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Old 04-08-2007, 10:15 PM   #26
Black-STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobyless View Post
wow, those runners seem a bit long, what turbo are you running with it? I'm curious what your results will be
Borg Warner S200 twin scroll turbo w/ a 52lb compressor wheel and .76 exhaust AR...
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Black-STi View Post
Here is my new reverse intake manifold and FMIC, numbers and more testing to follow...

I like the look of that manifold, but i see two problems.
1. The angle of the throttle body makes me think it would be hard for the left and right cylinder banks to get the same amount of flow.
2. It looks like the front runners are way longer then the rear.

I'm not trying to criticize you, but maybe you can explain why you designed it that way.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RS_to_WRX_swap View Post
I like the look of that manifold, but i see two problems.
1. The angle of the throttle body makes me think it would be hard for the left and right cylinder banks to get the same amount of flow.
2. It looks like the front runners are way longer then the rear.

I'm not trying to criticize you, but maybe you can explain why you designed it that way.
The runners are already equal in length (the rear of the plenum sits higher than the front), a new redesigned plenum is going on the car later this week, it will be more "box" style for better air distribution to the cylinders...

Last edited by Black-STi; 04-09-2007 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:02 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-STi View Post
The runners are already equal in length (the rear of the plenum sits higher than the front), a new redesigned plenum is going on the car later this week, it will be more "box" style for better air distribution to the cylinders...
update on the new manifold? i'm excited to see if it's even nicer than the one above!
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Old 04-17-2007, 05:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
well, an update from the shop...we have my designed shortblock coming together (parts being manufactured) and a BC 2.71 coming to be tested. Both will get numerous cam setups and at least one non-factory manifold tested. I don't know much about this mani as I didin't design it and it is being lent to the shop for testing.
I'll be running all of the testing as a large lab and will have a report to follow.

I'm still working on my manifold design to add another variable to the testing.
Initial numbers are out, public release should be soon.
Everyone will want this manifold, they will complain about price, but it PERFORMS. It's probably way overkill for 90% of the people on these forums though, including myself, but we'll see what I can do about that later.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadScientist View Post
Just go get the USDM 2.5I manifold and make it work. No TGV's a much bigger plenum, and much better routing of the runners. It won't work with a TMIC though.


TMS
You mean like this.







XX Tuning modifies these 2.5L intakes to fit either a WRX or DBW STI throttle body. They use topfeed injectors. The real gains from this manifold are the air doesn't have to slam into a wall and them break off left and right to make it's way to the heads. These manifolds actually flow so well that the air doesn't start to heat up from friction until the bend just before the heads.

Last edited by Defiantspaz; 04-28-2007 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SparkysJDMSpeedWagon View Post
update on the new manifold? i'm excited to see if it's even nicer than the one above!
yup, the new one is on the car and intial dyno runs looked really good. I had two unseated PE injectors that dont seem to want to seat properly after several attempts. I am switching over to modified stocks so we can continue the dyno testing...I'll post more when I have some more info.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:07 PM   #33
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that's a pretty sweet setup...
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:07 PM   #34
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here's one that we are currently prototyping. We should have some initial power numbers within a few weeks. We are going to be selling it with a modified intercooler pipe as we moved the throttle body back a good amount. It will be able to be flipped if the customer wants..

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Old 04-18-2007, 06:44 AM   #35
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Tomei is currently working on a new intake manifold. I saw it at the STi/EVO Hyper Meeting; it looked damn nice! Except the prize tag was something outrageous I want to say.

Picture
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Black-STi View Post
yup, the new one is on the car and intial dyno runs looked really good. I had two unseated PE injectors that dont seem to want to seat properly after several attempts. I am switching over to modified stocks so we can continue the dyno testing...I'll post more when I have some more info.
Any pics of the new design?
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Old 04-19-2007, 12:12 PM   #37
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BUMP I want one!
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:28 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Nilesh View Post
Any pics of the new design?

it actually looks very similar on the outside. The back of the plenum is more "rounded" now...most of the new design changes were made inside of the plenum which you cant see. waiting now for the new aquamist nozzles so I can run direct port alky injection, should be here next week then can get the car on the dyno again.
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:11 PM   #39
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sick...i want one! how much are we looking at though?
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:13 PM   #40
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Might as well throw my sword in the fire.

ITBs under each manifold:





Bill
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:38 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Might as well throw my sword in the fire.

