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Old 04-12-2007, 04:15 PM   #1
WRXTR
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Default TD05h 18g really too small?

Is the TD05h 18g too small for my 2.5L? The 18g and 20g seem to be the talk of the 2.5L community for bolt-on apps (non-STi). I have been told, "get the 20g" a time or two now, but I'm not sure I want to put additional stress on the drivetrain. I am wanting to have quick spool (relative to a bigger turbo) and conservative power as this will be on my dd. I'm not trying to break any records... just trying to pull some of the potential out of the 2.5. If the 18g will get me to 310-320 whp and 330-340ish tq, I'd be completely content until I've got another daily driver (another 4+/- years).

What turbo should I go with? BTW, doesn't necessarily have to be the 18 or 20g either. Thanks for your input in advance! -Jason
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:53 PM   #2
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The problem with the 18g on the 2.5 motor is it's not cost affective cause for about the same price you can get a larger turbo and make more power. With that said I noticed you have a wrx so the 18g would be a nice upgrade over the tiny stock turbo. I'm sure a TD06h-18g 8cm will get you the power/spool you want.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:16 PM   #3
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tdo5-18g to make the power that you want would be
pushing excess of 22 psi. but with the the 20g it could
be possible to achive the power that you want with less
boost. and when you wanted more power it would just
be a matter of retuning or tuning an additional map for
more power.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:11 PM   #4
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Sounds like you need a 19g (if such a thing existed)
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:22 PM   #5
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td05 20g
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Old 04-12-2007, 11:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sutter2k View Post
Sounds like you need a 19g (if such a thing existed)
no such thing
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:07 AM   #7
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PE1820 is about a 19G.
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Old 04-13-2007, 01:28 AM   #8
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Well, crap... did a bunch more reading today and I'm starting to lean toward a TD05h-20g 7cm^2 with a TD06 compressor housing. Smaller turbine wheel for faster spool (which is what I do not want to give up) and yet room for more hp/tq if I want to turn up the boost and run WI or meth. Any of you running this turbo? Your thoughts?
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:07 AM   #9
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I'm happy with my 18G. Spool is pretty insane for the power it puts out.
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Old 04-13-2007, 10:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXTR View Post
Well, crap... did a bunch more reading today and I'm starting to lean toward a TD05h-20g 7cm^2 with a TD06 compressor housing. Smaller turbine wheel for faster spool (which is what I do not want to give up) and yet room for more hp/tq if I want to turn up the boost and run WI or meth. Any of you running this turbo? Your thoughts?
I've thought about this one a bit too. The TD05 will spool very fast, but will die up top. Also, you will definitely have to think about boost creep (unless you do EWG).

Here's one on an STi: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1220627

Geoff at Gruppe-S also had one on his STi:http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...g#post13058102
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:02 AM   #11
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You can't have a TD05H-20g 7cm^2 with a TD06 compressor housing. Read what you wrote.. haha

Get a TD05H-20g with a 7cm^2 if you want to keep spool. Make sure the wastegate is ported out to control creep.

BTW: a 18G will meet your goals. TD05H-18G 8cm2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXTR View Post
Well, crap... did a bunch more reading today and I'm starting to lean toward a TD05h-20g 7cm^2 with a TD06 compressor housing. Smaller turbine wheel for faster spool (which is what I do not want to give up) and yet room for more hp/tq if I want to turn up the boost and run WI or meth. Any of you running this turbo? Your thoughts?
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumble View Post
You can't have a TD05H-20g 7cm^2 with a TD06 compressor housing. Read what you wrote.. haha

Get a TD05H-20g with a 7cm^2 if you want to keep spool. Make sure the wastegate is ported out to control creep.

BTW: a 18G will meet your goals. TD05H-18G 8cm2.
Sure you can... the "TD05h" refers to the turbine wheel. "TD06" refers to the compressor housing.

TD05h/20g with a TD06 compressor housing.

"Featuring the 44 lb/min compressor performance of the Mitsubishi 20G in a true TD06 compressor housing with custom wastegate actuator mounting, the WRX/STi TD05H-20G provides 440 HP potential in a custom performance bolt-on package. The TD06 20G compressor is paired with the Mitsubishi TD05H high flow turbine in 7cm2 nozzle area turbine housing to provide the fastest possible response characteristics. Standard wastegate actuator is calibrated at 9 PSI and optional upgrade actuators are available in incremental pressures from 10 PSI to 19 PSI. To maintain proper boost control, the TD05H-20G utilizes a ported turbine housing that is included in the price of the turbo. The WRX/STi TD05H-20G custom performance turbocharger is a direct bolt on upgrade shipped complete with coolant pipes and turbo oil drain tube installed and requires no modification to intake, exhaust, oil and coolant connections for installation."
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Old 04-13-2007, 06:22 PM   #13
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By far... Get the 20G with the 8cm and 6h wheel. It will actualy make more power down low then the 7cm and much more up top. You dont have to run a huge amount of boost to make good power on pump gas. 330 on 91 and 350 to 360whp on pump 93 with a solid and safe tune at a sane boost level. I recently tuned a slew of them and the trq loss down low over the stock turbo was nill. I never was a fan of the 18G on the 2.5 ltr motor. Its just not enough turbo. ITs ok if you use the 8cm housing. But wit the 7cm housing its just better off on the 2.0 engine.

Clark
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:43 AM   #14
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I wouldnt have mentioned anything but you mentioned you didnt want too much strain on the drivetrain.

