Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday March 4, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-09-2001, 01:46 PM   #1
ChrisW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4181
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: keeping santa cruz weird
Vehicle:
2003 Lancer Evo 8
It's Blue, ok?

Question autox competition tires, Opinion wanted.

Ok,

I am on a limited budget this year... This past slush series I have run on Kumo V700s. For now that's my preffered tire, I can't afford hoosiers.

Here's the question. I need a low cost tire that is good for autox that has similar grip levels to the Kumos. My choices are

1) Another set of Kumos V700 ~$144/tire. The prefered tire, I might need 2 sets to last the season, can't really afford 2 sets for this year.

2) Yokohama A032R ~$151/tire. I have been looking at this tire. I know of several individuals in my region that have run this tire to STS-R to a championship in that class. Any opinions?

3) ToyoŽ Proxes RA-1 you know, the tire they use for the Speedvision GT series? Basically it's a DOT competition tire. For what it's worth, the tread wear rating is lower than the Kumos! huh....

4) Falken AZENIS RS. From what they advertise, it's legal for the SCCA street tire class. If you run a Novice class in your region, get this tire... Otherwise, any opinions?

My primary concern is tire wear, followed by grip levels. I am sticking with a 225/50/16 because that is the right size to fit on the stock WRX rims, and my race rims for my Talon. Eventually, I am going to be switching from the talon to the WRX, so I have a limited tire choice at this point.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
ChrisW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2001, 03:49 PM   #2
p-car
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5534
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: OC
Vehicle:
2000 Cliffdiver RS

Default

I run a032's on my 911. Not as good grip as the Kumho's, but they should last you a season (you didn't say what a season means for you) so they're easier on the wallet.

I know someone who swears he got over 5,000 miles out of a set of ao32's on his street legal 911sc race car. He drove to the track, raced(time trials not auto-x) and drove home on them b4 he bought a trailer, so most of those miles were freeway driving from Long Beach to Button Willow or Palmdale - say, 500 freeway miles for every 100 track miles.

john

P.S. I'd be interested in hearing any feedback on the Falken's as a dirt cheap street tire.

Last edited by p-car; 12-09-2001 at 03:59 PM.
p-car is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2001, 05:22 PM   #3
jeddy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 7711
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Tucson, AZ
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver

Default

Well, i run Azenis' and love em for autocross, but they're too noisy and stiff for me on the street. I have another set of WRX wheels with RE92s that i normally use, in case i see a dirt road i want to go down. ;]

As for durability, the pair of Azenis that i just replaced lasted about 5 months (2-3 events per month, 4-10 runs per event). They were my daily driver tires for the first two months or so. I expect these to last till next summer, now that i know how to drive, hehe.

Note that other than the noise, they are awesome street tires, very smooth at high speed, and very grippy. You could probably get around the stiffness by running low pressure, but then you lose the handling benefits as the sidewall starts flexing.
jeddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2001, 05:27 PM   #4
Clegg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7761
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2008 VW R32 #3858
Blue

Default

I have seen a few people now use the Bridgestone RE730's with great results. ( DiscoStu on this forum... came in 1st at every autoX I have seen him at, and he runs them)

I am planning on going with them on the stock rims next summer.
Clegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2001, 06:48 PM   #5
Fitz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1426
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Boston, NH
Vehicle:
'07 335xi, '07 ZX6R
SV650 Race Bike

Default

I ran set of yoko AO32R's for this past season. They held up ok in regards to wear but from everyone that I talked to I should be running a Kumho or a Hoosier since they're a "stickier" tire.

Where are you folks pricing out your tires??

Thanks,
Fitz
Fitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2001, 09:09 AM   #6
LUME
Banned
 
Member#: 2641
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Dirt and Bird Poop

Default

I've run A032R's for autox and TT (and azenis for the street). The Azenis are NOT in the same catagory. Even though they are one of the grippiest street tires, they don't even compare to the A032R's. My A032R's have lasted 1.5 autox seasons and 4 time trials.

In fact, at the end of this season, we had 4 people driving my car at a SNJ region autocross trying to cord the tires.... we couldn't do it (total of 28 runs in one day... no cord....)

--Roy
LUME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2001, 12:40 PM   #7
ChrisW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4181
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: keeping santa cruz weird
Vehicle:
2003 Lancer Evo 8
It's Blue, ok?

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by LUME
I've run A032R's for autox and TT (and azenis for the street). The Azenis are NOT in the same catagory. Even though they are one of the grippiest street tires, they don't even compare to the A032R's. My A032R's have lasted 1.5 autox seasons and 4 time trials.