ITBs under each manifold:





Bill
mmmm sex; impressive

hypothetically with all the work you've put into it, how much harder would it be to make that a twin turbo set up with a pair of td04's or something small like that?
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Might as well throw my sword in the fire.

ITBs under each manifold:





Bill
looks VERY similar to the setup on the Jun Hyper Lemon GDB. Where'd you get that done, how much did it cost you, and whats the rest of your setup like?
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Old 04-21-2007, 01:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Might as well throw my sword in the fire.

ITBs under each manifold:





Bill
Very unique setup, looks awesome!! Any more pics/info on the setup?
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilesh View Post
Very unique setup, looks awesome!! Any more pics/info on the setup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalboy40 View Post
Where'd you get that done, how much did it cost you, and whats the rest of your setup like?
He designed it all himself - see here. Even more impressive now, eh?
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:42 PM   #45
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Old 04-23-2007, 06:17 PM   #46
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Design is bit from APS... They will soon have a kit like that out. It is in test form right now. Im sure you can find a shot of it on their website.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:52 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by adofly View Post
that looks like a V-mount.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:12 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
Design is bit from APS... They will soon have a kit like that out. It is in test form right now. Im sure you can find a shot of it on their website.
He did not copy it from APS. He saw it on the JUN Hyper Lemon car and tried to buy it, but they wouldn't sell it to him, so he made his own. ****ing cool.

Last edited by wrxfactor; 04-27-2007 at 10:30 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:38 PM   #49
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Dentsport is a top notch shop in every aspect and incredible fabricators too. That manifold pictured above, however, I am not crazy about the design at all. They have done incredible designs on other projects, but this is not one of them (IMO). They also have a new Subaru design IIRC out.

I spent about 100hrs researching intake manifold design before I even started my project above so I have acquired a little knowledge on the subject. I do not claim to be an expert, but I feel I have put more time than most into this subject. I am sure there are things that DS does not like with my design, but there are different approaches to everything. That manifold may make good HP too, but from what I've read, I think there are things that could be improved.

I wish I had my exact calculations still ref exact #s, so bear with me.

First, the DS runner length is too short. Theirs looks to be about 10" (including TGVs, head port, and 3" runner length elbow) This shifts the 3rd order resonance (what most people use to design runners) power band up too far in the RPMs (for me). From my calculations, you want about 8-8.5" CL distance (not string measured) of runner on top of the TGVs. This gives a total runner length around 14-14.5" (valve to port) which puts tuned RPMs at 5500 (3rd order) with (4th) and (5th) at lower spool RPMs 3K & 4K.

This runner effect (Helmholtz resonance) is not to be underestimated as it increases the charge air pressure density (& hp) by a significant amount in these RPMs. This is why you cannot just design for optimum flow, as the cylinders only need "bites" of air and you must provide the most dense air at the right time.

This is a very good link on the subject:
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ionsystems.pdf

2nd, The plenum volume is tiny. OEM manifold tiny. This will also hurt top end power because there is not a reserve of air to supply the engine on intake stroke. The plenum acts as an air capacitor to supply the engine quickly with air that is just above the runner. Subaru engines also require BIG plenums with respect to other cars because both cylinders on each bank fire simultaneously. This puts a big, momentary demand of air on separated plenums (like mine, JUNs, & DS). There is a point of diminishing returns on plenum size however and the larger the plenum the less throttle response because your throttled volume increases.

I have each of my plenums around 2.5l for a total plenum volume of 5l for a 2.5l engine. Having ITBs under the plenums allows me to run very large plenums without any of the negative affects because my throttled volume is still extremely small (<.25l) under the ITBs.

One area that I did not design very well is my plenum "ceiling" face. A flat "ceiling" face (face opposite runner port entries) reflects the sound waves better back down the runners and thus has a greater tunned effect. My round plenums are cheap however, and you must ultimately be able to build your nice manifold out of easily acquirable materials.

I would also put velocity stacks in any manifold as they really improve airflow.
www.velocityofsound.com is a great place to get these in many sizes.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:50 PM   #50
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This is the best manifold design I have seen by far on a Suby (cosiecovert) and the results prove this. This guy really knows what he is doing (car runs 9s).

Things that are great about this:

1. Runner length He looks to be running around 12" or so, but revs high enough to justify it (I don't)
2. High injector location. This really helps increase HP in high RPM because it gives fuel more time to atomize in the high velocity air. F1 cars have injectors outside of the intake ports FYI (kind of a fire hazard though)
3. Big plenum volume
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