Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday December 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2007, 06:29 PM   #1
DerekMD07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133941
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London ON
Vehicle:
2010 STI
black

Default Bouncy ride with Koni inserts and Tanabe springs

Hey all,

Just installed koni inserts with Tanable GF 210 springs on 06 WRX. The springs are the updated ones which lower the car 1" upfront and 0.5" at the back. Though the lowering is perfect (evens out the front and back perfectly), I found that this setup is so bouncy to the point it gives me headaches. I have used Tein basic coilover in the past on TSX, and it worked like magic.

FYI, I am riding on 205/55/17 Hankook W300 snowtires, rear and front koni dialed to half-stiff. I am skeptical that tophats would fix the bouciness. Is the bouciness related to high spring rate or that I need to soften up my koni?

Thanks all in advance
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
DerekMD07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 07:13 PM   #2
Arnie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1725
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
99 Subaru Impreza
GF silver

Default

You will definitely get a certain amount of bounciness due to the tall, soft sidewall winter tire. Your suspension is relatively stiff and your tires are basically an undamped spring. Have you played with all damping adjustment possbilities? Full soft even?
Arnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 09:21 PM   #3
DerekMD07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133941
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London ON
Vehicle:
2010 STI
black

Default

I will give that a try. Hopefully that would solve the problem. I never imagined a stiff spring like Tanabe would give such a harsh ride.
DerekMD07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2007, 09:24 PM   #4
Arnie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1725
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
99 Subaru Impreza
GF silver

Default

Well, stiffer springs will usually net a harsh ride. Depends more on the damper. If you are really curious (and can) throw on your summer meats and see how much smoother your ride will be, even at the same damper settings.
Arnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2007, 12:09 AM   #5
Gonz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18642
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MAIC
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMD07 View Post
I will give that a try. Hopefully that would solve the problem. I never imagined a stiff spring like Tanabe would give such a harsh ride.
Good luck with it. I have konis now with my snow tires on now. If you really pay attention, it is more bouncy compared to summer tires.

But it's not nearly as bad as it was when I had konis with stiff springs (Ground Control 280lb) and STOCK top hats.

Once I put camber plates in the front, big improvement. No more 'jiggling' in the ride.

Hopefully you're change of tire will help, but if not, try to go to the stiffer top mounts. If you mark the struts, you should be able to do it without needing to realign the car.

More air pressure in your snow tires, might actually improve the ride also.
Gonz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2007, 01:55 AM   #6
Yoo Shin
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 87327
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Texas but TDY in North Alabama
Vehicle:
2010 12 parsec Evo X
I still kill threads

Default

Gonz, which springs do you have now then?
Yoo Shin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2007, 08:11 AM   #7
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

....STOP tryin to compare other cars rides with yours with different suspension.

...and if ya using stock strut tops...THAT may account for much your issue...the stock tops are pure MUSH......as well as running a 205/55 tire
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 03:48 PM   #8
scooby9
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76026
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335xi
Titanium Silver

Default

That's very strange... I have Koni inserts with STi wagon pink springs and they soak up the bumps beautifully. You may have to tinker with the firmness but otherwise the ride should be quite nice. I also have the Group N tophats so that might be something else to consider...
scooby9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 05:21 PM   #9
speedtrailintern
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 142254
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
02 WRX

Default

what is the spring rate on Tanable GF210 springs? maybe try turning up the dampening on the konis. i know if you have a really heavy spring with shocks that dont have much dampening that you will get a bouncy ride. higher dampening =harsher ride + less bouncing. less dampening= softer ride + more bounciness. BTW, i have koni yellows with RS-R Ti2000 down springs(216f/177r) and STi group-n top mounts on a 02 wrx.
speedtrailintern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 03:07 AM   #10
DerekMD07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133941
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London ON
Vehicle:
2010 STI
black

Default

Thanks for all your valuable inputs.

I dialed my front koni to full soft. The ride is definitely less jarring but does not seem to solve the bounciness. Maybe I need to sit in a car with top hats to make a valid comparion. Or maybe my perception of bounciness is invalid? Perhaps the car is just more harsh b/c of higher dampening koni and stiffer springs. The springs are 5.8/4.4. Not sure how to convert them.

Can someone please enlighten me how tophats can solve the problem of bouciness?

Thanks in advance,
Derek
DerekMD07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 11:01 AM   #11
benton0311
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 53872
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: SW Asia/Maryland
Vehicle:
2004 STi
White

Default

You dialed them the wrong way: they need to be stiffened up in order to control the bounce. You can slowly work them up from full soft or start somewhere in the middle and go from there. Basically keep turning them up until the bounce goes away or is reduced to what is only produced by the stock strut tops. With mine I started in the middle and worked up until the bounce went away, then went a little on the high side and backed off until the ride was perfect.