In fact, at the end of this season, we had 4 people driving my car at a SNJ region autocross trying to cord the tires.... we couldn't do it (total of 28 runs in one day... no cord....)

--Roy
Well, the A032R's look great on the wear & tear, but how was the grip levels in an autox?
ChrisW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2001, 05:46 PM   #8
LUME
Banned
 
Member#: 2641
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Dirt and Bird Poop

Default

Not terrible... I'll rate the autox tires like this:

hoosier
kuhmo victoracer
a032r
bfg g-force r1

with the hoosiers being the best and the r1's being the WORST (and I stress worst). If you are planning to be very competitive, then a032s are not for you, however:

Jeff Lloyd piloted my bone stock RS to a G-stock victory over several highly regarded drivers in nationally competitive Type R's running hoosiers in one Philly region event.... so if you're good, the a032r's are good enough...

--Roy
LUME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 12:32 AM   #9
imprezawrxsti.com
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 9581
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2004 STi Blue/Gold
00 Impreza RS, BRP

Default

I have driven all of these tires on my car except RE-730's which I drove on another's car.
I will now rank them in order of how I like them, best first:

Kumho Victoracer
Yokohama A520
Bridgestone RE-730
Kumho Ecsta 711
Re-92's (only if I HAVE to)

My Yoko's have done great three events on them so far and 50 laps, my Kumho Victoracers lasted 13 events (3-4 runs/event) and 100 laps, the RE-730's I only drove twice, the 711's heated up way too much and got greasy, and RE-92's just plain flat out suck.

Come Spring, I am thinking of going to 17" wheels and Falken Azenis or the new Kumho STS tire. I want to go to 17's for the contact patch and the future. I have heard the new Kumho will kick some ass, with the absolute MINIMUM treadwear rating for STS. Maybe the cheater tire everybody in STS has been waiting for..

JJ
www.imprezawrxsti.com
All STi, All The Time
imprezawrxsti.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 02:44 AM   #10
Austin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by LUME
and the r1's being the WORST (and I stress worst).
Why? They look to have a good tread pattern with large blocks on the outside, strong sidewalls, good compound... Do they just not stick?
Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 04:21 AM   #11
NasaWRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12578
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Manalapan Nj
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
Aspen White

Default Tires

I have had experience w/ the azenis and they are a great tire. However If I had to suggest a tire for autox and road coarses is the BFG KDW. I had those on my rex and they were great tires. I still use them as race tires on my stock wheels
NasaWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 09:05 AM   #12
LUME
Banned
 
Member#: 2641
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Dirt and Bird Poop

Default

The tread pattern on the R1's is merely a legal formality. It doesn't do anything and will be gone after one autox. The R1 compound is terrible. It requires a TON of heat to reach full "grippiness", and even then it doesn't compare to the other R compounds.

As for the KDW, I would go with the KD first.... more contact patch.

--Roy
LUME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 09:18 AM   #13
Orion
Got the F out
Moderator
 
Member#: 4797
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: central ohio
Vehicle:
01 01 RS, 00 RS
2008 WRB FSXT 5mt

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by NasaWRX
I have had experience w/ the azenis and they are a great tire. However If I had to suggest a tire for autox and road coarses is the BFG KDW. I had those on my rex and they were great tires. I still use them as race tires on my stock wheels
I'll have to disagree here. I have KDW's on my car for everyday driving and AutoX. I've run 3 events on them and this last Sunday I ran a friends WRX auto wagon with Azenis. On the track, there's no comparison. The Azenis had much more grip.
I definitelty wouldn't want the Azenis for everyday driving (lots of rain in Winter and Spring in Houston), but I'de seriously consider them for the ST class I'm in (we have 7 regional-only ST classes, for Divisionals I'll be in SM)
Next event I will have the same Azenis tires we ran on his car on my car, so I'll have a little better data to make a decision...
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 10:12 AM   #14
ColinL
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 114
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT
Vehicle:
'03 Evo, Rice White
'01 Erion CBR 929

Default

LUME, actually my biggest complain about the g-Force R1 is that they are hard to drive. unpredictable breakaway characteristics.
ColinL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 06:24 PM   #15
Austin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7089
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Western Wa
Default

I did around 20 events last year on a set of 17" S-02pp's. Since they're basically dead, I bought some 16" BFG R1's... Are the R1's so crappy that I'm gonna notice lower cornering speed limits compared to s-o2's, or are they just crappy compared to all the other dedicated autox tires being discussed here?

