?
Do you have any stories as to the gains or losses?
(such as, track #'s or a street strip mile that u usually do 100 down.)
thanks,
cvcsmkr
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Old 12-07-2001, 03:21 PM   #17
AC Lerok
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my story seems to be an anomoly, many people have the same setup and no complaints. most haven't even gotten a CEL. because i have an hour+ commute to work each way, i'm more interested in the car's day-to-day drivability and comfort, and this is one case where the performance gains aren't worth the tradeoffs (loudness, vibration, CEL, etc).

the front half of the exhaust was installed well, the buzzing didn't develop until after a few days . . . you can FEEL the exhaust pulse with this setup, it's not surprising that it shakes things loose under there. it was magnified when i used urethane exhaust hangers . . . they transfer vibration much better than the stock rubber hangers.

performance wise, i don't have hard numbers. like i said, by the seat of my pants once i got used to the sound, i don't believe that the car is much quicker. i can't quantify that claim, but then again, no one has quantified any of the gain claims. i've never really been interested in track times or whatever, so i never baselined my car to begin with. any numbers that i come up with now would be somewhat meaningless anyway.

even if there are gains, the Borla/Random combo doesn't quite deliver the bang for the buck as much as other mods, as far as i can tell.
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Old 12-07-2001, 03:39 PM   #18
cvcsmkr
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thanks AC, i will take your advise into great consideration.....cvcsmkr
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