That being said I feel the 18g w/ 7cm housing is an awesome upgrade. First off, the turbo alone is cheaper (850ish vs 1100ish). Secondly the supporting mods are ALOT cheaper. On a 20g I'd want a FMIC vs getting away with STI or bigger TMIC with the 18g. Then fueling, 18g on your car will work with the stock injectors with maybe a pump upgrade, the 20g is going to need both.

The 20g in most peoples opinions is a little much on the WRX drivetrain (transmission). While the 18g is a little more tame, and although a bad driver can just as easily break the box its less likely to gernade it at WOT.

I've driven both (20g STI and 06 WRX 18g) and the 20g lagged, which I haaaaaaaaaate. This was probably alot to do with the FMIC. While the 18g I drove had similar spool to stock, maybe 250-500 RPM later, on a TMIC. The 18g pulled GREAT, compared to stock anyway.

Dont get me wrong, the 20g was definately more powerful. But I'd definately take the trade off of driveibility and price vs brute power. But I like being able to step on it and the car get up and go.
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Old 04-14-2007, 01:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicX View Post
I wouldnt have mentioned anything but you mentioned you didnt want too much strain on the drivetrain.

That being said I feel the 18g w/ 7cm housing is an awesome upgrade. First off, the turbo alone is cheaper (850ish vs 1100ish). Secondly the supporting mods are ALOT cheaper. On a 20g I'd want a FMIC vs getting away with STI or bigger TMIC with the 18g. Then fueling, 18g on your car will work with the stock injectors with maybe a pump upgrade, the 20g is going to need both.

The 20g in most peoples opinions is a little much on the WRX drivetrain (transmission). While the 18g is a little more tame, and although a bad driver can just as easily break the box its less likely to gernade it at WOT.

I've driven both (20g STI and 06 WRX 18g) and the 20g lagged, which I haaaaaaaaaate. This was probably alot to do with the FMIC. While the 18g I drove had similar spool to stock, maybe 250-500 RPM later, on a TMIC. The 18g pulled GREAT, compared to stock anyway.

Dont get me wrong, the 20g was definately more powerful. But I'd definately take the trade off of driveibility and price vs brute power. But I like being able to step on it and the car get up and go.
You hit it on the head there! I called a very reputable shop in TX and we talked about each setup. Even though the 20g is only another $250ish, I would need other supporting mods and a ProTune. I already have the TMIC on the way, so all I'd need to buy is the fuel pump, then load the AP map for the 18g (free). Of course, I would eventually get a ProTune, but this way I'd literally bolt the parts on, load the map, and go have fun! It's settled then.
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Old 04-14-2007, 02:43 AM   #16
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I disagree on the supporting mods for the 20G. With simple injector/pump upgrade and stock TMIC or aftermarket TMIC you will still spool no later and make much more power with the 20G over the 18G. There is no reason to go with the 18G over the 20G unless you absolutely cannot afford the extra cost of the 20G.

C
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Old 04-14-2007, 11:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
I disagree on the supporting mods for the 20G. With simple injector/pump upgrade and stock TMIC or aftermarket TMIC you will still spool no later and make much more power with the 20G over the 18G. There is no reason to go with the 18G over the 20G unless you absolutely cannot afford the extra cost of the 20G.

C
You know more about tuning then I do, I wont argue that for a second.

But every TMIC 20g dyno chart I've seen is similar to an TMIC 18g. At least not even a 250 dollar difference....

Anyway like I said I like the 18g is less expensive it spools like a smaller turbo vs the 20g which spools like a larger turbo. Make decent power for the money. I prefer autox and the 2 20g STI i've driven would definately NOT work for me, even with the pre 07 6mt which have great gearing for the road IMO.

If I want big power I would skip the 20g altogether...
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Old 04-14-2007, 11:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
By far... Get the 20G with the 8cm and 6h wheel. It will actualy make more power down low then the 7cm and much more up top. You dont have to run a huge amount of boost to make good power on pump gas. 330 on 91 and 350 to 360whp on pump 93 with a solid and safe tune at a sane boost level. I recently tuned a slew of them and the trq loss down low over the stock turbo was nill. I never was a fan of the 18G on the 2.5 ltr motor. Its just not enough turbo. ITs ok if you use the 8cm housing. But wit the 7cm housing its just better off on the 2.0 engine.

Clark
clark,
do you feel an 18g or 20g is better matched for an A/T on the 2.5L? I was concerned about matching the 20g and it's lag with an 5EAT.
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Old 04-14-2007, 11:54 AM   #19
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Blouch 20G...and dont think twice about it
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ScoobyDooo View Post
Blouch 20G...and dont think twice about it
How's your spool compared to stock? Is this the TD05h or TD06h you have? What injectors and pump are you using? IWG or EWG? Sorry for the 20 questions; I just want to put a price list together to see which route is going to be better for me. I have a good idea on what the power difference will be between the two and like someone else said, I could always keep the boost lower for reliability if I went with the 20g. Damn... I feel like I'm with my wife trying to pick out paint colors!
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Old 04-14-2007, 06:12 PM   #21
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You're not talking about a big difference in turbos. Ultimately you're talking about a 50 cfm or less difference in flow (not even 10%). It's probably more important to pick the right exhaust housing (8cm for the 2.5L).

Ultimately you will be happy with whichever one you pick, as long as you don't fret over the decision forever beforehand - it's human nature. Debating about which one to pick for a week is not human nature - it's a curse of our society.
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Old 04-14-2007, 08:14 PM   #22
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On paper or on the bench you can compare all you want. But the 20G is the better choice or the 2.5. I cant say this enough. No extra lag to speak of and much more top end at a lower boost. I agree you cant go wrong with either.



C
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