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Old 03-02-2007, 01:36 AM   #1
WRXDrUnKiE
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Default Perrin Rotated Setup Idle Problems

Ok I have searched and I am a bit confused on the success of the results people have had. The problem with my car is the idle, after I start driving, coming off the gas approaching a light for example, or coming off the highway the idle gets very bad, up and down up and down, and usually the car dies . I think it has something to do with the MAF or the perrin intake system but I am not exactly where to start . I need the DIY solution for this because I would like the car to be running well enough to get tuned on sunday.


Suggestions or refrence threads appreciated. I have heard things from zip tieing something to the bottom of your intake to a cai to something as simple as giving your intake a 90 degree turn.

AZScoobie said, "Guys... I have posted this many times... reinstall the Stock Airbox elbow between the turbo and the intake. This will move the sensor farther away and the MAF signal is much stronger. No more stalling. Trying to program around this issue is not the best aproach to take. It takes 10 minutes to install that rubber hose and the car will run much better. Its a real simple problem... The Turbochargers compressor is pulling air across that sensor as it spins down. The ECu responds by injecting fuel as a result of that MAF reading.. The engine runs rich and stalls... Datalog the MAF voltage and watch this happen Simple move the MAF farther away... "


I am not sure though what he means bu stock airbox elbow. HELP
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:43 AM   #2
STIBungy
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I think your loping idle has more to do with the mismatched flow rates on your injectors more than the maf. I have some lope on mine and going from a stock diameter intake to a Perrin big maf to a blow through setup hasnt changed its characteristics. Some people said that you can cure some of the loping by increasing the idle.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:39 AM   #3
WRXDrUnKiE
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but that doesnt explain the car dieing, like if i am coming off an exit ramp, the car died probably 5 times in the drive through.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:45 AM   #4
dream
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It's the tune.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:54 AM   #5
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yeah... get the car tuned.... my car did this too before it was tuned
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:37 PM   #6
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AZScoobie is totally right. I and a couple others have added more distance between the MAF and turbo inlet, and the stalling problem goes away. I put two 90 degree elbows there, so the air filter is alongside the fender right up against the passenger side wheelwell. Works like a charm. If you search, I've posted pics before, as have a few others.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:15 PM   #7
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I also have the same problem, i really wish perrin would have done some R&D before selling these kits instead of letting us do it for them. Like others have said, people have had success when they relocate the MAF sensor farther from the turbo.. If i were you, i'd have a custom CAI built and just relocate the MAF into the fenderwell or something..
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:19 PM   #8
STIBungy
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It has alot to do with the tune. You cant use the stock airbox with the Perrin kit because 1) it doesnt fit and 2) stock diameter tubing will limit the maf.
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Old 03-02-2007, 04:14 PM   #9
WRXDrUnKiE
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I think I will just wait to see what happens with the tune and then if the problem is still there I will go to the ricer section at autozone and fab something up
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Old 03-02-2007, 04:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
AZScoobie is totally right. I and a couple others have added more distance between the MAF and turbo inlet, and the stalling problem goes away. I put two 90 degree elbows there, so the air filter is alongside the fender right up against the passenger side wheelwell. Works like a charm. If you search, I've posted pics before, as have a few others.
This worked for me too. Had the same problem.
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Old 03-02-2007, 04:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
AZScoobie is totally right. I and a couple others have added more distance between the MAF and turbo inlet, and the stalling problem goes away. I put two 90 degree elbows there, so the air filter is alongside the fender right up against the passenger side wheelwell. Works like a charm. If you search, I've posted pics before, as have a few others.
huh?


wrxdrunkie,

please for the love of holy jesus...

do yourself a favor and put your intake on BEFORE you get the dyno tune. IT WILL THROW OFF THE MAF READING, by changing the intake AFTER the dyno tune.

You will be sorry if you don't.
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:53 PM   #12
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Mind giving me a quick run down of what parts you used. My tune is on sunday so I need to do this asap.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #13
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If your doing a modification this big why even drive it without it being tuned? It's pure stupidity if you ask me. Tune it before you ruin it.
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Old 03-03-2007, 01:47 AM   #14
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Well I am breaking in the motor on a break in map that PDX sent me and being very careful.

Thanks for your concern though

On a side note the car seems to be running much better today. Did not stall once today, adjusted the bov spring some and that seems to of helped. Still a slightly wavy idle but the stalling has stopped atleast for today I am going to go to the ricer section of autozone tomorrow and see if I can fab something up before the tune. Though I might not need to after how the car was running today might just be time for some dyno numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by trip-doh View Post
If your doing a modification this big why even drive it without it being tuned? It's pure stupidity if you ask me. Tune it before you ruin it.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXDrUnKiE View Post
Mind giving me a quick run down of what parts you used. My tune is on sunday so I need to do this asap.
Pmed you back about the intake parts.




The biggest thing is that you need to get that bov to either: 1) shut at an idle, but have no compressor surge...good luck with that. 2) open and recirced at an idle.

Basically the end result is the system just needs to be closed loop. This will get you the driveabilty.

You can sacrifice driveability, for some small headaches. it's just how much do you want to put up with it. I wanted mine to drive like stock. And it does, just that.
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trip-doh View Post
If your doing a modification this big why even drive it without it being tuned? It's pure stupidity if you ask me. Tune it before you ruin it.
The PDX basemap is VERY good. it allows the customer a full range of AFR point shift, if any concerns are present. And the car will be driveable to the tuning spot.

The difference is people like me who have changed their intake setup, or people who have leaking bov's, it will seem to run crappy (exspecially with leaks, such as a bov) but in no way is it the tune....it's some of the parts installed. The intake setup I did, just slightly through off the maf, and Jarrad from pdx made a couple tweaks and we were good to go. i think he was impressed.

To say he's not tuned is crazy. Since they've tuned 50+ 30r equipped cars, the basemap they have is VERY good. I think we made a total of 5 pulls for the pump gas map, and about 8-9 pulls when we turned my water/meth injection on.

I was impressed.
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Old 03-03-2007, 03:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
The biggest thing is that you need to get that bov to either: 1) shut at an idle, but have no compressor surge...good luck with that. 2) open and recirced at an idle.
Dustin likes it completely open at idle, and it will certainly NOT surge that way, but I found that I lost 300 rpms of spool. Unacceptable. Now I'm running it just barely shut at idle (the slightest pressure will move it), the spool is where it should be, and I have only just a twinge of surge on hard throttle lift. It's a trade off, as you know.

The real problem is the fact that BOV/BPV's are vacuum controlled. Until someone makes one that is vaccum independant, or that self-adjusts, we will always have throttle-lift surge issues when we go up in altitude. Adjust it perfectly for sea-level then drive it up to 6K ASL, and it will surge like a MOFO. Why? Because vacuum drops off with altitude whlie the spring rate stays the same. Just something for people to keep in mind if you ever go to the mountains.

Last edited by flycaster; 03-03-2007 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:03 AM   #18
WRXDrUnKiE
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LOL well I am going to the mountains in a week after my tune here in texas so I will keep that in mind LOL!! Again today the car ran great, no stalling at all, the idle has also improved. Every day it seems to get better
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