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Old 03-25-2007, 01:23 PM   #1
Gfunk720
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Default Injector Size Question- FP EVOIII16g

I've been trying to calculate what size injectors I am gonna need for this new turbo and have a few questions. Just need some help deciding on whether or not to go for the 560's or 650's...

1. What is the system fuel pressure at the stock fuel rails? I was unable to find this info after searching for a while...

2. I have read of big16g owners running 650cc's and only seeing 50% idc. This is suggesting to me that some pinks or stock 06 injectors may be sufficient for the turbo

3. I was also thinking about modding some stock injectors, but is it even worth it after paying for the injectors/flowtesting/ cleaning? At that point, I could probably buy some used 560's

Can anyone help me out with this? Thoughts/Suggestions/Questions welcome


Thanks
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:28 PM   #2
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Really depends on what AFRs you are shooting for. I hit 60% IDC with modded stockers at 810cc and a VF39 and the AFR at redline was 10.8:1. Same turbo on a STI with stock injectors at 550cc hit 97% IDC at a redline AFR of 11.5:1 (96 octane tune). 650s should be enough for a 16G but you won't have IDCs in the 50% range.
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:17 PM   #3
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650's
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Old 03-25-2007, 04:06 PM   #4
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i'm running pinks. i have an IDC of 69%
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Old 03-25-2007, 05:40 PM   #5
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Gonna be shooting for a 11:1 afr, and probably between 18-20psi on 93. Hoping to have somewhere around 300whp when its all said and done

So it seems 650cc+ is really the way to go?

Taerron- Care to elaborate a little more on your setup and tune?
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Old 03-25-2007, 06:14 PM   #6
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helix up pipe
B&B catted dp
cat back
turboxs hyperflow tmic
evo III 16g
sti pinks
walboro fuel pump

my wastegate isn't doing so well, i can't boost past 15psi. might have to adjust the wg arm to reach target boost. IDC's were logged during a road tune at 69.66%
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Old 03-25-2007, 06:39 PM   #7
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Talking to your tuner and reading the Injector FAQ will net you your answers.
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Old 03-25-2007, 07:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Talking to your tuner and reading the Injector FAQ will net you your answers.
Unabomber, I read the injector Faq and tried using the injector calculator with varied success. Thats why I was wondering what the system fuel pressure is, to enter into the calculator(43psi if my research is correct) which was not in the FAQ

I have yet to talk to my tuner, as I just purchased the turbo yesterday. The more I research, it seems that 650cc+ injectors are really what I need for this particular application
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:10 AM   #9
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I'm running Deatschwerk's 650's with my super 16g. I wouldn't say less than 650's.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:03 AM   #10
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...I was maxing pinks with my 16g.....id get at least 650's
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taerron View Post
i'm running pinks. i have an IDC of 69%


with a 16g????



d0000d...turn up the boost...or
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:34 AM   #12
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if you read the other post, i mentioned that i was having wastegate issues.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:31 AM   #13
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So, according to the injector calculator on Deatschwerks site I need some 750cc injectors to only hit 80% IDC's. The calculator in the injector FAQ is also coming up with about 750cc's as well...

Imputs:
Target crank hp: 380
# of injectors: 4
BSFC: .6
Max IDC: 80%
System Fuel Press: 43 PSIG

Everyone is saying that 650's should be fine, but the calculator seems to want something bigger. Most vendor packages for 16g's come with a 650cc injector, and I would think that would be big enough. Thanks for all the imput everyone.

Taerron- Is that on 91 or 93 octane? I think once you get that boost up into the target area you are going to be seeing much higher IDCs. If its just a matter of adjusting the wastegate arm, that takes like 5 minutes!
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:48 AM   #14
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Injector calculators are pretty conservative. They are good to get a ballpark number for those who have no idea on what size is needed. Many injectors can be safely ran higher than 80% duty cycle. I would always revert to what your tuner suggests, and we would suggest 650's.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:37 AM   #15
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I orderd the TD05H-16G, and deadbolt recommended at least 600cc injectors. I currently have the STi pinks, but will be installing a set of 650cc injectors when I put the new turbo in.
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taerron View Post
if you read the other post, i mentioned that i was having wastegate issues.
...so STOP posting in threads and polluting them with garbage
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Old 03-26-2007, 12:16 PM   #17
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take your own advice. you had absolutely nothing to contribute at all except to ask why i'm not runnning higher boost. worthless post just like this one
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:00 PM   #18
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modded stockers 800-820cc will cost you 75 bucks and 3 minutes with the dremel....end thread

best part is they are cake to tune, shoot for the price of purchased injectors get two sets pick the four you like best mod them all then sell the second set and you have just upgraded your injectors for free...
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:50 PM   #19
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Wouldn't you want them cleaned/flowtested before just throwing them back on? I'm inexperienced with injectors, but is there a way to ascertain which ones are the closest in flow rate by just looking at them? If you suggest buying 2 sets, at asy $75-80 each, mod them, then send them all to be cleaned/tested, at $60/set, you still save money over even stock '06 injectors.
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:44 PM   #20
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even if you clean and flow test them youre looking at like 150 for the set...

