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Old 04-09-2007, 12:44 AM   #1
rlavalle
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Member#: 18384
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle 'burb (Kirkland)
Vehicle:
2004 STi: 580 AWHP
Java Black Pearl

Default Hydra & AVCS

I'm trying to determine what do do with AVCS on my built motor:
EJ22T Bored & Sleeved to 2.5L
Kelford 10.7mm lift 272/274 AVCS cams
Ported V7 big port heads w/ 1mm larger valves

My concern is: how much AVCS advance can I run with this setup, and how should I control it?

I've heard a couple things about the Hydra concerning AVCS. Both that it doesn't use closed loop AVCS control and also that it does. I also heard that in the WRX, it's open loop and in the STi, it's closed loop. And also heard that the new version of the Hydra has true closed loop AVCS control...

So what's the real story? Phil, can you shed light on this?

I'm wondering if I should have just gone non AVCS. Sigh. When I drop the motor in, I'll leave the AVCS solenoids unplugged until I figure out which way to go.

Thanks!
Russ
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:13 AM   #2
keaniegenie
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Member#: 94494
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2005 Element 92x
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlavalle View Post
I'm trying to determine what do do with AVCS on my built motor:
EJ22T Bored & Sleeved to 2.5L
Kelford 10.7mm lift 272/274 AVCS cams
Ported V7 big port heads w/ 1mm larger valves

My concern is: how much AVCS advance can I run with this setup, and how should I control it?

I've heard a couple things about the Hydra concerning AVCS. Both that it doesn't use closed loop AVCS control and also that it does. I also heard that in the WRX, it's open loop and in the STi, it's closed loop. And also heard that the new version of the Hydra has true closed loop AVCS control...

So what's the real story? Phil, can you shed light on this?

I'm wondering if I should have just gone non AVCS. Sigh. When I drop the motor in, I'll leave the AVCS solenoids unplugged until I figure out which way to go.

Thanks!
Russ
Phil and I have talked a lot about AVCS. Everyone has their opinions to AVCS, but the two of us won't go without it.

As for tuning for AVCS, the two people you need to talk to about this is bboy and Phil. bboy (Trent) is a local Hydra user to us and started an entire thread regarding AVCS tuning. Do a search and you'll find it (it's in the main em forum, not this one).

That said, you can just have Phil tune the car. The nice thing about having one of the best tuners in the nation tune your car is you won't have to worry about how the Hydra controls AVCS. He tunes it, you don't worry about it.

And if you didn't know, he's in town right now. I don't know if your car is up and running, but you should at least make a trip to World One in the next couple of days before he leaves so you can meet him and chat with him about it. I'm sure he'd love to see your car.
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:33 PM   #3
rlavalle
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Location: Seattle 'burb (Kirkland)
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2004 STi: 580 AWHP
Java Black Pearl

Default

Thanks keaniegenie,

I found that thread... pretty cool! So it looks like the Hydra does utilize closed loop AVCS control on the STi.

Now my only remaining question (for this minute) is: How much AVCS advance is advisable with 10.7mm cams?

---------------
Speed Is Life
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:53 AM   #4
keaniegenie
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2005 Element 92x
Black

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlavalle View Post
Thanks keaniegenie,

I found that thread... pretty cool! So it looks like the Hydra does utilize closed loop AVCS control on the STi.

Now my only remaining question (for this minute) is: How much AVCS advance is advisable with 10.7mm cams?

---------------
Speed Is Life
I would probably ask that question on that thread if you don't get a response here.

Phil's in town at World One right now, so you can always stop by their shop.
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Old 04-17-2007, 05:02 PM   #5
rlavalle
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Member#: 18384
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Seattle 'burb (Kirkland)
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2004 STi: 580 AWHP
Java Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
If you have OEM clearance pistons then you can run 12 degrees safely if you have cams with 10.7 mm of lift and no built in advance. Keep in mind many aftermarket rods are actually shorter than stock increasing clearance. Usually the current crop of high lift intake cams don't like too much AVCS and I often back down until the engines revs nicely throughout the entire rpm range.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Added the quote above from Phil. I think the post was done during the time database information was lost, so it went away. Luckily, I still had the new post notice email.

Phil, will you be in the Seattle area again any time soon?

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:10 PM   #6
keaniegenie
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Member#: 94494
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Location: Seattle
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2005 Element 92x
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlavalle View Post
Added the quote above from Phil. I think the post was done during the time database information was lost, so it went away. Luckily, I still had the new post notice email.

Phil, will you be in the Seattle area again any time soon?

Thanks,
Russ
I heard that he is, but you better get a hold of him or someone at World One soon. His time slots fill quickly.
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Old 04-18-2007, 05:50 PM   #7
blowbyu24
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: PA / Element Tuning
Vehicle:
2005 STI.UR gt4088r
E85 pro comp sti

Default

hmmm this kinda sways me to run avcs....so many ppl say its over rated so i don't know....i just don't want the pistons to hit the valves...b/c i def. wouldn't have enough money to build another motor....what you guys think
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:58 PM   #8
keaniegenie
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2005 Element 92x
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blowbyu24 View Post
hmmm this kinda sways me to run avcs....so many ppl say its over rated so i don't know....i just don't want the pistons to hit the valves...b/c i def. wouldn't have enough money to build another motor....what you guys think
People who say it's over rated haven't driven their car when the avcs is disabled.

When I did my 2.5l swap, I didn't run AVCS at first. I later wired it in.

It made more a difference in bottom-end response and spool up than the extra .5l displacement.
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:26 PM   #9
blowbyu24
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Member#: 84482
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: PA / Element Tuning
Vehicle:
2005 STI.UR gt4088r
E85 pro comp sti

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie View Post
People who say it's over rated haven't driven their car when the avcs is disabled.

When I did my 2.5l swap, I didn't run AVCS at first. I later wired it in.

It made more a difference in bottom-end response and spool up than the extra .5l displacement.
i def believe it, well i ended up buying cosworth cams with avcs, so i am very happy to get everything in....thanks everyone for all the advice when coming to avcs and reading up on it
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