Also, how unhealthy for an R1 would driving ~30 miles to the track be?
Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 06:38 PM   #16
ColinL
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 114
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT
Vehicle:
'03 Evo, Rice White
'01 Erion CBR 929

Default

no, the g-Force R1 is much grippier than an S-02. much firmer sidewalls too. you might find it hard to know where the limits are, that's all.

and ~30 miles is OK. just watch the treadwear (especially if you don't have ABS or disable it for some reason) and bring street tires with you when they're near worn out.
ColinL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2001, 06:48 PM   #17
ChrisW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4181
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: keeping santa cruz weird
Vehicle:
2003 Lancer Evo 8
It's Blue, ok?

Default My $0.02 on BFG g-Farce R1 tires

These tires suck so bad that I never want to put those POS tires on my car ever again. I actually debated putting the stock re-92's back on because the grip levels were so inconsistant with those g-farces that you could not predict what the tire was going to do. One minute the tire is perfect, the next it's greasy:monkey:

If you think your doing good with the G-farces, get a set of kumos and you will be at least 3-4 seconds faster, with Hoosiers, expect more time savings, but I have not used Hoosiers yet.


So no one has tried the Toyo's? Otherwise it looking more like the A032R.

Thanks for all the responses
ChrisW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 09:18 AM   #18
LUME
Banned
 
Member#: 2641
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Dirt and Bird Poop

Default

g-farces.... thats classic...
LUME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 12:08 PM   #19
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

First of all, Chris, check the Tire Rack for better tire pricing. The V700s in 225/50-16 or $129 per tire (or were you adding in $15 for heat cycling?).

What about the new Kumho ECSTA V700? Tire Rack has them now. The new design addresses a lot of the weak points of the original V700 - about 4-4.5# lighter per tire, better grip, and equal or better wear characteristics. They're still heavier than the Hoosiers, and still don't have quite as much grip as the Hoosiers, but they'll last a heckuva lot longer and they're way cheaper. Basically, it sounds like Kumho made the budget auto-x tire even better - heck, it's even $1 cheaper in your size!

As for the BFG R-1s, it seems to be a love/hate tire. I've never driven on them myself, so I can't give any personal inputs. But, I've met guys at auto-x and track events who love them, and I've met guys who hate them. In both cases I'm talking about experienced drivers who have driven on other R-compound tires and therefore have something to compare to. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the R1 has been discontinued, so availability might not be that great.

For those who have mentioned street tires (RE730s, Azenis, KDWs, etc) - there's no comparison. ChrisW's initial post said, "I need a low cost tire that is good for autox that has similar grip levels to the Kumos." (emphasis added) The Azenis has pretty damn good grip for a relatively inexpensive street tire, but even it can't touch a V700 or A032R. The RE730s and KDWs aren't even in the same zip code, let alone the same ballpark.

If your primary concern is tire wear, followed by grip level, you've got a tough choice. Both the A032R and (from what I've heard) the Toyo RA-1 are somewhat less grippy than the Kumhos, but they also have somewhat better wear characteristics. I think the Toyos cost about the same as the Kumhos, while the Yokos are $20+ more per tire. That's kind of a toss up. Personally, I'd stick with what I know - if you know and like the Kumhos, stay with them.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 12:49 PM   #20
G2
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5559
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Northern Cali, USA
Vehicle:
1963 Schwinn
Sky Blue Pearl-metallic

Lightbulb

Toyo Prox RA-1's!!!
Here's why...firend of mine did a little testing at Sear's Point here in Cali. He ran Kumho's, Falken's & Hoosier's in a test for Falken Tires, who were trying to debate bringing over their comp tires in Aug 2000...
These tests were done in a 2000 SCCA Show Room Stock Civic Si, but my buddy also runs in World Challenge in a different car, so this wasn't a rookie.

Results:

well he ran decent times on full tread kumho's, but they started to chunk! (too soft...Note: Victor Racers only come in one compound for AutoX & Road Race, which is VERY BAD for tire wear on road courses...TOO SOFT, they'll come appart)

Then he ran the Hoosier's got a little better 0.2-0.3 sec faster, but the Hoosier's have Nylon cores to save weight, so they flatspot EASY!

Falken's were next, Faster by almost 1 sec per lap, but he said they're hard to know when you're at the limit (he felt the car slip a few times when he was REALLY pushing it.

Then back to a set of shaved Kumho's...better than the non-shaved set (less chunking) but still not as fast as any of the others. Plus he said they got kinda "greasy" feeling when really hot (slippery) .