you dont need to do that, they are gonna flow what they flow, theres not much one can do....cleaning helps a bunch and the real benefit to that is to make sure they arent leaky or anything but ....

you are probably sitting on a set right now, so why not do this, you and all your friends chip in and buy a set of blues, one person mod them then send them out then get them back swap em in and pass to the next guy, at the end selll all your pinks/other injectors and everyone get better injectors for probably free maybe even make a profit like me, sold my pinks for 250 bought and flow tested my injectors for total cost of 135 so i made 115 bucks,....plus best part is they are easily tunable and flow like crazy, youll almost never max those out on a bugeye until you swap engines....

ps the evo3 can flow, im gonna be running about 23-25 psi in midrange and its gonna need that flow, i can almost guarantee itd max out 650s or get darn close....pinks are maxed by 5x00 rpms i think
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taerron View Post
take your own advice. you had absolutely nothing to contribute at all except to ask why i'm not runnning higher boost. worthless post just like this one
I am NOT an idiot, though.....
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:52 PM   #22
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For $60, I would send them out to get tested and cleaned. Its always good to know which ones flow the most too, so then you can put them in the leanest cylinders. But does hacking the end of the injector off affect the spray pattern? I read the modded injector thread, but all it says is the spray pattern is fine...

I think I will probably end up going with some modded stockers or atleast some 650-750's.

Spoolin- That sounds all good, except none of my friends are running stock blues. I am not above spending $200 bucks to make the modded stockers, as some 750cc's are gonna cost me $350 minimum. I am just a little skeptical about cutting the ends off of a set of $100 injectors, even if it is extremely straight forward.

Scotty- I understand your frustration, but try not to worry about it. Even irrelevant information helps in ways. If he was hitting 70% IDC's at 15psi, there is no way those things are gonna flow enough at 20psi....so in a way, it did help a little
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:09 PM   #23
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spray patterns is cone as opposed to mist, negibly different, some argue better some argue worse, factof the matter hundreds of people are running them and they work beautifully....

you should be able to find stock injectors for 50-65 bucks cutting the ends takes all of 3 minutes and viola 800-820 cc injectors, send em out to get tested costs another 60-100 depending where....

i personally know of over 10 people ranging from stock to stage 4/5 all running the modded blues and none have issues....

you do realize that most companies that are selling you bigger injectors take stock blues and remove the ends caps light we do they just charge you more, i can name a few off hand but thats not my place to say, but they are big companies....its your money, spend it how you will, im just showing you equal goodness for a lot less money, blaze your own path, no matter what i support my fellow enthusiasts, i just try to help them out when i can...

oh and just fyi youre gonna be running a similar setup to me

blouch evo316g
ur up tial 38mm ewg vta
hks dp/tbe
ebay fmic w/reversed piping, aps dual vent bov
modded stockers, walbro pump
perrin cai, perrin/samco hoses inlet etc
koyo race rad
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoolinPA View Post
spray patterns is cone as opposed to mist, negibly different, some argue better some argue worse, factof the matter hundreds of people are running them and they work beautifully....

you should be able to find stock injectors for 50-65 bucks cutting the ends takes all of 3 minutes and viola 800-820 cc injectors, send em out to get tested costs another 60-100 depending where....

i personally know of over 10 people ranging from stock to stage 4/5 all running the modded blues and none have issues....

you do realize that most companies that are selling you bigger injectors take stock blues and remove the ends caps light we do they just charge you more, i can name a few off hand but thats not my place to say, but they are big companies....its your money, spend it how you will, im just showing you equal goodness for a lot less money, blaze your own path, no matter what i support my fellow enthusiasts, i just try to help them out when i can...

oh and just fyi youre gonna be running a similar setup to me

blouch evo316g
ur up tial 38mm ewg vta
hks dp/tbe
ebay fmic w/reversed piping, aps dual vent bov
modded stockers, walbro pump
perrin cai, perrin/samco hoses inlet etc
koyo race rad
Nice setup, my good friend is also running modded stockers on his 16g setup with no issues. It really seems the most logical decision, especially based on how expensive aftermarket ones are. The benifit of the aftermarket ones is that you just pop them in and voila! Buying and servicing some injectors may take some time, but seem to be worth it

So did you just use a dremel with a cutting wheel? It just seems tooeasy to work!

Any #'s from your setup?
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
I am NOT an idiot, though.....
Obviously that alone gives you the right to be a hypocrit! :rolleyes


Im running Modified stockers on my Normal 16G hitting 300 whp. If you can find a set of modded stockers and flow test them you should be fine.

Id say 650 would be plenty but Id push for 750+ honestly as you can also prepare for future mods such as EWG or higher boost.

Have fun with the 16G. I absolutely love mine and the power it gives. Paired with the RA gears its a very quick responding setup and very smooth to drive.
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