Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 19, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2007, 11:38 PM   #1
scooterforever
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 55011
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New England
Vehicle:
2002

Default The Relationship Between Cost and Power -- It's Not Linear... But Exponential

Having just dropped another non-insignificant sum on my car -- which started out innocently enough as the pursuit to simply fix a blown turbo (bye bye TD06 18G... hello TD06 20G with a 3" inlet and 8cm^2 hot side) -- I took a look at the relationship between cumulative investment and power levels. Before you decide that your stock wrx is too "timid" or "quiet" or "uncool," consider that -- to do it right, meaning with all supporting mods -- your "desired" power levels will require something like this from your piggy bank:

Cumulative Total Investment Required at a Given Crank HP Level



These calculations are certainly not exact, but begin with a stock pre-2006 WRX. From there, I figure 260 hp is reachable with a Tactrix cable and an open source reflash. At some point between there and a VF-34/16G Cobb Stage 2.5 my calculations assume an upgrade to Street Tuner or EcuTek or UTEC. The 380 hp level assumes a graduation to an 18G, while 400 hp assumes a 20G and a PPG or race tranny. 460 assumes you graduate to a 2.5L shortblock with head work. 600 assumes you graduate to a 2.65L shortblock, full head work, a big big turbo, and other bells and whistles.

I'm sure others would come up with calculations, and again, these numbers assume you "do it right," meaning you do not cut corners, you invest in longevity enhancements and you don't try to use your OEM transmission with a 65 lb/min turbo.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
scooterforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:42 PM   #2
Jasper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80136
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Saugus, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Ford F-150
Black

Default

this calculation assumes you didnt already break something

im in that 230whp range with over $5k invested now (although, another $1000 would net me high 350whp range)

broken motors are expensive
Jasper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2007, 11:48 PM   #3
scooterforever
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 55011
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New England
Vehicle:
2002

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
broken motors are expensive
I have a nice paperweight at work... the back end of a cast 2.0 rod that we found hiding under my alternator...
scooterforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 12:07 AM   #4
Jasper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80136
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Saugus, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Ford F-150
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterforever View Post
I have a nice paperweight at work... the back end of a cast 2.0 rod that we found hiding under my alternator...
nice!

ive got the whole block, unless i decide to pull my broken piston out of cylinder 1.
Jasper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 02:27 AM   #5
Wrx1234
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142341
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago NW Suburbs, IL
Vehicle:
2004 2.5L GT30rd WRX
SRR

Default

Its so true... i've spent about 3 grand or so (on exhaust, utec, injectors, pump, vf39, fmic, intake, protune, gauges, etx.) and im most likely about 100-120 whp over stock which isnt too bad...

But that's NOT considering the fact that it's a stock block and tranny that can blow ANY day. If either of that happened i would find myself "forced" to fly into the 5000 plus range for a shortblock, heads, or tranny. That's why i have 3grand set aside in a savings account for the the day this happens and im sure it will
Wrx1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 02:50 AM   #6
AnthonyA182
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 59990
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Hatch
DGM

Default

From my experience if you want to keep things reasonable and reliable, you should stick to bpu levels of modifications. If you need XXX amount hp to be satisfied, you need to drive a car that was designed and engineered with that hp level more in mind.

Most performance cars are overbuilt to some degree, but technology today makes almost unimaginable power levels seem very easy to obtain; provided that you have installed all the proper supporting mods. We ask an awful lot of our little 2.0 liter 4-bangers.

My car is stock, and eventually I will go stage II. Not really interested in tempting fate anymore than that.
AnthonyA182 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 03:14 AM   #7
kyoung05
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33430
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Foster City, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI
Galaxy Blue Pearl

Default

I always figured something like this was true. I always thought that stage 2 struck the "optimal" balance between cost and gain. I mean, I spent $80 on a used downpipe, had my catback custom made for $180, and bought a used Accessport for $325. I was pretty happy with it for a while. Then, I decided to get protuned, get ported manifolds, and an upgraded boost solenoid which set me back close to $900 (with labor) and netted me another 30whp. I always thought the leap to stage 2.5 was more cost-prohibitive since you're spending ~$800-1200 (turbo, injectors, pump) for another 30whp. However, once you're at that point, you can start with larger injectors and a bigger turbo, and the investment kind of balances itself out again, but like you said, it is not linear. I think the 300whp point is another plateau in the investment/return graph, since after that you'll probably need to start saving for a new tranny or get upgraded gears, etc. I don't know...I guess it's just better not to think about it.
kyoung05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 04:39 PM   #8
The Blue Pilot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101880
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: 2 Freeway
Vehicle:
2012 Mustang GT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyA182 View Post
My car is stock, and eventually I will go stage II. Not really interested in tempting fate anymore than that.
Hah, that's what I said back in the day.



If I had to do it all over again, I would buy a cheap car and build that up. That way, if I buy a car for around 4-5 g and spend another 5-6 g on it, I can have a car with all the horsepower I need and still have a very affordable car.

Heres how it started for me:

I bought a WRX for one reason and one reason only: the sound. I would go crazy every time I would hear her. So I bought the car along with an up/dp and catback exhaust. I decided not to stop there and get an intake along with getting everything tuned via AP.

Cost? Since I need to have everything brand spankin new from the factory (I have an issue with buying stuff used..) I ended up spending around $2.5k for a protuned stage 2 netting me 240/240 to the wheels. The 2.5 does include labor.

I see it as an ok investment, as if I decide down the line to switch to the new famous STi I can always part out the mods I have here and use it there. Seeing as how I netted around 60whp/60wtq over stock, I don't think I hurt myself too horribly much.
The Blue Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2007, 07:23 PM   #9
kyoung05
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33430
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Foster City, CA
Vehicle:
2015 STI
Galaxy Blue Pearl

Default

The funny thing with stage II is that it can cover such a vast area of mods. I mean, everything from a used $80 downpipe and a used COBB Accessport running a stage 2 map (or even cheaper, an XPT map for $35 + $90 cable) up to a car running an uppipe/turboback/headers/pnp td0t turbo/tgv deletes/bigger timc/etc running a brand new Accessport v2.0 and a stage II map all fall under "stage 2", so the $ spent can be anything from as little as $200 up to a few thousand. Having been an economics major, I am more about the "bang for the buck", and I choose to select my upgrade path on what I subjectively believe to offer the best gains for the $ spent. Of course, I recently had my car protuned, turned out to have slow spool, bought a new stock turbo, re-tuned, still having slow spool, and now I am planning on just upgrading to a vf39 setup so that path wasn't really "economic", but live and learn. I think being able to custom match your mods to your tastes, and going at your own pace is what makes it all worthwhile.

Everyone who has upgraded from a stage 2 setup probably thought they were going to stop at the stage 2 setup at some point.
kyoung05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It's not light, but...Hey! It's RWD! BhamRoadrunner Off-Topic 66 09-27-2006 07:51 AM
Is the relationship btwn TOE and CAMBER linear? And more susp. questions jsavage Brakes, Steering & Suspension 21 01-19-2006 02:43 PM
What's the relationship between ASA and BBS? Corn-Picker Tire & Wheel 1 07-05-2004 07:47 PM
Relationship Between Octane and MPG? Fingerbang Newbies & FAQs 4 08-01-2003 06:48 PM
Attn: Tuners - What is the relationship between timing advance & HP? zoomfactor Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 1 06-20-2003 02:26 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.