Then, just to see where he was, my friend asked them to time him on a set of 4 year old Toyo RA1's...which he used as a test session set, well...he ran 3.5 to 4.0 sec FASTER!!!...yes that is 3-4 SECONDS, NOT TENTHS faster!

The Falken guys were BLOWN away, and they all had a laugh...

needless to say, the RA1's are sticky til the END...know from 12 hour enduro's & having the driver pull in on the cords, and still placing 1st & 2nd in class.

FYI on the Yok's; the tread has a good life, but not as soft as the others in question...but most wear life.

I hope my rant helps.
G2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 01:41 PM   #21
Gary (gg)
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 179
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Wichita, KS
Vehicle:
98 2.5RS
Rally Blue

Default

Chris, Be wary of people giving tire advice and never have ran on R tires. I have used A-032R's, G-Force R1's, Falken Azenis's, A008RS's, Michelin Pilots, Yokohama Nexus on the 2.5Rs autoxing at different levels of competition. I can tell you from experience that there is a performance gap between R-tires and street tires. Generally, R-tires on a stock class car is faster than STS cars. From what you are wanting, go with the Kuhmo Ecsta V-700. That seems to fit your needs better. If you are on stock struts, go with the 205/45R16. If you have stiffer ones, go with the 225/50R16. Make sure you get an alignment that maxes out the negative camber in the front and be sure to flip the tires on the rim if one side looks more worn out than the other. I can't help with tire pressures though.
Gary (gg) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2001, 07:19 PM   #22
Tony
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 287
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD.
Vehicle:
2005 9-2X Aero
Desert Silver

Default

Pat Olsen Wrote:
Quote:
The new design addresses a lot of the weak points of the original V700 - about 4-4.5# lighter per tire, better grip, and equal or better wear characteristics.
The word I got from the Kumho tech support guy was that wear was going to be worse. Basically they made a compromise between the old V700 and a Hoosier type tire. Lighter, grippier but wears quicker. I'll be using the old V700 next year since I value life over competitivness.

Tony
Tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2001, 08:08 PM   #23
Coati
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9106
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Wanted a Levorg
Vehicle:
2015 FXT - DGM
2008 STI - Aspen White

Default

Okay, slight modification to the previous selection criteria:

Novice driver, stock class wagon with stock struts.
Tires will be driven ~25mi to and ~25mi back from the auto-x each time.
Would like to get 1 full season of autocrossing out of the set.
Unless there are real extremes, price is not a factor.

Falken? Yoko? Kumho? xxx?

Also, I noticed some other sizes besides 205/55 were recommended. Any thoughts on that?
Coati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2001, 10:54 PM   #24
ColinL
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 114
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT
Vehicle:
'03 Evo, Rice White
'01 Erion CBR 929

Default

if price isn't a factor, why worry about getting a season out of a set?

anyway, unless you'll do open track or a whole bunch of autocrosses a set of kumho victoracer v700s would last the season. well a Kansas season-- in SD you could probably have an autocross in January. they're also fine for considerable street driving, 30-60 miles per event is no sweat. if you had piles of money they'd actually make an excellent street tire.

I don't know about the new ecsta V700, we'll find out this year assuming they finally got the production sorted out.

225/50-16s definitely fit on stock class WRX sedans, I've seen it. I don't know about your wagon, the fender openings are a bit smaller.
ColinL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2001, 11:20 PM   #25
p-car
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5534
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: OC
Vehicle:
2000 Cliffdiver RS

Default

Coati - make sure that running R compound tires won't bump you out of stock class in San Diego.

I'd recommend learning to drive on street tires if this is your first season. Something like Bridgestone S03's work well.

Race rubber sticks well and you will be doing yourself a disservice not to improve your car handling skills at the lower speeds on regular tires first. Especially if you plan to do big track events in the future - having your car break loose at 100mph is exciting when you've practiced at lower speeds, it can be dangerous if you haven't.

john
p-car is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
goodyear eagle f1 ds-g3, WR vs YR rated tires, opinions wanted jkoc Tire & Wheel 12 08-19-2006 09:06 AM
Team AutoX competition spazegun2213 Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 55 02-16-2006 01:35 PM
SubyDude Autox Competition leecea Motorsports 4 05-14-2004 08:48 PM
Tire opinion wanted - Dunlop / Yokohama Cynic Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 03-25-2001 04:34 PM
Performance Winter Tire Opinions Wanted Bob O Brakes, Steering & Suspension 15 03-02-2001 08:33 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.