It's easy to think because the bounce = poor ride quality that they are too stiff but basically it's the fact that they aren't damping enough that's causing the bounce.

I'm running them with 350/300 ground controls and have no bounce as well as room to go with higher spring rates if desired. According to Mark at ground control the Konis make the largest adjustment in the last 1/4 turn or so from full stiff so there is a wide range of adjustment and most of it happens toward the stiff end.
benton0311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 11:55 AM   #12
Arnie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1725
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
99 Subaru Impreza
GF silver

Default

Derek - have you tried installing your summer meats? Do that before throwing more money at the car. I believe the majority of your bounciness comes from your snow tires. And with those stiff springs, christ, your tires are bouncing all over the place.
Arnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 11:57 AM   #13
Chris_Lee
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110667
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX

Default

Turn up the Koni's and change those tires....just a suggestion.
Chris_Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 12:08 PM   #14
Portly
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1197
Join Date: Apr 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Vehicle:
1997 Impreza Wagon
Mystic Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMD07 View Post
Thanks for all your valuable inputs.

I dialed my front koni to full soft. The ride is definitely less jarring but does not seem to solve the bounciness. Maybe I need to sit in a car with top hats to make a valid comparion. Or maybe my perception of bounciness is invalid? Perhaps the car is just more harsh b/c of higher dampening koni and stiffer springs. The springs are 5.8/4.4. Not sure how to convert them.

Can someone please enlighten me how tophats can solve the problem of bouciness?

Thanks in advance,
Derek
Derek

Is it cold up your way right now? My personal experience with Konis has been that they do tend to get "bouncy" in the winter. The dampening gets VERY firm when they get cold, even at full-soft. Combine that with a soft-sidewall tire, and you get a bouncy tire and a stiff suspension. Perhaps this is what you're experiencing. If so, a stiffer damper setting will NOT improve things.

The term "bouncy" can mean different things to different people, so perhaps this isn't what you're experiencing.

_Jeff
Portly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #15
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMD07 View Post
Thanks for all your valuable inputs.

I dialed my front koni to full soft. The ride is definitely less jarring but does not seem to solve the bounciness. Maybe I need to sit in a car with top hats to make a valid comparion. Or maybe my perception of bounciness is invalid? Perhaps the car is just more harsh b/c of higher dampening koni and stiffer springs. The springs are 5.8/4.4. Not sure how to convert them.

Can someone please enlighten me how tophats can solve the problem of bouciness?

Thanks in advance,
Derek

325/246 springs are VERY stiff for street use(and those with coil overs, go away....it's different for strut/spring rates).....THAT and the MUSH tops and (too) tall tires is what ya dealing with.

talk about a fooked up setup ya got there.....no thanks.....no how, no way
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 01:56 PM   #16
DerekMD07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133941
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London ON
Vehicle:
2010 STI
black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Lee View Post
Turn up the Koni's and change those tires....just a suggestion.
As suggested, I will play with the koni to achieve better ride quality. All in all, I am quite impressed with the adjustability that Koni offers. It's really no bull$hit.

As for changing tires, I am waiting for Toronto's harsh winter to go away before swapping on my summer 225/40/17. Perhaps the cold weather does stiffen up the koni.

Any idea how much improvement I should expect from tophats? My understanding is that it could take away some of the bounciness, but might increase ride harshness.

I guess I want the performance but not the harsh ride LOL. My last car was a BMW 3 series coupe with sports package. Handling is top notch but so is the ride quality. I am always impressed with how BMW can achieve both simultaneously.

Thanks all,
Derek
DerekMD07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 02:07 PM   #17
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMD07 View Post
I guess I want the performance but not the harsh ride LOL.
...GFL

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekMD07 View Post
My last car was a BMW 3 series coupe with sports package. Handling is top notch but so is the ride quality. I am always impressed with how BMW can achieve both simultaneously.

Thanks all,
Derek
...'aint happen....not with those springs....nope
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ground Control or Tanabe GF210 with Koni Inserts? wizzman Brakes, Steering & Suspension 0 12-19-2006 01:57 PM
Any coilovers that would ride as smooth on street as Koni inserts and Perrin springs? Pete Holt Brakes, Steering & Suspension 13 02-07-2006 11:24 PM
Koni inserts and stock springs. Anyone running this combo? TheMirror Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 1 01-26-2004 02:17 PM
235-40-17 on rotas with stock struts and tanabe springs Amazake Brakes, Steering & Suspension 3 08-02-2003 03:43 PM
Best Springs with Koni Inserts Shankster Brakes, Steering & Suspension 8 06-19-2003 08:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.